TBD Cause of 11 Bird Deaths

[jmfleish]

So I have this clear there was 11 birds at Shannon's, 3 at Tanya's, how many possible birds across the USA????

I don't think you can really account for any other birds across the USA. I haven't heard of another single case where the food was tested and necropsies were done to prove that food killed birds in any other cases. The only thing we have to go on with Tanya and Shannon's case is that they have food in common and they have symptoms in common and that they lost birds at the same time. While that seems similar, it could still be different reasons for death. Unfortunately, we don't have a necropsy from Tanya and Tanya thought it was the cuttlebone which she did have tested. She didn't think about the food until it was too late, so the food wasn't tested. Remember, Shannon had the food tested and it tested safe. If there was anything on the bag, one would think it would have also tested positive on the food as well.

 

[Mizzely]

It tested negative for likely / common poisons etc.

 

[painesgrey]

It tested negative for likely / common poisons etc.

From the Rescue's FB post in January:

Food has been cleared of any metal/fungal/additive toxins. Waiting for Dept of Ag to give us what else to test for in the food.

From my understanding, the Rescue is now maintaining it was possibly some kind of mycotoxin (fungal toxin) - specifically chratoxin A and citrinin that are currently being tested for (from what I've heard). If the rescue itself stated that the laboratory reports from January came back clear of any fungal toxins, what's the point of going back and re-testing for mycotoxins at this point? Or are they reneging their statement that it was cleared of "any" toxins?

 

[jmfleish]

It tested negative for likely / common poisons etc.

If the foods tested negative for likely/common poisons, then why is only Zupreem the single food that is still on the line? Don't you find that strange? Why can they rule out two of the three but go on bashing Zupreem? It's also incredibly interesting that Higgins is now their number one fan and propping them up.

 

[webchirp]

If the foods tested negative for likely/common poisons, then why is only Zupreem the single food that is still on the line? Don't you find that strange? Why can they rule out two of the three but go on bashing Zupreem?

This is what bothers me...same tests on all, same conclusion. Yet higgins was added three days after the zupreem. I would think it was the higgins at that point.

 

[rocky'smom]

I don't think you can really account for any other birds across the USA. I haven't heard of another single case where the food was tested and necropsies were done to prove that food killed birds in any other cases. The only thing we have to go on with Tanya and Shannon's case is that they have food in common and they have symptoms in common and that they lost birds at the same time. While that seems similar, it could still be different reasons for death. Unfortunately, we don't have a necropsy from Tanya and Tanya thought it was the cuttlebone which she did have tested. She didn't think about the food until it was too late, so the food wasn't tested. Remember, Shannon had the food tested and it tested safe. If there was anything on the bag, one would think it would have also tested positive on the food as well.

Sorry I am still going to ask, it isn't on the web site and I am fed up with there is no case there is case, the back and forth its bugging the a $#/^out of me.

 

[painesgrey]

If the foods tested negative for likely/common poisons, then why is only Zupreem the single food that is still on the line? Don't you find that strange? Why can they rule out two of the three but go on bashing Zupreem? It's also incredibly interesting that Higgins is now their number one fan and propping them up.

From what I've been told elsewhere, their beef with Zupreem is because of this:

Zupreem, unlike Higgins and Lafeber, hasn't done their own testing after the fact.They went back to their original tests of a batch that had 350,000 lbs of feed in that batch and looked at the results and claimed it's fine.That is what Zupreem has done.
Unlike Higgins and Lafeber--who sent their batches back to get retested.

Basically, because Zupreem allegedly hasn't gone back to retest their food themselves, they're the only ones that could be to blame. I just don't understand how this conclusion can be drawn when MSU's independent tests, as announced by Higgins, concluded that all three "thoroughly mixed" foods contained "no toxic organic compounds, drug, pesticides, industrial compound residues or heavy metals were present and nothing that would account for the acute death loss."

It's a terrible situation for sure, but more than anything I wish people would stop speculating as to potential causes (and risk receiving cease & desist letters or, even worse, defamation suits) and just stick to what can be proven. It's more than likely any tests are going to come back as inconclusive, and no one will ever have any definitive answers.

Sorry for any typos. Cake decided to march across the keyboard several times while I typed this.

 

[Donna turner]

Well, I love my girl with all my heart and I have tried for months to get her to eat other kinds of pellets. She starved herself rather than giving in so at this point I'm tired of stressing and so is she. When I run out of her zupreem I'm going to get more. I'm thankful for the rescue posting that it is only those two batches to worry about, it makes me feel better. As far as the company zupreem goes , I don't have a problem with them unless it turned out they knew something was wrong and did nothing. I see no reason to believe that at this time. After all, the food has been tested and found safe so far. Did Higgins or laferty? Pull a recall on their batches ? No. So if your going to blame zupreem you might as well blame the others too.

 

[Garet]

That is different rescue @Garet. Shannon is at Bird and Beaks, Tanya is different rescue.

So I have this clear there was 11 birds at Shannon's, 3 at Tanya's, how many possible birds across the USA????

If both cases are believed to be caused by the Zupreem pellets, what happened in one case is still relevant to the other.

Do we know how many other birds at Tanya's place also ate the Zupreem?

 

[rocky'smom]

@Theresa Tanya had 4 and lost 3 correct?

 

[Theresa]

If both cases are believed to be caused by the Zupreem pellets, what happened in one case is still relevant to the other.

Do we know how many other birds at Tanya's place also ate the Zupreem?

That particular food was only given to those 4.

@Theresa Tanya had 4 and lost 3 correct?

Yes.

 

[Garet]

@Theresa Do you know what happened to the first? Asymptomatic or did the poor birb have symptoms as well? Do you know if she only fed them Zupreeme or a mix of different pellets like the other rescue did?

 

[Theresa]

@Theresa Do you know what happened to the first? Asymptomatic or did the poor birb have symptoms as well? Do you know if she only fed them Zupreeme or a mix of different pellets like the other rescue did?

Bug was ill, but I honestly can't remember how ill. He has since fully recovered. If I remember I'll ask Tanya.

 

[rocky'smom]

Please send my love to Tanya @Theresa. I can't imagine the pain that she and her hubby have gone through. The goes towards Shannon the loss is unbelievable and just heartbreaking

 

[jmfleish]

Interesting post on FB from the Oasis Sanctuary who uses Zupreem a lot:

 

[Just-passn-thru]

Thank you @jmfleish , good to have sound information on this.

 

[rocky'smom]

Ok update neither Dr Tony or myself have heard back from the FDA. I am going to call the local FDA on Monday. I find it even more frustrating that they don't return your phone calls. I get that they are busy but don't tell me. 5 business days if you don't plan to return the call...

 

[Mizzely]

Update from today:

Over the past few days I've had a few people say "I'll quit feeding those batches of food when I see proof it was the food that killed your birds."

Sadly, some of those people will likely get that proof.

Again. 2 batches of food. We're not against Zupreem. We're not even telling you not to feed it. All we're saying is birds died here. Birds died in at least 2 other rescues after feeding those batches. Birds died in a bunch of private households across the US after feeding new bags.

The FDA is still actively doing necropsies, histopathologies and testing foods for birds across the nation.

They are looking for a needle in a haystack. It's incredibly hard to identify a toxin that is not obvious.

You do what you want for your birds - but this has been our experience.

"I've been feeding this food for 20+ years without a problem."

Yeah. Me too. I fed that pellet for 20+ years without a problem too. Right up until there was one and I lost 11 birds in one night.

You guys have the information. Do with it what you will. But if you're asking for proof before you stop feeding it - I'm going to be heartbroken for you if you get it in a real life scenario.

The most recent death reported to us was yesterday. Gal gets food from the bulk bin. Zupreem Fruit. Feeds her 3 macaws. 2 wouldn't touch it. 1 gobbled it. The one who gobbled it died of the same symptoms yesterday morning. My heart bleeds for her.

2 batches. That's it. Use a different batch. Feed Zupreem Naturals. Just avoid those two batches. Is this so tough?

10287 865309107 Use By: 3/31/19

09137 862908047 Use by: 2/28/19

 

[Hjarta5]

Thanks for posting the update @Mizzely

Also, this is neither here nor there, but as a general practice, I would not buy pellets from the bulk bin. When I first found Wally on the street, I called a local rescue number I found on the internet and the woman I spoke to advised me to buy some from a pet store in town. I did this for the first few months I had Wally, but after I bought my first bag of Tropican pellets, I immediately noticed a difference in the quality. I understand it may be a financially-driven decision to buy from the bulk bin, but I think theres more opportunities for contamination.

 

[AkasyaEllric]

Thanks for posting the update @Mizzely

Also, this is neither here nor there, but as a general practice, I would not buy pellets from the bulk bin. When I first found Wally on the street, I called a local rescue number I found on the internet and the woman I spoke to advised me to buy some from a pet store in town. I did this for the first few months I had Wally, but after I bought my first bag of Tropican pellets, I immediately noticed a difference in the quality. I understand it may be a financially-driven decision to buy from the bulk bin, but I think theres more opportunities for contamination.

Totally agree with this. We use to buy from the bulk bin as well but not even taking contamination into account, the food was stale and most of the time after a week or so would have bugs. It's not worth it in the long run.