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Will my budgie become untamed if i let his wings grow out?

Saya

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I clipped his wings while i was taming him and currently I am letting them grow out. He is not fully tamed though, he hand feeds and sits on my hand with millet but he does not know how to step up and i cannot take him out of the cage on my hand or a perch. In the past few days his flying has really improved and now he doesn't step up onto my hand anymore? I'm wondering if this is one of those up and down times that you go through while taming a budgie, or if it actually has something to do with the fact that he can fly now. Any advice or experience would be appreciated, thank you!!
 

saroj12

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doodoowmdeez

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I have 2 birds I rescued in the last 6 months. When they moved in they were both fully feathered for flight. With the new environment they'd scare easily and fly into everything so I made the decision to trim the wings. Both birds were much less active and outgoing afterwards. On the other side of the story my Tiel was not flight ready when I got her. Over the last 2 years I have not trimmed her wings at all. She has gone from a bird that sat around doing absolutely nothing to an extremely active bird that wanders the house looking for fun all 12 hours the birds are awake and out. I would say that a good portion of rambunctiousness comes with the freedom of wings.
 

JLcribber

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I clipped his wings while i was taming him
See this was the first mistake. Lets pretend to be the bird for a minute. You came to my house. You were scared to death in this brand new world and this big scary monster (you) "insists", no "demands" that I step on her. I don't know her, I don't trust her and why should I. She acts in a very predatory nature. Now you've handicapped the bird making it impossible for him to have any escape, choice or control over an already stressful situation. This is not taming. This is called "learned helplessness".

Establishing a trusting and "respectful" relationship with a bird requires you to "earn" it through positive reinforcement. This takes time and there is no shortcut. You earn friendship by "asking" your bird to do things. never "demanding". You offer "reward" as incentive to do these things. The bird must "want" to come to you because it's rewarding and they like it. Not because you insist on stepping up.

Give this a read. Very insightful and educational.
The Parrot Trust Account
 

Begone

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I agree with John.

I take my training to higher level too. I never tame training in cage. I train them outside the cage. To allowed them to fly away when they get scared it the best way to taming them.
Later when the bird trust you, you will notice that you have a very strong bond. Cutting wings will never do that, that is like John say only "learned helplessness".

This budgie was a rescue. It lived in a basement with no windows lightning and with cats for 2 years. (it lived with people the first weeks but they didn't like that the bird was messy and noisy) No food and not water every day.
It took me only some weeks to tame the bird, and what a great bond we got. So no matter what, all birds can be tamed.
 

Shinobi

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Wing clipping is a very contentious subject. But if you read a lot of posts on training, there is one common theme "don't force the bird". But by clipping the birds wings you're forcing it to interact with you, because as John said " you've handicapped the bird, making it impossible to for the bird to have any escape, choice or control of an already stressful situation.

You need to earn your bird's friendship and respect, not force it. Your bird has got back it's ability to escape, choose and control. I have read so many posts of parrots that were "so tame" when wing clipped that the owner let the flight feathers grow back in. Only to have the parrot become "so untamed". Why? because the parrot doesn't have to depend on the owner anymore. It can escape, choose and control it environment. John calls wing clipping "forced helplessness' I call it "forced dependence". either way it's the same thing.

I have target trained some of my birds in their cage because they focus better due to the fact they aren't scared like they are outside the cage. Once they have a bit more confidence. I proceed to training outside the cage.
Yes all birds can be trained, but not all people can train birds.
 

schnitzle

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What about this scenario?
We have very high ceilings, and I'm afraid while I'm training my budgie she/he will go up high and cling to the molding. I'm imagining scenarios like this where I won't have the leisure to wait for them to come down eventually. But if I have to get out a ladder and towel the bird to get it down I will certainly break our trust bond!
So I was thinking if it had clipped wings until it's first molt we would have had time to train and in the same senario a calm step up could be used instead.
Still not a good idea to clip? I would used positive training techniques to train step ups. Not chasing the bird around the cage.
 

Begone

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Still not a good idea to clip?
No, never IMO! In my country it isn't allowed to clip wings, and we don't have problem with taming our birds, I say the opposite, we have very happy and healthy birds.
Train in the evening 1 Hr before dawn. When the sun is down you can make the room almost dark and use a long branch to get your bird back in his cage.
 

Begone

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I have target trained some of my birds in their cage because they focus better due to the fact they aren't scared like they are outside the cage.
I have never had scared birds outside the cage, and the best part of taming birds outside the cage is that the bird is flying and get ridd of a lot of energy and will be more calmer after a while. (and then I train them)
To allowed them to have their cages as their own safe place is also something I find important. So when they get into the cage I never touch them, and it doesn't matter what bird it is and if they would have accept or perhaps even like it, I don't do it. Respect is something that makes a very strong and trusting bond. :)
 

Lady Jane

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Once you bird has the flight feathers the "tameness" will remain if you are friends and the bird trust you. Your bird will be healthier, happier and stronger for flying.
 

JLcribber

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We have very high ceilings, and I'm afraid while I'm training my budgie she/he will go up high and cling to the molding. I'm imagining scenarios like this where I won't have the leisure to wait for them to come down eventually. But if I have to get out a ladder and towel the bird to get it down I will certainly break our trust bond!
A broomstick will "shoo" them down without any fuss or trust breaking.

You're not getting it.

So I was thinking if it had clipped wings until it's first molt we would have had time to train and in the same senario a calm step up could be used instead.
You are still "forcing" him to comply, reward or not (not much different from me twisting your arm and then giving you a candy). Not earning his trust. Guess what's going to happen as soon as his wings grow back.
 

schnitzle

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No, never IMO! In my country it isn't allowed to clip wings, and we don't have problem with taming our birds, I say the opposite, we have very happy and healthy birds.
Train in the evening 1 Hr before dawn. When the sun is down you can make the room almost dark and use a long branch to get your bird back in his cage.
Thanks, that's good to hear!

A broomstick will "shoo" them down without any fuss or trust breaking.
Ok I imagined that "shooing" him with a stick would be just as scary, but it's good to hear otherwise. I have 12' ceilings and just know this scenario is in my future so I wanted to play devil's advocate.

You're not getting it.
You are still "forcing" him to comply, reward or not (not much different from me twisting your arm and then giving you a candy). Not earning his trust. Guess what's going to happen as soon as his wings grow back.
I'm getting it. I just wanted to know if the risk/benefit weighed differently in this case.
 

Saya

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See this was the first mistake. Lets pretend to be the bird for a minute. You came to my house. You were scared to death in this brand new world and this big scary monster (you) "insists", no "demands" that I step on her. I don't know her, I don't trust her and why should I. She acts in a very predatory nature. Now you've handicapped the bird making it impossible for him to have any escape, choice or control over an already stressful situation. This is not taming. This is called "learned helplessness".

Establishing a trusting and "respectful" relationship with a bird requires you to "earn" it through positive reinforcement. This takes time and there is no shortcut. You earn friendship by "asking" your bird to do things. never "demanding". You offer "reward" as incentive to do these things. The bird must "want" to come to you because it's rewarding and they like it. Not because you insist on stepping up.

Give this a read. Very insightful and educational.
The Parrot Trust Account
Um... I never made my bird step up on my hand or anything. I trimmed his wings so that 1 he wouldn't fly into the large mirror and 2 so he could sit and enjoy looking out the window, which he really does now, without getting hurt. I just kept my hand on the outside of the cage, left my hand on the inside with millet, and now he comes on my hand whenever he's hungry. I never forced him to do anything and he already knew how to fly when I got him, I guess what I did was basically a "baby clip" to let him learn windows and such. Im not insistent with my bird if that's what you're getting at.
 

Saya

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I have never had scared birds outside the cage, and the best part of taming birds outside the cage is that the bird is flying and get ridd of a lot of energy and will be more calmer after a while. (and then I train them)
To allowed them to have their cages as their own safe place is also something I find important. So when they get into the cage I never touch them, and it doesn't matter what bird it is and if they would have accept or perhaps even like it, I don't do it. Respect is something that makes a very strong and trusting bond. :)
how do you train your bird outside the cage? Mine are very comfortable coming out and they love to fly around and naw on branches and such. Do you have a bird training stand? Or do you train on top of the cage? I would love to train outside the cage but I have no idea where to start honestly
 

Saya

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I agree with John.

I take my training to higher level too. I never tame training in cage. I train them outside the cage. To allowed them to fly away when they get scared it the best way to taming them.
Later when the bird trust you, you will notice that you have a very strong bond. Cutting wings will never do that, that is like John say only "learned helplessness".

This budgie was a rescue. It lived in a basement with no windows lightning and with cats for 2 years. (it lived with people the first weeks but they didn't like that the bird was messy and noisy) No food and not water every day.
It took me only some weeks to tame the bird, and what a great bond we got. So no matter what, all birds can be tamed.
That's really impressive!! Wowy! How do you train your bird outside the cage? Do you have a special stand or do you train on top of the cage? I think my budgies are at the point where I should start training them outside the cage but I have no idea where to start.
 

AvianCrew

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Um... I never made my bird step up on my hand or anything. I trimmed his wings so that 1 he wouldn't fly into the large mirror and 2 so he could sit and enjoy looking out the window, which he really does now, without getting hurt. I just kept my hand on the outside of the cage, left my hand on the inside with millet, and now he comes on my hand whenever he's hungry. I never forced him to do anything and he already knew how to fly when I got him, I guess what I did was basically a "baby clip" to let him learn windows and such. Im not insistent with my bird if that's what you're getting at.
Birds know how to avoid glass. He doesn't need his wings clipped.
 

saroj12

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Can you remove the mirrors? And put curtains or blinds or nets on the window? It's up to you to make the environment safe for him.
 

MiniMacaw

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I haven't read through all the posts here yet, but I have three budgies. I let them out daily in a bedroom to fly. I got them with clipped wings from rescue however I let them grow out. They were terrified of me and everything while they were bumbling around with no flight feathers. Once they could fly they started landing near me, then on me. After only a few months they started landing on my hand and eating millet. I never actually trained "step up." I just let us all play together until I wasn't so scary and their curious nature took over. Here's my guy Maui right now. :) IMG_20170418_170802838.jpg
 
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