Who has more than one bird..? Help!

[Barnaby Rose]

Ok guys, so sorry to keep posting but this will be the last question filled post for a while I promise!

So, we have made the decision to bring home the little baby Timneh African Grey, his name is Oliver. My wife and I have been like 50 times over the last few months and so it is anything but spontaneous, but I put my deposit down today, so it's offical. He will be ready to come home in a month or so, give or take.

Here's what I need help with. First of all, with my Eclectus Emma - how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept? Surely there is going to be a better way than just sticking them on the same stand together and seeing what happens right? YES we are going to incorporate a quarantine period of at least 45 days, and YES the baby will immediately go through a full exam and blood work and the whole nine yards, just FYI.
Second, in my IDEAL situation, I would like both birds to be kept in the same room, out of cage and free on DIFFERENT manzanita trees, on different sides of the room, while we are home of course.. But not under 100% supervison the entire time.. If possible.. Just as Emma is right now. Again, this is all ideals to me, and I understand it may not work.. But at the very least, I want their cages to be kept in the same room, and worst comes to worst their manzanitas in different rooms. What are your opinions on this set up? Any suggestions, or improvements, or really any feed back at all? Can the cages be kept right next to each other, or is it best to have them on opposite sides of the room? Emma is very quiet and is currently kept in our bedroom, doesn't need to have her cage covered ever, I'm not sure if that will change or not with another bird in the house but I guess we will see.

Finally... I know everybody in the world has their own opinion and reasoning behind wether to clip or not to clip.. But here's my question - Emma is clipped and has always been clipped, I have not had her since she was a baby, I adopted her, but if I had to guess, I would say she was never properly fledged, as she does not seem very sure of herself and her wings, and I am not convinced even if I did never clip them again that she could fly anyway. So right now Oliver is being fully fledged, and is already a great flyer. Part of me wants to keep him flighted because of so many reasons.. And part of me wants to clip him for safety and for training and bonding easier and etc, but I just don't know what to do seeing as if he isn't clipped, I think he may make Emma jealous, maybe make her anxious while flying around and etc, and I feel maybe making them both 'equal' may be the way to go? Again - please give me some advice, or feedback or etc.

Again so sorry for the long rambling post, but hey I figure if anywhere, this would be the place to ramble about birds

B

 

[Animallover03]

congrats on the grey!

 

[JLcribber]

how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept?

Not even the slightest. Parrots don't sniff other parrots bums.

Introductions of any kind are a long way off. You are going to be bringing in a "baby" of a completely contrasting species into an environment with an adult bird who already has "claim" to this territory and (I assume) strong bonds with the family. They may never be able to meet or coexist. Your playing with low odds.

(And again I assume) both these birds are hand fed human imprinted. More low odds that either one will even regard the other as itself (avian) and accept it because of their already damaged psyche.

The grown Ekkie will take out that baby in a heart beat. Never take your eyes off them. It knows it's a baby and vulnerable.

I wish you well. This is a roll of the dice. The "vision" has changed already. Reality is creeping in.

Always hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

[rocky'smom]

I agree with John, you need to be extremely careful with any type introduction. JMHO here, don't introduce them until that baby grey is much older and even then never ever take it for granted, that they will get along. I have 2 cockatiels right now, I don't leave either of them out for even 1 second because that all it take for something to go horribly wrong.

 

[Barnaby Rose]

Not even the slightest. Parrots don't sniff other parrots bums.

Introductions of any kind are a long way off. You are going to be bringing in a "baby" of a completely contrasting species into an environment with an adult bird who already has "claim" to this territory and (I assume) strong bonds with the family. They may never be able to meet or coexist. Your playing with low odds.

(And again I assume) both these birds are hand fed human imprinted. More low odds that either one will even regard the other as itself (avian) and accept it because of their already damaged psyche.

The grown Ekkie will take out that baby in a heart beat. Never take your eyes off them. It knows it's a baby and vulnerable.

I wish you well. This is a roll of the dice. The "vision" has changed already. Reality is creeping in.

Always hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Yes I understand what you are saying, and your assumptions are correct. So, am I okay keeping them caged in the same room still though at least..? Even taking the play stand idea out of the question?
Also, what do you think about the clipping thing? I am now going to do some assuming of my own and guess that you do not believe in clipping a bird ever and all your birds are flighted and etc and that's how they should be and etc (again just my assumption from your posts) and I get it, but in my specific situation, what would your advice be?

 

[Barnaby Rose]

congrats on the grey!

Thank you

 

[txdyna65]

I have a Senegal and an Amazon, their cages are in our livingroom. When we used to have them out, before either could fly we could have them in the same room on different stands.
Both are fully flighted now and my senegal has tried several times to buzz my amazon, he isnt scared of her size at all.
Now if we have them both out, one is with me and the other is with my wife, or we put one in the outdoor aviary, which is what we usually do.
Lucy my amazon only flies if startled, but Mango loves to fly and cant be trusted at all not to try to get Lucy.
Anyways thats my 2 cents, good luck with your flock.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

If you plan on keeping them in the same room their cages should be as far apart as possible and not next to each other. While many of us do own several different species it doesn't mean you can assume that even in time they will be buddies. It may or may not cause behavioral issues with your existing bird ( I think I read that as a concern of yours). Those issues could be a number of different behaviors. For the mental and physical health standpoint of birds it is best to keep them flighted. With that, the utmost diligence is required to keep your new baby safe as it learns to navigate your home or stands and must not be allowed to invade the space of your ekkie. I would say in the beginning when you bring the new baby home take turns with having your birds out just to avoid any mishap. In the future ( Months down the road) and you feel safe enough to have them out in the same open space but still at a distance from each other just be sure to stay in the room with them. I have birds that HAVE to be monitored for their safety or they would have some nasty fights…. and they are the same species.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Ok guys, so sorry to keep posting but this will be the last question filled post for a while I promise!

So, we have made the decision to bring home the little baby Timneh African Grey, his name is Oliver. My wife and I have been like 50 times over the last few months and so it is anything but spontaneous, but I put my deposit down today, so it's offical. He will be ready to come home in a month or so, give or take.

Here's what I need help with. First of all, with my Eclectus Emma - how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept? Surely there is going to be a better way than just sticking them on the same stand together and seeing what happens right? YES we are going to incorporate a quarantine period of at least 45 days, and YES the baby will immediately go through a full exam and blood work and the whole nine yards, just FYI.
Second, in my IDEAL situation, I would like both birds to be kept in the same room, out of cage and free on DIFFERENT manzanita trees, on different sides of the room, while we are home of course.. But not under 100% supervison the entire time.. If possible.. Just as Emma is right now. Again, this is all ideals to me, and I understand it may not work.. But at the very least, I want their cages to be kept in the same room, and worst comes to worst their manzanitas in different rooms. What are your opinions on this set up? Any suggestions, or improvements, or really any feed back at all? Can the cages be kept right next to each other, or is it best to have them on opposite sides of the room? Emma is very quiet and is currently kept in our bedroom, doesn't need to have her cage covered ever, I'm not sure if that will change or not with another bird in the house but I guess we will see.

Finally... I know everybody in the world has their own opinion and reasoning behind wether to clip or not to clip.. But here's my question - Emma is clipped and has always been clipped, I have not had her since she was a baby, I adopted her, but if I had to guess, I would say she was never properly fledged, as she does not seem very sure of herself and her wings, and I am not convinced even if I did never clip them again that she could fly anyway. So right now Oliver is being fully fledged, and is already a great flyer. Part of me wants to keep him flighted because of so many reasons.. And part of me wants to clip him for safety and for training and bonding easier and etc, but I just don't know what to do seeing as if he isn't clipped, I think he may make Emma jealous, maybe make her anxious while flying around and etc, and I feel maybe making them both 'equal' may be the way to go? Again - please give me some advice, or feedback or etc.

Again so sorry for the long rambling post, but hey I figure if anywhere, this would be the place to ramble about birds

B

Ask a million questions if you need to. We're all here to be friends, share information and help those in need. Back to the whole "flight" thingy… if you can imagine keeping a dog within the confines of a small pen, never allowed to run around and be a dog, then this dog might not be as happy or fulfilled because of the limitations.
You can always let Emma's flights grow in. If she never took flight she would still have the sense of balance and wholeness even in the process of preening her wings.
Highly doubtful she would understand what jealousy means in the new bird's ability to fly but I could see where it may make her a bit anxious. So, while you have the new bird out I would suggest keeping her locked in until she gets comfortable with his flying and of course you will be right there to prevent him from landing on her cage. Having flighted birds also means the whole family needs to be in sync with house safety and open doors.

 

[Lodah]

I tend to agree with John... It would be terrible to see any of your flock hurt or end up with behavioral issues! Its all about risk assessment and how you go about it, which I am sure you are aware of! I have wanted to have more than one bird myself on occasion and realized how much impact it might have on Pilo so decided against it! I know that Pilo really flares up when he sees his image in the bedroom mirror when we go for our house tours! That in itself is reason enough for me not to get another fid!

 

[karen256]

It's hard to know how they will react to each other. Your eclectus might be jealous, nervous, or just plain ignore the baby. The baby may be curious and try to approach her, though, so you have to at least supervise carefully if they are out together. You don't want to risk her getting scared and biting if he flies over.
The good part is that even if they never like each other as friends, at least they provide each other with some company when you aren't home.

Now you were asking about introducing them like dogs, and in some ways it's a little like introducing dogs. You want to make sure you acknowledge your eclectus first and give her treats/food first. This will help to reduce any jealousy. Make sure she knows she's still loved and still #1. The baby won't care since he doesn't know better.
If you want to introduce them (as in put them on the same stand or let them interact), don't do it right away - give them time to get used to seeing each other - and do it in a neutral area, not the room where their cages and stands are.

As for the clipping - yes it will be a bit of a hassle, as the baby may want to fly over to your eclectus. Also, many birds will try to fly off if a bird near them takes off suddenly, whether or not they are actually able to fly. It's instinctive for them (the other bird might be flying from something dangerous). So you might have your eclectus attempting to fly if the grey flies near her and you need to be careful she doesn't hurt herself falling. Not all birds will do this, though.
Still, despite the hassle, flying makes all birds, but especially greys, much more confident and well adjusted.

 

[TWR]

My adult sun conure, my 1yr old Jenday and my baby Hahns Macaw all share the birdroom, with their cages fairly close. Even though not buddies, I still think they benefit from each other's presence.

However, I would not risk introductions between a fully adult parrot and a baby parrot. If it were me, I'd let the baby grow up before that. A baby can't compete with an adult and both she and the adult would know that. Even if you are right there, the damage might happen too quickly for you to intervene. An early introduction might set them off on the wrong foot. You don't want a bad early interaction make the grey learn to be fearful of her environment (let alone consider the potential injury which could result).

I dont see why they can't be in the same room, in their cage. Just have separate out of cage time for now. That's how I have to manage my three, as having 2 of the 3 flighted means that I cannot keep them separated if they are out at the same time.

The SC cannot be trusted not to divebomb attack the others and the Jenday can't be trusted not to try to force her (unwanted) friendship attempts onto the other 2 birds. Even the baby Hahns has nipped the Jenday's feet and tail for coming too close. Those were the two I had the most hope could be friends, as they are both young. I wish my birds could all get on, but they don't (sigh)

 

[JLcribber]

Yes I understand what you are saying, and your assumptions are correct. So, am I okay keeping them caged in the same room still though at least..? Even taking the play stand idea out of the question?
Also, what do you think about the clipping thing? I am now going to do some assuming of my own and guess that you do not believe in clipping a bird ever and all your birds are flighted and etc and that's how they should be and etc (again just my assumption from your posts) and I get it, but in my specific situation, what would your advice be?

My specific advice would be to set up the environment so that both birds are set up for success. Safety security and flight.

If that can't be done then do you really have the space to bring in another child? If you live in a very small house and you start having kids. You will need to get a bigger house because everyone needs their own space.

By not giving each the space they require you force them to live under constant stress from the other (physical and mental) which over time will come back to haunt you.

I only ask one simple question whenever someone brings up clipping. Why do you want a bird if you don't want it to fly and give it the space to do so? (Literally strip away its reason to exist). It is already forced to cope with being very restricted (cage). This certainly isn't done for the birds sake? It is a human convenience and the lazy easy way out so we don't have to put in the effort or work.

Would you go out and buy a car only to say "the first thing we need to do is take those wheels off".

 

[Barnaby Rose]

My specific advice would be to set up the environment so that both birds are set up for success. Safety security and flight.

If that can't be done then do you really have the space to bring in another child? If you live in a very small house and you start having kids. You will need to get a bigger house because everyone needs their own space.

By not giving each the space they require you force them to live under constant stress from the other (physical and mental) which over time will come back to haunt you.

I only ask one simple question whenever someone brings up clipping. Why do you want a bird if you don't want it to fly and give it the space to do so? (Literally strip away its reason to exist). It is already forced to cope with being very restricted (cage). This certainly isn't done for the birds sake? It is a human convenience and the lazy easy way out so we don't have to put in the effort or work.

Would you go out and buy a car only to say "the first thing we need to do is take those wheels off".

Ok. Well then let me ask you this. Yes, I do have the room to set them up separately, even on separate floors of my house if absolutely necesarry. However, Emma is great at being independent, she loves her time with me and my wife and she's very social and cuddly when she wants to be, however she values her alone time and independence and etc just as much. If we are all home, and she is just hanging out on her tree or one of her stands playing or eating or relaxing (or whatever the hell else parrots do for fun lol) she is just fine by herself for as long as she needs to be. Now we LOVE spending as much time as we can with her (literally hours), but I would also be lying if it wasn't awesome to be able to leave her alone when needed as well, without worrying about her. My question is, assuming the baby grey is to be kept separate, in a different room, different stands and trees and etc, I am obviously stupid to expect him to be able to live the same way as Emma right? Now PLEASE do not misconstrue my question as 'I won't have enough time for each separately' because I most absolutely will. I am merely asking, speaking GENERALLY, as a baby make Timneh, is their 'alone time' going to damage them more than hurt them? Make him very lonely and sad if I can't be in the room 100% of the time, or can I assume eventually I will be able to treat him similar to how I treat Emma? For the record, if I did it that way, I would absolutely keep Oliver flighted. Thanks for reading

 

[JLcribber]

Its all about the environment you set up. If done right they can all live together of any species.

The thing you can not predict is what kinds of relationship they will form. As I said hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

If you want better odds of a good relationship you would be looking at a same species, same age, opposite gender bird. That is a natural pairing that has good chance of happening.

 

[iamwhoiam]

Agree w/ others that there is no way to predict how birds will get along. Doesn't matter if they are different species or the same species. They may or may not like one another, may just tolerate one another and may be friends and then as months or years pass not get along any more. It's a good idea to try to give them equal amounts of attention if possible. I have a lot of birds so for me it's easy to say but hard to do.
Based on experience I know that they do get jealous of one another if one or more get a new toy and someone doesn't or if I pay more attention to one.

 

[Barnaby Rose]

Its all about the environment you set up. If done right they can all live together of any species.

The thing you can not predict is what kinds of relationship they will form. As I said hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

If you want better odds of a good relationship you would be looking at a same species, same age, opposite gender bird. That is a natural pairing that has good chance of happening.

Ok well I am not looking at another Eclectus I am looking and have already bought the grey so that really isn't very helpful. I could care less if they 'pair together' or not and quite frankly would rather they did not 'bond' to each other any way, I merely would ideally like them to tolerate each other at least so I don't have to constantly live in stress and fear of having them in the same room, one day.
If you could please elaborate on :'Its all about the environment you set up. If done right they can all live together of any species' that would be very helpful as that is what I am trying to accomplish, nothing more. Are you speaking in terms of how they are kept (cage/tree placement, time management and etc) or? If so, what changes/additions specifically do I need to make? I am also considering building/buying a room divider type thing, nailed from the ceiling to the floors with a zipper or opening type thing in the middle to separate the two cages and perches while still being able to have them in the same room, let me know what you think of that as well, thanks.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Ideally you quarantine your new baby in a separate room of your home for a period of no less than a month. When you handle him or clean his cage be sure to wash your hands before handling Emma is the best protocol to prevent any spreading of disease even though you will have the new bird checked out by an avian vet. During this month Emma will be able to hear him as a gentle approach to introduction. When the time comes that you can integrate them into the same room as I mentioned before… at opposite sides of the room. Placing cages next to each other is still too invasive of space and forced. I'm not so sure a divider between cages would be sufficient to give them comfort of ease if they can hear an immediate noise and possibly be frightened of whatever noise it could be ( sudden scream? dropping something?). You know in the wild they would probably never sit next to each other in a tree so let them get used to each other visually and vocally from a distance that fits their comfort level. In terms of time with this distance …. months. Literally. Patience is always key to introduction. What I wrote below was in answer to your other post.

Emma's personality is established and you know what her needs are in terms of your human company with her. Oliver ( love that name) has yet to arrive and his needs are not known to you yet. If, lets say, you shower him with hours of attention ( daily) in his first months with you then you are building his "need" to be with you and your expectation of him being able to live the same way as Emma will be blown out the door. You really can't predict whether or not he'll be one of those needy velcro birds. I think you could certainly build a routine of alone time with him by giving him something to keep him busy during his alone time … foraging toys, etc. Happy baby = quiet self entertained baby.

 

[JLcribber]

If you could please elaborate on :'Its all about the environment you set up.

Birds that get along, gravitate towards each other, form bonds, do not attack others etc can live in one environment. It must be big enough so each member/pair of the flock has a place to call it's own (personal space) where it is secure and safe from the others.

If there are conflicting personalities, too much difference in size and real dangers because of it you're going to need a second environment. Some birds, especially the big ones need their own environment. Big ones need a lot more environment per bird period. One large parrot needs a personal space of about 12ft x 12ft.

Ideally you would have a very large room that you could divide into "zones" with mesh/screening/curtains/removeable panels etc. That way everyboby is together but safe and secure.

You can do whatever you want while you are supervising 100% of the time. This is the way they will be required to live when you aren't around. Because you can't be around ALL the time.

 

[JLcribber]

In time (years) as you come to fully understand your birds behaviours and dynamics of the Flock you can change/adapt the environments. The dynamics are an ever changing thing because birds mature and relationships evolve.