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Opinions on BirdTricks?

Hankmacaw

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Here is what Chris Biro has to say about "Bird Tricks". Particularly about them staving their birds when flying them and some of the deceptive and dishonest practices they engage in.

The article is copyright protected so I cannot copy it here (as I would like to so all of the naive would see it). Here is the link to that article.
https://www.libertywings.com/birdtricksters-com/
 

Farfah

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Here is what Chris Biro has to say about "Bird Tricks". Particularly about them staving their birds when flying them and some of the deceptive and dishonest practices they engage in.

The article is copyright protected so I cannot copy it here (as I would like to so all of the naive would see it). Here is the link to that article.
https://www.libertywings.com/birdtricksters-com/
That's horrible :(
 

Alliusis

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Here is what Chris Biro has to say about "Bird Tricks". Particularly about them staving their birds when flying them and some of the deceptive and dishonest practices they engage in.

The article is copyright protected so I cannot copy it here (as I would like to so all of the naive would see it). Here is the link to that article.
birdtricksters.com | Liberty Wings
That's really sad. Their marketing today is still gimmicky but I take what I need and leave what I don't.

I will say that this article, and all the linked articles, are at least ten years old. Do you have anything more recent? The tone and practices of BT that I know is different from what is portrayed in these articles, and I'm wondering if they've significantly changed. They're easily the most accessible bird training group I've encountered, especially with their videos on youtube showing a variety of examples and situations for training and problem-solving bird behaviour. Selling training programs isn't unique to BT and I don't find their advertising to be terribly invasive. I'm in Physics and I've always been a big fan of explaining complex topics in simpler terms so they can reach more people, as long as they're still accurate and truthful, and build the base for the more complex topics. Their material might not be worth it for experienced/old guard parrot owners, but it was how I was introduced to bird training and I still find it helpful, illustrative, and informative. Is there something wrong with learning from their material today?
 
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finchly

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Is there something wrong with learning from their material?
Depends on your morals, and your level of trust.

You’re in physics. If someone gave you an equation, say a really simple one and told you they invented it, that one would always solve some problems, and it never worked for you - and you eventually found out it was wrong on purpose - would you trust them?
If that same person offered you an equation years later and said THAT one would solve your problems - are you gonna believe them?

Personally, I don’t think someone with that level of deception belongs anywhere on my radar. Fool me once, shame on you...

@Hankmacaw thank you for the enlightening information.
 

Hankmacaw

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@Alliusis If you are new or relatively new to bird ownership, how do you know what they tell is is right or wrong? I as an owner of parrots for 23 years know that they disseminate a lot of inaccurate and erroneous advice. My majors were microbiology and accounting (later in life). If I learned anything, I learned that mistakes aren't acceptable and if it is wrong, it is wrong. I do lots of research and cross checking.

I recently watch a video by Jamieleigh who sat right there and admitted that they didn't know that birds shouldn't have a 100% fruit diet and fed their birds all fruits while on the road with their show. One of their birds ended up with kidney problems and nearly died. They finally got a clue when a veterinarian told them what they had done wrong.

Now consider this - they were on the road with their birds for a series of shows. Don't you think they would know better than giving a 100% fruit diet - even most of the very newest owners know that is unhealthy. They are pretty ignorant of parrot care. I can't find that video again - wish I could so you all could see just how clueless they really are.

They are not worthy of a first chance, let alone a second chance.
 

AussieBird

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Now consider this - they were on the road with their birds for a series of shows. Don't you think they would know better than giving a 100% fruit diet - even most of the very newest owners know that is unhealthy. They are pretty ignorant of parrot care. I can't find that video again - wish I could so you all could see just how clueless they really are.
Wasn't that one of the 'Worst Parrot Advice'? She did it with Bondi (galah), who was the one who got sick.
 

Hankmacaw

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Yes, it was a Galah.
 

Alliusis

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@Alliusis
I recently watch a video by Jamieleigh who sat right there and admitted that they didn't know that birds shouldn't have a 100% fruit diet and fed their birds all fruits while on the road with their show. One of their birds ended up with kidney problems and nearly died. They finally got a clue when a veterinarian told them what they had done wrong.

Now consider this - they were on the road with their birds for a series of shows. Don't you think they would know better than giving a 100% fruit diet - even most of the very newest owners know that is unhealthy. They are pretty ignorant of parrot care. I can't find that video again - wish I could so you all could see just how clueless they really are.

They are not worthy of a first chance, let alone a second chance.
Yes, they've mentioned that a few times, generally in reference to their diet program (which is one of those things I ignore, because it's a sales push). But again, I don't see issues in their more updated/recent videos, and their training videos are valuable. The comments they make are in line with what my avian vet advises, and the clicker/touch training is very standard. The only exception is, these are accessible videos with follow-ups to see the progress the bird makes. Are there any other varied and accessible videos like that available as an alternative?

As a side note - I totally disagree that all new owners know what to feed birds. I still see people feeding primarily seed diets to their parrots, and there's also the illusion that natural is better. There was a research paper that showed birds even on 25% pellet diet were nutrient deficient, because they consume their favourite veggies and fruit and leave the rest (and there are some nutrients that aren't commonly available in fresh). The fact they were in the business of parrots and didn't know that is bad, but I am ok that they acknowledged their mistake and took their birds to the vet. That isn't clueless, and it was also years ago. I haven't seen much in their current recommendations that gives me any alarm bells, and their training videos seem to be standard but helpful.
 
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Aves

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@Hankmacaw said they are charlatans, and that is so true. On top of that they lure people in with their flashy thumbnails, clickbait...etc. Then they advertise their overpriced bullcrap, and tell viewers their plain stupid methods for quick fixes, or show viewers them "training" people's birds for crazy amounts of money..etc...
[Edit: Sorry if this comes across as mean or hating...]
 
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Farfah

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I see these issues with a lot of these influencers who pose as experts when, in fact, they are at best, hobbyists. I guess BT isn't so different as fitness instagrammers selling fad diets. Yeah, some of their really general advice works but they're just repackaging an existing product to resell while promoting potential harmful info. Other experts will see thru it but a lot of non experts will fall for the flashy marketing.
 

Sparkles99

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"Is there something wrong with learning from their material today?" Personally, I won't knowingly give clicks to people who aren't trustworthy.

It's one thing to have unwittingly starved your birds, found out, & been racked with remorse. It's quite another to have done so deliberately. I wouldn't trust them not to recidivate.

Withholding the basics of life from any animal, minor or vulnerable person under your care is a crime, not to mention morally repugnant. Withholding it from yourself is a diagnosable mental illness.

Pistachio & Marzipan are terrified of hands. I don't know when/ if they'll not be. I would never withhold their sustenance or water as a bribe. I have no qualms about bribing with spray millet, as it isn't, much to their chagrin, a staple of their diet. What differs is the motivation. In my case, tastier food. In the case of starvation, any food.

Taking shortcuts, especially such a drastic one as starving, points to either a lack of knowledge or a willful disdain of the thoughts, feelings & basic physiological drives of someone else. IMO, it borders on pyschopathic as it shows extreme callousness & a worrying lack of empathy.
 

birdy.929

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i am not a fan of bird tricks at all, but i must say that with any parrot youtube channel, you need to take their words with consideration. it is never a good idea to use just one resource to find information on parrot care, and i believe that it is a personal responsibility to fact-check and look at multiple different resources to form your understanding. unfortunately, i think that most “bird influencers” today have misinformation/misjudgment, and that is what is being promoted to their audience.
 

Shezbug

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I’m not sure if the video is still up on YouTube but fairly recently (last 3-4yrs) they had a dove that Dave had to train for their shows and he mentions about training it faster by not leaving food for the bird to freely eat and only feeding the bird out of his hand for every meal.
 

Monica

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They're easily the most accessible bird training group I've encountered, especially with their videos on youtube showing a variety of examples and situations for training and problem-solving bird behaviour.
Some other ideas... maybe not as much info or advice as BT, but just as good, if not better!




I see these issues with a lot of these influencers who pose as experts when, in fact, they are at best, hobbyists. I guess BT isn't so different as fitness instagrammers selling fad diets. Yeah, some of their really general advice works but they're just repackaging an existing product to resell while promoting potential harmful info. Other experts will see thru it but a lot of non experts will fall for the flashy marketing.
That's actually one thing that bothers me... their marketing techniques.

They say "touch training" over "target training."

Or "power pause" instead of "systematic desensitization."


They take already accepted scientific phrases and give them new names. This allowed them to sell "secrets the experts don't want you to know!" in the past because you COULDN'T find out any information on the terms they used! But you could have if you had the proper terms!


I actually came across an article that talked about how successful Dave was at a sales tactic... and using that to make more money. He did this so he could buy an engagement ring for his fiancee. The article even spoke about how he was able to increase the price of his products (and these are the ones I DON'T recommend purchasing!) to increase sales income. If we were talking about cars, boats, houses, whatever, then fine! Sure! That's great! But no... this was in regards to training birds... and it was using aversive/force type training techniques. I hope they no longer sell or make those videos anymore.


I’m not sure if the video is still up on YouTube but fairly recently (last 3-4yrs) they had a dove that Dave had to train for their shows and he mentions about training it faster by not leaving food for the bird to freely eat and only feeding the bird out of his hand for every meal.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing... as long as the diet is still complete. However, it needs to be done with care.

In dogs, this can be a great training tool! Dog is food aggressive? Feed all their meals by hand until they learn not to be food aggressive. Dog isn't motivated to train after eating? Then make them work for their food! Many animals, birds included, may choose to work for their food over being free-fed! So you can make meal times into training times!

My dog? He might do a few reps and then just ignore me... he's not really food or toy motivated... and can easily get bored or not like a food to the point he's literally starving himself and losing weight! :facepalm:

In regards to birds though? Using this method can be kind of tricky... at least with parrots. I mean, an adult dog typically wouldn't eat more than 2-3% of their body weight in a day... but birds need 10-15% at least! That's a lot of food to try and balance out throughout the day... not impossible, but I don't think most people could easily do that. It's easier to take a portion of their diet (say, 10-15% of the diet, rather than 10-15% of their body weight!) and use that as training rewards!
 

Hankmacaw

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@AussieBird Thank you for that correction. I get quite irritated when people do not take what I post precisely - I take care with my words.
 

ringotiel

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super old thread.. but i think bt is a money hungry company and they don’t need to charge hundreds of dollars for their merchandise/training courses and don’t need to advertise it at any given moment. Their social skills and interactions with people are awkward and strange to watch to say the least. more recently, (this is more of a personal thing) they have been completely disregarding the covid pandemic and have been going on vacation and going out with other people without masks and putting their 8 year old daughter in danger by doing so. however some of their training techniques are helpful. their marketing techniques diminish other respectable brands and they have this “holier than thou” attitude about their products (especially their pellets) when it’s no different than many other bird products out there. they have recommended to deprive birds of food. I downloaded one of their free diet conversion PDFs and it said that you can put the new food in there for 12 hours without any other food. This is obviously wrong because some birds have been known to starve rather than eat new food. and they’ve mentioned this themselves! I’ve watched a lot of their videos because i saw the controversy and i wanted to learn more.
 

ringotiel

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Here is what Chris Biro has to say about "Bird Tricks". Particularly about them staving their birds when flying them and some of the deceptive and dishonest practices they engage in.

The article is copyright protected so I cannot copy it here (as I would like to so all of the naive would see it). Here is the link to that article.
https://www.libertywings.com/birdtricksters-com/
it’s a good article. it’s really straightforward which is needed to get this point across.
 

ringotiel

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The pellets they sell are merely repackaged TOPS.
exactly, and in one of their videos they claim that their galah got fatty liver disease on a popular pellet brand. this is their excuse for only trusting their own pellets. the 2 brands that i’ve narrowed it down to is TOPS and Harrison’s. if the fatty liver disease claim is true then it’s more likely that the brand is harrison’s. they’ve trashed this brand before in an old video and i don’t like how they pretty much claim that their pellet is the only pellet that won’t get your bird sick.
 
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