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Frazzled With Behavior: HELP BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND
- Thread starter Reggie
- Start date
ABA for birds?!?!?
I work with autistic kids and we have to fill out ABC data charts for tracked behaviors all the time so as I was reading your post I was thinking huh... that looks similar
I guess it is all the same... trying to look and see what might have caused the aggressions for (in this case) the nonverbal bird by looking at the environment around it.
It is exactly the sameABA for birds?!?!?
I work with autistic kids and we have to fill out ABC data charts for tracked behaviors all the time so as I was reading your post I was thinking huh... that looks similar
I guess it is all the same... trying to look and see what might have caused the aggressions for (in this case) the nonverbal bird by looking at the environment around it.
It really works. Some people get lost in the science but if someone is asking about keeping a journal of behavior than they are certainly of the mind to learn ABA for birds and love it I took a class on it that was designed by Dr Susan Freidman a psycology professor.
Have fun!@Laurie How is it possible that you're drowning me in helpfulness?
I'll check all of them out right away and get back to you if I have any questions!
Monica
Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
1 THE BITING I'm not talking about beaking (he does that too sometimes); I'm talking about us hanging out with my mom in the basement and all of a sudden he gets mean and bites anyone he's near. All of us have to wear socks around him now when he's out; I've been bitten on the lip twice and he broke skin once. I can't just let him bite me or shake him off because 9/10 he's made me bleed. It's nothing that we're doing either. It's like he's got aggressive mood swings and he can only be out for about 15-45 minutes at a time before he bites someone, and sometimes even less than that.
What I've been doing is when he bites I take him back and put him in his cage. I wait a few minutes (like a half hour) just to see if he needed some time alone, and then I take him back out again. But when I try to take him back out he tries to bite my arms, my jacket, my hands, etc. When he tries to bite me it's like he's angry at me for punishing him? I don't know how to explain it, but I need serious advice. There has to be a way to teach him that biting isn't okay, because I'm at my wits end.
I agree with the others, in the fact that the only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that doesn't occur. Also agree that his "time-outs" are too long. Even 2 minutes could be too long! Please do not ignore the biting, though! (i.e. don't allow him to bite until he stops!) Best thing you can do is to get him off of you (carefully!) and to take a few seconds, maybe even 30 seconds away to try and figure out why he bit.
Maybe it would help to have him out for shorter periods of time? It's quite possible that being out for so long is too much for him to handle and process so he needs time back in his cage. Try taking him back to his cage every 5-10 minutes (at least in the beginning! You can later work up to longer periods of time!) and see if he wants to stay there or if he wants to stay with you.
Also, while he's out, try and engage him in something. Maybe it's learning new behaviors? Maybe it's foraging? Or playing with some simple toys? Keep him busy!
A lot of birds may also bite due to boredom. Although you may be okay with a bird sitting on your shoulder for an hour a day, the bird may become irritated because he needs something to do and simply sitting around just isn't fun.
2 CAGE AGGRESSION When I first posted about this one, I was told it wasn't cage aggression - that he was just in a new place and his cage was all he had so he felt safe in there? That's not at all how it is. He tries to bite my fingers whenever I go near the lock, he tries to bite the back of my neck when I clean out the tray, he puffs up and gets aggressive if I come near the cage to talk to him. How do I solve this one? I was thinking about getting him a new cage (his cage is outdated and disgusting because we haven't had the chance to spray it; but we can't in the winter), will that help the situation or make it worse? I want him to know that me (or my family members) coming near his cage isn't an attack on his territory.
The budgies' cage and his used to be adjacent, but I put a book case in between them. It helped him from being so stressed out and doing that wing shake thing he used to do a lot. I was told by his previous owner that they'd tried to get him to interact with other birds and that he even lived with other birds for a time (it wasn't specified what kind), and that he was bullied.
A new cage *might* help. What will help is target training and station training.
Whenever you walk past his cage, drop a treat inside a cup that he *only* gets when you walk by. If he lunges, try to change your approach. Maybe try walking slower? Talking to him in a calm manner as you approach. Don't try to physically interact with him, just drop him a treat and *leave*. Don't stay around and chit chat. We want to get him excited to see you approach his cage! When he looks forward to your presence, then you can try other behaviors.
As far as target training and station training go... well, it may be a good idea to leave him in his cage until he learns these behaviors. He's a young bird, being stuck in his cage for a few weeks isn't going to kill him! And it may help to improve your bond with him!
Why is this, though? I mean, don't you need to physically interact with him to bond with him? Not at all! Him being locked in his cage prevents him from being able to bite you. Plain and simple! Then we can work on target training and stationing through the cage bars. If you can't figure out how to offer a treat through the cage bars so he has to reach for it, then try offering it on a spoon or into a treat cup!
The target can be anything you want it to be. In fact, step up is a form of target training! You can use an empty pen case, a chopstick, a knitting needle, a bamboo skewer, a toy, your hand, etc! Preferably something he isn't scared of, but it is possible to target train him to something he is afraid of. This, in turn, can also be used to train him to play with toys!!!! Anyway, targeting... If he looks at the target, reward. If he moves his head towards the target, reward. If he makes a step towards the target, reward. If he makes two steps towards the target, reward.
He wont get it at first, but once it clicks, it goes smoother! I want to stress one thing though, he DOES NOT need to touch the target in order to be target trained!
And station training. Basically, have your hand full of his favorite treats and if he's sitting on a desired perch away from his dishes and the door of the cage, start handing him a treat. When he finished, hand him another. In other words, keep his mouth full! And slowly increase the time between how often you have him sitting there for a reward. Maybe it's 1 second, then 3 seconds, then 5 seconds, etc.
Don't work on these behaviors when you need them! Work on them when you don't! That is, if you need to clean his cage, work on the behavior several hours before you need to clean the cage. We want to set him up for success, and things go smoother if he already knows a behavior for when it's actually needed. These behaviors may take several days or weeks for him to learn, so don't get discouraged!
And a last night... if he was doing the wing quivering towards the budgies, he may have wanted to be with the budgies?
3 THE CONSTANT CONTACT CALLING I know that it's contact calling because my budgies do it when I come home from work. It's high-pitched, irritating and doesn't make any sense that he's doing it? I understand that he's excited to see me when I come home from work, but if he can't see me from his cage (if I step into my bathroom for more than a millisecond) he immediately starts contact calling me like I've abandoned him. Again, I don't know what his previous owner did to him to make him like this, but it's awful! And sometimes when I go to get him out, because I've just woken up or he hasn't been out yet, he'll try to bite me - so why is he contact calling like he wants me to take him out?
To me, this sounds like "normal" behavior. I'm not saying it's "good" behavior, I'm just saying that it's quite common! Many parrot owners deal with this!
If he's being quiet, can you try moving his cage around with you? This kind of goes against what I previously said, but would it make it easier if you opened up his cage door and left it open? Or maybe once he knows how to forage, give him a foraging toy when you need to leave his site?
4 HE'S SCARED OF ANY TOY I TRY TO SHOW HIM HOW TO PLAY WITH When I go bird shopping I often times get willow balls from the small animal section (my budgies love them), or tiny puppy kongs that I put seed into as a foraging toy? He's got several wood and plastic toys hung in his cage, and I've tried showing him that they aren't going to hurt him, but he just steps away when I try to. How do I effectively show him that the toys in his cage are fun, and that they'll help him from being bored when I'm at work. (I believe that may be a part of the problem. I can't always be home and when I am about half the time I'm sleeping or doing something that's unsafe for him.) So really give me ways that I can show him how to entertain himself.
If he accidentally touches a toy, make a big deal about it! Go over to his cage and give him some verbal attention! Maybe even a treat! He'll definitely be confused at first, but the more you keep it up, the more he'll figure out that touching a toy gets attention and treats, and you can then shape this into playing with toys.
Likewise, can you stuff his toys with food and treats? Drill holes into the wood and cram food in them?
If he's out of his cage, put a toy down on a table then put seeds and other goods around the toy and maybe even on top.
5 HE DOESN'T LIKE TO FLY? He only flies off and comes back to me when he gets spooked, or when he wants to follow me upstairs. I don't get why he's not eager to fly like the budgies, because his previous owner said he used to fly all over the house. So I need a tad bit of help with this as well, because I want to start doing positive reinforcement training (next week after I graduate and am home more) and I want to recall flight train him (just indoors, I live somewhere too cold to do it outdoors).
He's probably more bonded to you than the budgies are, so he's less likely to fly around like they do. It can take time to teach him to enjoy flying around. It may also help to have various stations set up that he can fly to and forage, play with toys, eat, etc. (all in due time, I'm sure!)
He does that scared/frightened wing-shake thing whenever he's not on my shoulder or my leg or at least four feet away from me.
If he's scared and not begging for something, can you take him to wherever he feels safe? If this is his cage, take him back to his cage! If he wants to remain there, that's fine! But he might also be okay with just touching and standing on his cage, then wanting back on you. This is a trust building behavior. In time, he may choose you as his "safety blanket" instead of his cage.
If he's acting scared due to something within the environment, then remove the object (or hide it) or perhaps remove him. (if you can)
I'm worried that putting him back in his cage for those time outs will teach him to hate going in his cage? Is there any other way to give him a "time-out"?
No attention, no treats. If he's on a perch and goes to bite, remove your hand and/or treats and turn around. If he shows he wants to interact, try again. If not, ignore him for 3-5 seconds or maybe a little longer.
Putting him back in his cage can indeed teach him to hate going into his cage, or teach him to become more aggressive when he wants to go back to his cage.
The problem isn't necessarily that he's cage aggressive; it's that when I try to move him - as suggested by several people - he doesn't want to step up and instead tries to bite my arm.
If you can't move him from his cage without him biting, leave him be! Unless it's an emergency or he needs to go to the vet, he doesn't *have* to leave his cage! You can even take the cage *with* you around the house so he can still receive ambient attention.
Normally I ignore them. It's just anxiety-inducing for me to hear squawking wherever I am in the house. I'm probably going to go buy a set of earbuds to avoid that, but if I let him know that screaming/contact calling me gets attention then he won't ever stop, and I can't live with that consistent of an annoying noise.
What do you want him to do instead? How can you reinforce that behavior? Are there any chirps or other noises that he makes that you can reinforce? Would he ring a bell instead? What about whispering? Reward desired behavior! Even if it's minor!
What I've been doing is when he bites I take him back and put him in his cage. I wait a few minutes (like a half hour) just to see if he needed some time alone, and then I take him back out again. But when I try to take him back out he tries to bite my arms, my jacket, my hands, etc. When he tries to bite me it's like he's angry at me for punishing him? I don't know how to explain it, but I need serious advice. There has to be a way to teach him that biting isn't okay, because I'm at my wits end.
I agree with the others, in the fact that the only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that doesn't occur. Also agree that his "time-outs" are too long. Even 2 minutes could be too long! Please do not ignore the biting, though! (i.e. don't allow him to bite until he stops!) Best thing you can do is to get him off of you (carefully!) and to take a few seconds, maybe even 30 seconds away to try and figure out why he bit.
Maybe it would help to have him out for shorter periods of time? It's quite possible that being out for so long is too much for him to handle and process so he needs time back in his cage. Try taking him back to his cage every 5-10 minutes (at least in the beginning! You can later work up to longer periods of time!) and see if he wants to stay there or if he wants to stay with you.
Also, while he's out, try and engage him in something. Maybe it's learning new behaviors? Maybe it's foraging? Or playing with some simple toys? Keep him busy!
A lot of birds may also bite due to boredom. Although you may be okay with a bird sitting on your shoulder for an hour a day, the bird may become irritated because he needs something to do and simply sitting around just isn't fun.
2 CAGE AGGRESSION When I first posted about this one, I was told it wasn't cage aggression - that he was just in a new place and his cage was all he had so he felt safe in there? That's not at all how it is. He tries to bite my fingers whenever I go near the lock, he tries to bite the back of my neck when I clean out the tray, he puffs up and gets aggressive if I come near the cage to talk to him. How do I solve this one? I was thinking about getting him a new cage (his cage is outdated and disgusting because we haven't had the chance to spray it; but we can't in the winter), will that help the situation or make it worse? I want him to know that me (or my family members) coming near his cage isn't an attack on his territory.
The budgies' cage and his used to be adjacent, but I put a book case in between them. It helped him from being so stressed out and doing that wing shake thing he used to do a lot. I was told by his previous owner that they'd tried to get him to interact with other birds and that he even lived with other birds for a time (it wasn't specified what kind), and that he was bullied.
A new cage *might* help. What will help is target training and station training.
Whenever you walk past his cage, drop a treat inside a cup that he *only* gets when you walk by. If he lunges, try to change your approach. Maybe try walking slower? Talking to him in a calm manner as you approach. Don't try to physically interact with him, just drop him a treat and *leave*. Don't stay around and chit chat. We want to get him excited to see you approach his cage! When he looks forward to your presence, then you can try other behaviors.
As far as target training and station training go... well, it may be a good idea to leave him in his cage until he learns these behaviors. He's a young bird, being stuck in his cage for a few weeks isn't going to kill him! And it may help to improve your bond with him!
Why is this, though? I mean, don't you need to physically interact with him to bond with him? Not at all!
Him being locked in his cage prevents him from being able to bite you. Plain and simple! Then we can work on target training and stationing through the cage bars. If you can't figure out how to offer a treat through the cage bars so he has to reach for it, then try offering it on a spoon or into a treat cup!The target can be anything you want it to be. In fact, step up is a form of target training! You can use an empty pen case, a chopstick, a knitting needle, a bamboo skewer, a toy, your hand, etc! Preferably something he isn't scared of, but it is possible to target train him to something he is afraid of. This, in turn, can also be used to train him to play with toys!!!! Anyway, targeting... If he looks at the target, reward. If he moves his head towards the target, reward. If he makes a step towards the target, reward. If he makes two steps towards the target, reward.
He wont get it at first, but once it clicks, it goes smoother! I want to stress one thing though, he DOES NOT need to touch the target in order to be target trained!
And station training. Basically, have your hand full of his favorite treats and if he's sitting on a desired perch away from his dishes and the door of the cage, start handing him a treat. When he finished, hand him another. In other words, keep his mouth full! And slowly increase the time between how often you have him sitting there for a reward. Maybe it's 1 second, then 3 seconds, then 5 seconds, etc.
Don't work on these behaviors when you need them! Work on them when you don't! That is, if you need to clean his cage, work on the behavior several hours before you need to clean the cage. We want to set him up for success, and things go smoother if he already knows a behavior for when it's actually needed. These behaviors may take several days or weeks for him to learn, so don't get discouraged!
And a last night... if he was doing the wing quivering towards the budgies, he may have wanted to be with the budgies?
3 THE CONSTANT CONTACT CALLING I know that it's contact calling because my budgies do it when I come home from work. It's high-pitched, irritating and doesn't make any sense that he's doing it? I understand that he's excited to see me when I come home from work, but if he can't see me from his cage (if I step into my bathroom for more than a millisecond) he immediately starts contact calling me like I've abandoned him. Again, I don't know what his previous owner did to him to make him like this, but it's awful! And sometimes when I go to get him out, because I've just woken up or he hasn't been out yet, he'll try to bite me - so why is he contact calling like he wants me to take him out?
To me, this sounds like "normal" behavior. I'm not saying it's "good" behavior, I'm just saying that it's quite common! Many parrot owners deal with this!
If he's being quiet, can you try moving his cage around with you? This kind of goes against what I previously said, but would it make it easier if you opened up his cage door and left it open? Or maybe once he knows how to forage, give him a foraging toy when you need to leave his site?
4 HE'S SCARED OF ANY TOY I TRY TO SHOW HIM HOW TO PLAY WITH When I go bird shopping I often times get willow balls from the small animal section (my budgies love them), or tiny puppy kongs that I put seed into as a foraging toy? He's got several wood and plastic toys hung in his cage, and I've tried showing him that they aren't going to hurt him, but he just steps away when I try to. How do I effectively show him that the toys in his cage are fun, and that they'll help him from being bored when I'm at work. (I believe that may be a part of the problem. I can't always be home and when I am about half the time I'm sleeping or doing something that's unsafe for him.) So really give me ways that I can show him how to entertain himself.
If he accidentally touches a toy, make a big deal about it! Go over to his cage and give him some verbal attention! Maybe even a treat! He'll definitely be confused at first, but the more you keep it up, the more he'll figure out that touching a toy gets attention and treats, and you can then shape this into playing with toys.
Likewise, can you stuff his toys with food and treats? Drill holes into the wood and cram food in them?
If he's out of his cage, put a toy down on a table then put seeds and other goods around the toy and maybe even on top.
5 HE DOESN'T LIKE TO FLY? He only flies off and comes back to me when he gets spooked, or when he wants to follow me upstairs. I don't get why he's not eager to fly like the budgies, because his previous owner said he used to fly all over the house. So I need a tad bit of help with this as well, because I want to start doing positive reinforcement training (next week after I graduate and am home more) and I want to recall flight train him (just indoors, I live somewhere too cold to do it outdoors).
He's probably more bonded to you than the budgies are, so he's less likely to fly around like they do. It can take time to teach him to enjoy flying around. It may also help to have various stations set up that he can fly to and forage, play with toys, eat, etc. (all in due time, I'm sure!)
He does that scared/frightened wing-shake thing whenever he's not on my shoulder or my leg or at least four feet away from me.
If he's scared and not begging for something, can you take him to wherever he feels safe? If this is his cage, take him back to his cage! If he wants to remain there, that's fine! But he might also be okay with just touching and standing on his cage, then wanting back on you. This is a trust building behavior. In time, he may choose you as his "safety blanket" instead of his cage.
If he's acting scared due to something within the environment, then remove the object (or hide it) or perhaps remove him. (if you can)
I'm worried that putting him back in his cage for those time outs will teach him to hate going in his cage? Is there any other way to give him a "time-out"?
No attention, no treats. If he's on a perch and goes to bite, remove your hand and/or treats and turn around. If he shows he wants to interact, try again. If not, ignore him for 3-5 seconds or maybe a little longer.
Putting him back in his cage can indeed teach him to hate going into his cage, or teach him to become more aggressive when he wants to go back to his cage.
The problem isn't necessarily that he's cage aggressive; it's that when I try to move him - as suggested by several people - he doesn't want to step up and instead tries to bite my arm.
If you can't move him from his cage without him biting, leave him be! Unless it's an emergency or he needs to go to the vet, he doesn't *have* to leave his cage! You can even take the cage *with* you around the house so he can still receive ambient attention.
Normally I ignore them. It's just anxiety-inducing for me to hear squawking wherever I am in the house. I'm probably going to go buy a set of earbuds to avoid that, but if I let him know that screaming/contact calling me gets attention then he won't ever stop, and I can't live with that consistent of an annoying noise.
What do you want him to do instead? How can you reinforce that behavior? Are there any chirps or other noises that he makes that you can reinforce? Would he ring a bell instead? What about whispering? Reward desired behavior! Even if it's minor!
Monica
Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
PS, please take a look at this thread! It contains a lot of information (Through the links) that will be invaluable to you!
Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
All of the times that he's broken skin it's been because of light tapping noises, or sitcom music. Stuff that he normally does enjoy, and that's why it's confusing.
I could try that, I'm just worried I'll put him back and he won't want to come back out and he'll become cage-bound and hate being out and about with me.
I'll have to read up on how to teach him that toys are good then because he hasn't liked any of the things I've tried. Sometimes he'll respond when I say "Cooper come here" and then move away, so he moves closer; it's kind of like playing chase and he's following me around on the carpet. He seems to enjoy that.
That's a good idea. I can try doing that, but there's no guarantee that I won't lose a couple fingers!
I feel bad that he's stuck in his cage so much though! I want him to want to come out and interact with me and be with me while I do different things - he just doesn't want to. It sucks for me, because it means I have to start on square one with a bird that previously used to be cuddly and affectionate and love to just sit on the couch.
I don't really understand this one? I've never heard of station training before, and I don't understand a practical use for it.
I thought that as well, but he just tried to nip at them or they would try to yank on his tail feathers, and when him and my oldest budgie chat back and forth across the room it sometimes gets him really spun up, and he moves away from the side of the cage that Manny's voice is coming from. So it probably isn't that.
I do this whenever I can, and he's usually well-behaved. I can try to do it more, but I'll need to train him to go back into his cage when I say, because I can't just leave to work and not have him safe. He doesn't like to listen when I try to get him to go back into his cage. (Even when I offer treats.)
Do I repeatedly pick him up and put him back down? How does this one work?
I knew it!
Our house is plagued with many staircases and thus this isn't a viable option for us lol.
He does a dry sounding, off-key "wolf whistle," I just don't want his random vocalizations throughout the day to be so loud. This is going to sound selfish but I need him to better communicate to me what he needs (whether he wants out, or more water, etc.) or I'm not going to be able to effectively take care of his needs, y'know? I need to know that when he does whatever signal I teach him instead of screeching that he wants out and that he's not just yelling cause he wants to yell. I don't have a problem with yelling - I just want a particular yell that means "I want out!"
Monica
Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Birds can become afraid of things they were previously accustomed to. Charlie used to have a wicker(?) wreath with felt lining on the inside. He often fell asleep on it. I took it away for a long while. Even had to clean it, as it had poo on it.
When I finally returned it, he was terrified of it! I chose not to return it to him after that as I didn't really feel like cleaning poo off of it every time he got it dirty.
IMO, it's better to work with a bird from the cage, out. Work where they feel most comfortable.
I feel like a lot of cage problems arise because people force their bird's away from their cages, and when the bird wants to go back, they refuse. The birds then become defensive around their cages and people wonder why.
You *know* he can learn new behaviors, but you are acting like he can't. Ambient attention can be just as important, if not more important, than one on one attention. Birds *need* to know how to play independently so that they can be healthy, well rounded individuals.
Cooper doesn't know how to play independently, so he's relying on human interaction to get all of the enrichment he requires for his life. This isn't healthy. He may also not have had any direction in life, so he doesn't know how he should act.
If he doesn't want to come back out once you take him to his cage, that's ok! Try again later! He may need that break because being away from his cage can be stressful and too much sensory input. Going back to his cage would allow him to "recharge", in a manner of speaking!
You'll only lose fingers if you stick them in the cage!!!!
If you offer the treat in such a way that he has to reach through the cage bars in order to take the treat, but your fingers are just out of biting range, he can't bite you!
Likewise, if you drop the treat into a designated treat cup, either from the side or from above, this also avoids him being able to bite you!
What if the best way to improve your relationship with Cooper is to start from "ground zero"? AKA, his cage? And this requires him being stuck to his cage for a little while? Would the end results not justify the work?
I mean, what we are trying to do here is to avoid getting bitten, and start with training in a *safe* manner.
Think about it this way... he can't bite you unless your fingers are in his cage. Now, unless we are cleaning his cage, why would we be putting our fingers in his cage? If his cage has a grate and a tray, you can clean the bottom without putting your fingers inside the cage and also keeping him in the cage. This makes cage cleaning even easier! Plus, his cage has food doors, which should further help to eliminate the need to put hands inside the cage!
So with this in mind, you can use Cooper's time in cage as "bite free training" time!
And with the more good behavior we can establish inside the cage, the better chance we'll have of being able to replicate that behavior out of the cage!
So you see, it's really not that bad. You aren't sticking him in his cage and ignoring him. You are sticking him in his cage and working on training new behaviors so you can have better behavior outside of the cage.
It's the same exact behavior as teaching a dog to "stay"!
You said that he tries to bite your fingers when you go near the lock of the cage, or when you try cleaning the cage.
Now, if he was trained to remain on a perch when you go to open the door, change the food dishes or clean the cage, or do anything else in the cage, would that not be a practical application of the behavior? He wouldn't be trying to bite you or display aggressive behavior, he'd simply be sitting on his perch watching you and waiting to be rewarded.
Didn't say he couldn't be an instigator! LOL I wonder if he wants to interact with other birds, he just doesn't know how due to a bad past experience.
You may need to find treats of higher value, or maybe temporarily remove access to food prior to letting him out?
Put him back on his cage if he wants to be on his cage. If he wants to be on you, then pick him up. You don't need to repeatedly set him down and pick him up, unless he wants to.
Although, this would be a good behavior to work on to try and avoid cage aggression. If he bites, remove your attention and his reward.
Maybe a better option would be a smaller cage he can be moved around in! LOL I forgot his cage is similar to one of my own, so moving it around would be more difficult! But honestly, it wouldn't hurt to have a "day" cage aka "play cage"! A place where he can hang out around the family, have snacks, maybe have some toys, but still not be directly on you! Something like a small flight cage with a big door would be great!
This could be a great way to help reinforce ambient attention and playing independently!
If the wolf whistle isn't hard on your ears, then reward him every time he makes that noise! Just be fine with the idea of hearing it all day long!
He *can* better communicate with you his needs, but first, he needs to learn how to do so!
If you wanted, you could train him to ring a bell when he wants out, or whistle when he wants out or any other behavior!
You just need to find a behavior to teach him to do and reinforce it! Then pair that behavior with coming out!
@Monica Thank you so much for a ton of great advice! Last night after I'd covered their cages I was working on something on my computer, and whenever he screeched I ignored him and whenever he "wolf-whistled" I repeated a similar sound back to him. I think that noise is going to mean "Mom, I can't see you because my cage is covered. I'm scared that you've left. Are you still there?" and my wolf-whistle back means "Yes I'm still here. Everything's okay." He only did it every ten or fifteen minutes. I guess he just needed to re-affirm that I'm still in the room when I'm being quiet and he can't see me. That's how it seemed last night anyway. I'm going to see if he does it at all this afternoon when I get home so I can re-affirm it again. I like the wolf-whistle much more. (And he seems to be okay with me just responding, and not really being rewarded in any way.)
That sounds perfect! Good work. You are establishing a contact call and giving your bird a way to communicate with you
Way to go!
@Laurie Thank you! I've been doing it for two days now, and he's starting to get the hang of it. This morning when I was getting ready for school, he tried screeching and I'd ignore it and he wolf-whistled and I wolf-whistled back. Although he did screech a few times, he wolf-whistled more than two days ago before I started retraining him. Slow but steady progress!
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Wing quivering can be a sign that the bird wants to go somewhere, wants something, or is possibly afraid of something and wants to get away from it. Birds who can't fly tend to wing quiver more than birds that do fly, since birds that can fly would just fly off in the direction they want to go.
Found a video of someones sun conure doing the behavior.
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I have to second whoever it was on the first page that talked about him picking up on your irritation. We went through a really rough patch with Quijote's behavior early on, and it didn't start to get better until we not only stopped getting irritated, but started being extra gentle and nice to him when he was having problems.
It's not that we gave him treats or anything when he was being a pain, but we spoke to him in a softer voice and worked harder to praise him when he did something praiseworthy (which, for a while, was a little difficult considering all the bad behavior flying around.)
I don't know if this will work for you, but one of the tactics I employed was determining a "that hurts" sound. Instead of yelling, or getting mad, I would go "AH" in a sort of gasping voice. It didn't work immediately, but combined with other kinds of reinforcement and lots of patience its had an effect. Now 9/10 he'll let go as soon as the pain sound is made, and if he DOESNT let go then I can usually look over the period just before the bite and figure out what it was I did wrong.
(For example, yesterday I was impatient to get him in his cage and wrapped my hand around his whole back to pick him up. This was a no-no, and I got a bloody little bite mark to remind me.)
Also, it seems to me that conures are one of the bitier breeds. Quijote has a tendency to use biting for everything from "hey, you're not understanding me" to "I'm really mad!" and it's taken time and effort to teach him what's appropriate and inappropriate pressure for communicating those things.
It takes Quijote FOREVER to decide that the toys I bring him aren't homicidal monsters. I brought him some new ones for Christmas, and he's just now sort of kind of checking them out a little... and that's better than it used to be. Some birds are just more cautious about new things than other birds.
My CAG will jump on a new toy right away, but Quijote and the budgie take an extraordinarily long time to be okay with new toys.
For our conure we like to get something big and shreddable. He's terrified of it at first, but Quijote LOVES to destroy things and when he finally gets used to his giant birdie toy he spends a good deal of time literally hanging from it and swinging as he tears it to pieces. Since it takes him so long to adapt to a toy, I try to make it a real doozy that's gonna keep him entertained for a while.
I don't know how well you know his previous owner, but this sounds strange to me.
Quijote was like that because he'd been clipped too close for too long as a fledgling, and never learned to fly. I had to teach him how...which was an adventure. Since I can't fly.
I'd hold him on my hand and lift and lower him fast enough to make him flap (which sometimes got me bit.)
Then I'd work with another bird in sight of his cage (I used our CAG) and I'd flap my arms in front of her and say "fly" until she'd take off and then give her treats and praise her like she'd just invented the sun.
Then I did the same with him. First I'd encourage him and praise him just for starting to twitch his wings. Then for starting to flap. Then for flight.
I haven't recall trained my birds, and they no longer react to the word "Fly" because I didn't keep at it, but now Quijote flies. He's still reluctant if the distance seems far to him (more than a few feet) but he'll do it. He is, in fact, willing to fly all the way across the apartment if he hears my husband in another room, because my husband is his favorite person ever.
As I write this Quijote is screaming "HEY! HEY! COME HERE!" over and over again from the other room. He will probably never be a very quiet bird, or perfectly well behaved, but he is a sweetheart.
The biggest thing I've learned from him has been patience. He's made me tap into reserves of patience I didn't know I had and I've grown for it. Really, under all that fire and anxiety, he is a softie with a big heart and easily hurt feelings. I've had to learn to treat him like a sweet tenderhearted little darling even when he's not acting like it, and it's made a world of behavioral difference.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go reward him for this moment of silence.
He does it when he's out of my bedroom/away from his cage and then I step away. He only uses it as a stress-signal - "I"m scared or having anxiety come back please!"
I'm going to have to grow a lot more in the patience department then. Like I said before, I sometimes get so frustrated that I have to step out of the room before I do something worse than just getting frustrated. (Though I have never and will never physically harm one of my birds - I need that to be clear. I just got my dad's temper and it came with a reaaaaallllyyyyy short rope.)
I'm working on that right now, and he's stopped screaming so much, but other than that I don't think it's working too well. I know I won't get instant results, but it would be nice to see some progress.
I would definitely be willing to try this! I would just need to know the different kinds of reinforcement you used and whether or not those worked!
Pretending his bites don't hurt, doesn't work. I can't just wiggle him off because he always breaks skin when he bites, and I don't like the idea of not telling him when his bites are "mean."
I should've known that before I brought him home!
I'll have to try that then. I have several toys hanging in his cage that he doesn't seem to touch and I never hear the bells attached to them make any noises.
I didn't know her that well. We only texted back and forth for about 3 weeks before I went to pick Cooper up.
It sounds like Cooper and Quijote have similar views on flying - not if the distance is too great. Cooper just won't fly over to me unless he gets startled or wants to be on me because of how anxious he is in new settings (so basically not on command). He just prefers waddled and climbing. I don't think he's had much free-flight time in his life so he doesn't realize that it can be fun, and that I'll allow him to do it whenever I leave the cage open.
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I totally understand that. Conure bites hurt and they can and will draw blood. It's just that I've never met a conure who turned out to be genuinely mean spirited. I've seen jealousy, anger, and fear, but not straight out meanness.
I'm not expressly skilled with my birds. We've done virtually no training and they don't know any tricks (and have hardly any manners). The biggest thing I've found that's helped me to work on behaviors that come up is just remembering that making them feel less loved/respected/safe is going to do the exact opposite of what I want.
So, I try to keep a positive attitude toward them while we work together and I think they can sense it.
And I get the short fuse. This has been a hard lesson, and I'm certainly not perfect at it. At first I would get so angry I'd actually yell at my bird and then storm out of the room and cry... Which, as you can imagine, was counterproductive.
You are seeing progress, though, and you're seeing it pretty quickly. Just the fact that he screams a little less already is a really good step.
Well, for Quijote food wasn't a good motivator. Even when he was hungry. It worked for a very brief window and then he figured out that he was supposed to do things he didn't feel like doing in order to get the treat, and he started literally turning his back on me any time I'd try to use it.
However, attention and praise was a big on for him. He loved being ooed and awed over. So, whenever he did something we liked (and often when he wasn't doing anything at all) my husband and I would go over and tell him how pretty, and smart, and wonderful he was.
In fact, those "quijote you're so special and pretty and smart and brave" sessions improved our overall relationship greatly over time.
We found that time out only works for him if it's pretty short. Maybe a minute. And even then its not really any more effective for changing his behavior than simply removing him from the area he wants to be in, or turning away from him. So we put him down and turn away when we don't like something he does.
The biggest thing I think was to figure out what was upsetting him and either stop it from happening or (if that wasn't reasonable) work with him on the issue. Often seemingly random attacks actually have a trigger of some kind that we're just not aware of because we don't look at the world the same way our bird does.
Haha! I remember feeling that way myself. It's not just conures, though. I figure if you have a bird its a pretty good chance you're going to get bit at LEAST sometimes.
How long have they been in there?
Maybe you could put something he likes up in places he can only get to by flying?
I actually have some advice on the cage aggression.
Several years ago I worked with a Hans Macaw that was highly antisocial and very cage aggressive.
Porter is also cage aggressive if left alone to his own devices for too long.
A simple trick is to set up a 'cage rotation'
Get him that new cage... and put the old one in a nice dark quiet room.
By doing this he doesn't live in the one cage and doesn't spend enough time in either to claim it as 'territory' though it still remains a safe space that he is likely happy to go to.
Porter has a sleep cage in my bedroom closet, dark..quiet and it makes sure that he is sleeping the needed 10-12 hours a day.
Add in that he doesn't just live in one place anymore.
Sleep cage, then he has a bigger cage in a well occupied room of the house where he can see people coming and going.
The sleep cage doesn't need more than pellets and water... a couple of perches and one or two toys.
But by setting up a definite routine... aka getting him up at say... 9 in the morning and bringing him to the BIG cage... and then putting him to bed at 9pm at night sets him up for something entirely different than he is used to; and also sets up a routine that he will begin to depend on.
Porter has been on his routine since I got him... and now he demands to go to bed at 'bedtime'.
It cuts down on the cage aggression and the uncertainty.
If he KNOWS what is going to happen... he is likely to be a little more calm.
Birds LIKE routine, and getting them into a good one is the first step to having a well adjusted and happy bird.
Several years ago I worked with a Hans Macaw that was highly antisocial and very cage aggressive.
Porter is also cage aggressive if left alone to his own devices for too long.
A simple trick is to set up a 'cage rotation'
Get him that new cage... and put the old one in a nice dark quiet room.
By doing this he doesn't live in the one cage and doesn't spend enough time in either to claim it as 'territory' though it still remains a safe space that he is likely happy to go to.
Porter has a sleep cage in my bedroom closet, dark..quiet and it makes sure that he is sleeping the needed 10-12 hours a day.
Add in that he doesn't just live in one place anymore.
Sleep cage, then he has a bigger cage in a well occupied room of the house where he can see people coming and going.
The sleep cage doesn't need more than pellets and water... a couple of perches and one or two toys.
But by setting up a definite routine... aka getting him up at say... 9 in the morning and bringing him to the BIG cage... and then putting him to bed at 9pm at night sets him up for something entirely different than he is used to; and also sets up a routine that he will begin to depend on.
Porter has been on his routine since I got him... and now he demands to go to bed at 'bedtime'.
It cuts down on the cage aggression and the uncertainty.
If he KNOWS what is going to happen... he is likely to be a little more calm.
Birds LIKE routine, and getting them into a good one is the first step to having a well adjusted and happy bird.
