• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

Opinions on BirdTricks?

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
That's really sad. Their marketing today is still gimmicky but I take what I need and leave what I don't.

I will say that this article, and all the linked articles, are at least ten years old. Do you have anything more recent? The tone and practices of BT that I know is different from what is portrayed in these articles, and I'm wondering if they've significantly changed. They're easily the most accessible bird training group I've encountered, especially with their videos on youtube showing a variety of examples and situations for training and problem-solving bird behaviour. Selling training programs isn't unique to BT and I don't find their advertising to be terribly invasive. I'm in Physics and I've always been a big fan of explaining complex topics in simpler terms so they can reach more people, as long as they're still accurate and truthful, and build the base for the more complex topics. Their material might not be worth it for experienced/old guard parrot owners, but it was how I was introduced to bird training and I still find it helpful, illustrative, and informative. Is there something wrong with learning from their material today?
i agree with you, some of their techniques are useful. I find their marketing very pushy and they act like their brand cannot be touched and they are superior to all brands/trainers. be wary of the the techniques you use, sometimes they are harmful or they are just meant to sell their training. I’m an artist so i am used to combining many reference photos to make one original art piece. I do the same with training, i take techniques from many different trainers/bird owners and mash them together. it’s worked well for me and my previous bird.
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
15,796
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
They basically admitted as far as I’m concerned that they had no clue about the nutritional content and differences of pellet brands when they told me they were going to ask someone else’s opinion and advice on the pellets I said I could get my hands on at the time. They had to have someone else check the ingredients for them so they could then tell me which they preferred out of what I could find at the time.
Their choice of pellets to feed their birds is tops (well it was definitely tops at the time of my consult as they told me that’s what they fed) which they now call their pellets as they’ve been given rights to rebrand them, just like Marlene was I guess. Famous you tube stars sell more product than wholesome food companies will.
 

Hankmacaw

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
13,349
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
Their Galah developed fatty liver disease from them feeding it a 100% fruit diet ( thought but didn't remember right that it was kidney disease) over a lengthy period of time. They had their birds on a trip for performing shows and came up with the idea that it would be easier to feed all of their birds 100% fruit. With that much sugar they are lucky it was just one bird. They were doing shows with their birds, but didn't know that a 100% fruit diet is not acceptable and dangerous?? Sugar metabolizes directly to fat and a bird's liver cannot process that much fat.

They are charlatans and ignorant about birds - even today.
 

Sparkles99

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
2,216
Location
Ontario, Canada
I've heard that fatty liver disease can result from metabolizing fat, at least in cats. Is it possible that their bird was also digesting stored fat due to an inadequate diet & thus had a double whammy of a fat producing fruit diet + digesting fat to try to compensate for the inadequate diet?
 

Hankmacaw

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/18/09
Messages
13,349
Location
Arizona
Real Name
Mary Lynn Skinner
That's beyond my knowledge.
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
They basically admitted as far as I’m concerned that they had no clue about the nutritional content and differences of pellet brands when they told me they were going to ask someone else’s opinion and advice on the pellets I said I could get my hands on at the time. They had to have someone else check the ingredients for them so they could then tell me which they preferred out of what I could find at the time.
Their choice of pellets to feed their birds is tops (well it was definitely tops at the time of my consult as they told me that’s what they fed) which they now call their pellets as they’ve been given rights to rebrand them, just like Marlene was I guess. Famous you tube stars sell more product than wholesome food companies will.
but marlene has her name and TOPS and her food is on TOPS website, there is no apparent affiliation with BT and TOPS if you’re just someone scrolling through a pellet brand
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
Their Galah developed fatty liver disease from them feeding it a 100% fruit diet ( thought but didn't remember right that it was kidney disease) over a lengthy period of time. They had their birds on a trip for performing shows and came up with the idea that it would be easier to feed all of their birds 100% fruit. With that much sugar they are lucky it was just one bird. They were doing shows with their birds, but didn't know that a 100% fruit diet is not acceptable and dangerous?? Sugar metabolizes directly to fat and a bird's liver cannot process that much fat.

They are charlatans and ignorant about birds - even today.
exactly, though i have seen that they’ve learned from some mistakes, recently, they tell you to feed birds veggies (especially dark leafy greens) which is one good thing, except they always have to plug in their products.. in this case, their natural feeding system. i do agree that they do not know their stuff about birds. it’s almost like they think they’ve seen everything but then when something new comes along they just wing it. they are learning bird training as they go (literally just like most non-professional bird trainers/knowledgeable bird owners). Of course we can’t know everything and have every experience and i think that they generalize bird owning a little too much.. almost like they have a few different options; 1. you’re an incredible bird owner and do everything that they ask you to, 2. you’re working on it and it’s not great but getting there 3. you think you’re doing good but not actually because you’re doing something slightly off 4. you’re a terrible bird owner and should be lumped in with the bird hoarders and abusers. when in reality, it’s not so black or white. they act like they know the diversity of birds and bird owning but that info doesn’t translate into their videos. My point basically is.. they act as though they are the best and they are “experts” when the only thing that they can be called is (slightly) experienced bird owners so trying to teach another experienced bird owner is like a student teaching the class that they’re in. their attitude about being the best is dangerous for new bird owners and birds
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
15,796
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
but marlene has her name and TOPS and her food is on TOPS website, there is no apparent affiliation with BT and TOPS if you’re just someone scrolling through a pellet brand
I should have been more clear with my words sorry... I should have said that they’ve been given rights to rebrand them as far as I know and understand.
 

AussieBird

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
7/23/20
Messages
1,733
exactly, though i have seen that they’ve learned from some mistakes, recently, they tell you to feed birds veggies (especially dark leafy greens) which is one good thing, except they always have to plug in their products.. in this case, their natural feeding system. i do agree that they do not know their stuff about birds. it’s almost like they think they’ve seen everything but then when something new comes along they just wing it. they are learning bird training as they go (literally just like most non-professional bird trainers/knowledgeable bird owners). Of course we can’t know everything and have every experience and i think that they generalize bird owning a little too much.. almost like they have a few different options; 1. you’re an incredible bird owner and do everything that they ask you to, 2. you’re working on it and it’s not great but getting there 3. you think you’re doing good but not actually because you’re doing something slightly off 4. you’re a terrible bird owner and should be lumped in with the bird hoarders and abusers. when in reality, it’s not so black or white. they act like they know the diversity of birds and bird owning but that info doesn’t translate into their videos. My point basically is.. they act as though they are the best and they are “experts” when the only thing that they can be called is (slightly) experienced bird owners so trying to teach another experienced bird owner is like a student teaching the class that they’re in. their attitude about being the best is dangerous for new bird owners and birds
I feel like they basically say if your birds not on their natural feeding system you are giving them a terrible diet. Just how I feel about it.
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
Yes, they've mentioned that a few times, generally in reference to their diet program (which is one of those things I ignore, because it's a sales push). But again, I don't see issues in their more updated/recent videos, and their training videos are valuable. The comments they make are in line with what my avian vet advises, and the clicker/touch training is very standard. The only exception is, these are accessible videos with follow-ups to see the progress the bird makes. Are there any other varied and accessible videos like that available as an alternative?

As a side note - I totally disagree that all new owners know what to feed birds. I still see people feeding primarily seed diets to their parrots, and there's also the illusion that natural is better. There was a research paper that showed birds even on 25% pellet diet were nutrient deficient, because they consume their favourite veggies and fruit and leave the rest (and there are some nutrients that aren't commonly available in fresh). The fact they were in the business of parrots and didn't know that is bad, but I am ok that they acknowledged their mistake and took their birds to the vet. That isn't clueless, and it was also years ago. I haven't seen much in their current recommendations that gives me any alarm bells, and their training videos seem to be standard but helpful.
that is pretty true but there’s a bit of problems when you watch the videos, obviously not as big as previous. they acknowledged their mistakes and most are fixed. i mentioned this in a previous post on this threat that in their diet conversion PDF, they recommend to offer the food to the bird and leave it in there for 12 hours with no other food. some birds have been known to starve themselves, refusing to eat the new food.
912A3F96-52FF-46E7-81AB-B5AC40A7B9B6.jpeg
of course you need to get the proper nutrition. and seeds, according to the VCA should only be a part of the diet and pellets should be the primary source of food. and of course the seed should be high quality (not with sunflower seeds, millet, or peanuts as those are high in fat)
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
I should have been more clear with my words sorry... I should have said that they’ve been given rights to rebrand them as far as I know and understand.
oh i see.. To me, though, “marlenes signature blend” isn’t so much a rebranding the way i see it, it’s more of a collaboration. With BT pellets, they don’t have TOPS anywhere on there and that’s my problem. they act like their pellets are the best and you should never trust any other pellets but they, in reality are just TOPS
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
I feel like they basically say if your birds not on their natural feeding system you are giving them a terrible diet. Just how I feel about it.
i agree, they act like if you don’t take all of their advice, then you are a terrible bird owner
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
15,796
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
From what I can tell checking both tops and BTs ingredient lists the only difference in ingredients is that TOP's lists pumpkin in their pellets and BT's does not, a few ingredients are not listed in the same order for both lists but the same ingredients are all there (except pumpkin). I am not sure of the labeling requirements for bird food so I am not sure if the ingredients must be listed like human food or if it can be listed in any order instead of in order.
 

Sparkles99

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
2,216
Location
Ontario, Canada
I've heard budgies can starve themselves, ringotiel. I'd never try this 12-hour method with mine. I wish they'd try pellets. I agree with you that that's dangerous advice.
 

Farfah

Walking the driveway
Joined
1/20/21
Messages
171
I've heard budgies can starve themselves, ringotiel. I'd never try this 12-hour method with mine. I wish they'd try pellets. I agree with you that that's dangerous advice.
Agreed, 12 hours is too long for a budgie. They are so tiny and so active. I had a budgie nearly starve to death once because there was something wrong with the food we bought. It was the same food as before but he wouldn’t eat it for some reason and we thought he was sick. Then we bought him a new bag of the same food and he was eating and fine again. It was quite scary and didn’t take more than a day.
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
Agreed, 12 hours is too long for a budgie. They are so tiny and so active. I had a budgie nearly starve to death once because there was something wrong with the food we bought. It was the same food as before but he wouldn’t eat it for some reason and we thought he was sick. Then we bought him a new bag of the same food and he was eating and fine again. It was quite scary and didn’t take more than a day.
exactly, i fed my tiel pellets because he was less active and he was clipped when i got him, my budgies are on a high quality seed because they are very flighty and active (as most budgies are) so they burn a lot more fat than the tiel
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
I've heard budgies can starve themselves, ringotiel. I'd never try this 12-hour method with mine. I wish they'd try pellets. I agree with you that that's dangerous advice.
for me, i feed my tiel TOPS and my budgies a high quality seed because they are very active. they need more fat in their bodies since they burn off more fat
 

Monica

Cruising the avenue
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
5/18/10
Messages
10,976
Location
Hell, NV
Real Name
Monica
Without fresh foods daily, a seed only diet, even for active budgies, could lead to fatty liver disease....

And without fresh foods daily, a pellet based diet could lead to kidney failure in cockatiels...


It would be better if both ate 50/50 of each along with fresh foods daily.
 

TinyDino

Strolling the yard
Joined
1/22/21
Messages
89
Real Name
Holly
Without fresh foods daily, a seed only diet, even for active budgies, could lead to fatty liver disease....

And without fresh foods daily, a pellet based diet could lead to kidney failure in cockatiels...


It would be better if both ate 50/50 of each along with fresh foods daily.
:agreed:

Kidney problems can occur in certain color mutations of budgies as well if fed only pellets (and possibly parrotlets but I can't recall for sure). Our avian vet suggests a similar pellet/seed ratio plus fresh foods.
 

ringotiel

Strolling the yard
Joined
2/16/21
Messages
130
Real Name
vida
Without fresh foods daily, a seed only diet, even for active budgies, could lead to fatty liver disease....

And without fresh foods daily, a pellet based diet could lead to kidney failure in cockatiels...


It would be better if both ate 50/50 of each along with fresh foods daily.
i didn’t include the entire diet. the budgies complete diet is like 50% seed and 50% fresh food (mostly leafy greens like spinach) and of course occasional treats. The tiels diet was pretty much the same except substitute seed with pellet

So you recommend feeding 25% pellets 25% seed, and 50% fresh? just want to clear that up. How would you recommend giving it to them? I give fresh food in the morning and free feed pellets/seeds. i’d love to know if my routine is not the best right now.
 
Top