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Mating?! Inbreeding! Or just standing? Please help, moderately urgent (not very urgent as we are unsure of what we saw.)

KiwiandLemony

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My sister saw my 2 cockatiels standing on one another twice. The 1st time Kiwi (for sure male) was nudging lemony (unsure of gender, but most likely female) to move from her perch so that he could cross (they share a cage) then when lemony wouldn’t move he walked over them, lemony- whose nails need to be trimmed and was on a rope perch- swung and hung upside down after sort of falling. The second time my sister walked in on kiwi on top of lemony and while lemony walked trying to make her fall off or her back. We don’t know if this is mating but we have suspicion. On top of this they are siblings which is pulling from the same gene pool putting potent babies at huge risk, furthermore they are on an all seed diet despite attempts to convert to pellets (amateur breeders weaned them onto seeds) meaning that if Lemony were to have eggs thered is a big risk with calcium deficiency. The main reason against it is that they were born in early March (although Kiwi has had an adult moult already among other signs like courtship- singing excessively whilst following Lemony around on floors-.) We really don’t know and are really concerned about both the babies and lemon, please if you have any advice, all is appreciated and would be extremely helpful,


Thank you,
Kiwi and Lemony
 

KiwiandLemony

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To further clarify current actions to the issue, we are ordering a new cage soon as we will be separating them, for this and other issues like minor conflicts and fighting over food and water, limiting daylight hours and artificial light, taking out anything that may be seen as nesting material or otherwise promoting breeding, keeping them away from dark places and doing further research on the specific topic.
 

Zara

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One bird on top of the other usually is mating. Sometimes the one on the bottom walks a little but not much.
Don´t worry, it is only sex. It is fine for them to partake in.

they are siblings which is pulling from the same gene pool putting potent babies at huge risk
What potential babies? You as their owner and the one who housed them together should take action to ensure no chicks arise from all of this. Don´t worry it is very simple. All you have to do is, should any eggs appear, take them boil them and allow to cool before returning to the cage.
Just so you know, I have a pair of bonded lovies who are siblings and made themselves a little nest today. They have been mating since 5 months old. I won´t be allowing any chicks to come from them though.

they are on an all seed diet despite attempts to convert to pellets
This has little to do with mating. If you have a hen she will lay at some point or another with or without mating.
Have a read of this: Converting Parrots to a Healthier Diet - Tips

The main reason against it is that they were born in early March
Age is irrelevant. It is only important for making sure breeder birds are of age, but if you aren´t going to allow them to breed then it is ok

I hope this helps you, or at least restores some calm :)

edit; If you are unsure about anything, post all your questions. It´s better to talk about your concerns than worry about them. We´re all here to help :)
 
Last edited:

KiwiandLemony

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Sorry @Zara I was incredibly unclear as I usually am with emotions making me rush.
as for potential babies, we will be boiling them. The main issue is that the all seed diet causes a calcium deficiency which results in egg binding, unformed and soft shells which may break while they pass through the hen causing a whole host of issues. we will be taking her to an AAV certified vet. I would also like to be honest as to the fact that they’ve never been to a vet because anxiety *jazz hands* gets in the way of making a simple phone call. My dad has overlapping hours with all AAV vets and can’t call at work. My mom hasn't found the time either so they haven’t been to a vet jeopardizing their health. At this point Ineill just make the phone call, because I’m just using worry and time as a crutch to the fact that they haven’t been to a vet. This is relavant to the fact that they don’t have a regular vet. Another concern is that it’s over thanksgiving that if she is to have an egg, she will, all vets will be closed and egg issues related to a calcium deficiency will occur (24 hours after mating) Due to this I am totally lost and have no idea what to do. I apologize to put you into this situation and any inconvenience associated with it, but I would genuinely appreciate your assistance in regards to the situation.

Thank you.
Kiwi and Lemony.
 

DoubleTake

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Mounting one another is usually pretty obvious. The one on top looks like it is trying to grab love handles. As stated above, you can always abort the eggs since you know they are siblings. If you are worried about calcium, make sure your supplements have magnesium and vitamin d. Dark leafy greens are good if they eat it.

As this is not a diet post, I will refrain from making it one.

One of my fav pics I have taken, this would be just standing.
20180511_114238.jpg
 

KiwiandLemony

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@DoubleTake it was for sure mating, we will abort the eggs because they were mating as stated above, we will be making changes to their diet- or at least try to we’ve been trying since June- but they do have cuttlebone which they use.
 

KiwiandLemony

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@Zara @DoubleTake or anyone else, would it be appropriate to separate them tonight? We don’t have a cage ready and I don’t know if it would be helpful as the egg may alrea be fertile but if it helps them I can set up a safe space and supervise them until the new cage arrives and we can see a vet.
 

Sodapop&Co.

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@Zara @DoubleTake or anyone else, would it be appropriate to separate them tonight? We don’t have a cage ready and I don’t know if it would be helpful as the egg may alrea be fertile but if it helps them I can set up a safe space and supervise them until the new cage arrives and we can see a vet.
It's really not a problem if they mate or have eggs :) Even fertilized eggs. Better to just deal with them when they come than to stress them out trying to avoid it. Let them do their thing ;)
 

KiwiandLemony

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@Sodapop&Co. I understand that but they most likely have a calcium deficiency due to a not great diet, this accompanied by the fact that it’s over thanksgiving weekend and most vets will be closed is inexpressible as to how worrying the thought of Lemony getting hurt or worse.
 

Sodapop&Co.

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@Sodapop&Co. I understand that but they most likely have a calcium deficiency due to a not great diet, this accompanied by the fact that it’s over thanksgiving weekend and most vets will be closed is inexpressible as to how worrying the thought of Lemony getting hurt or worse.
Oh, I understand. But you can't really keep her from laying - even if the eggs are not fertilized if she gets the mood she'll lay. My phoenix is currently sitting on seven of her own (it was terrifying but she did it just fine). Try not to offer a nest and get her a calcium supplement asap is all I can think of.
 

Mizzely

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I would invest in a multivitamin like Hagen Prime (aka Living World Prime) or Nekton to provide the missing vitamins and minerals :)
 

KiwiandLemony

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@Sodapop&Co. thank you, I will be removing potential nesting material, they do not have access to their tray paper, but there isn’t much to do with the calcium besides their preexisting cuttlebone, and vitamin D and magnesium (sun, and minerals mixed with seed mix- we are doing our best to switch them to pellets but to no avail, they were weaned onto Walmart brand seeds from amateur breeders.
 

Zara

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But you can't really keep her from laying - even if the eggs are not fertilized if she gets the mood she'll lay.
Bingo ;)

Don´t separate the birds, they are fine together. You cannot stop a hen laying, she will do it with or without a male.
Plus not all mating results in eggs.

Your main issue should be trying to better their diet.
Maybe try veggies again
I know there are supplements but I don´t know much about those.

Also, do you ahve anyone who can help you with the vet? a friend or a different family member? Even just to be with you while you do it
 

KiwiandLemony

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@Zara i will try veggies again, I can mash and warm pellets as that worked in the past however I stoped almost as soon as I started in fear of promoting mating and regurgitating.
 

KiwiandLemony

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@Mizzely thank you, I will see if my local bird store has some similar to what @Sodapop&Co. stated earlier but due to thanksgivings won’t be able to until Friday.
Apologies I was once again unclear and my 10 minutes to edit expired, I went further into detail-

@Mizzely thank you, I will see if my local bird store has some similar to what @Sodapop&Co. stated earlier but due to thanksgivings won’t be able to until Friday. They aLeo have cuttlebone and adequate sunlight for vitamin d and magnesium mixed with their seed mix (pellets mixed with the seeds). I will be ordering a new cage to discourage this and other issues like conflicts over food dishes, toys, and just fighting in general but I don’t know if that would be wrong of me. They don’t appear to be mates in any other situation, in fact Lemony seems to heavily dislike kiwi-running away from him and such. should I separate them?
 

Sodapop&Co.

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@Zara i will try veggies again, I can mash and warm pellets as that worked in the past however I stoped almost as soon as I started in fear of promoting mating and regurgitating.
I would recommend not hindering their natural behaviors this much in the future. I get you're worried about calcium but you can fix that easily (once you can get a supplement or better mineral block) and after that just let them do what they want. If they bond and feed each other, mate, etc; that's great for them!
 
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