Insightful article on pellets!

[BeeBop]

Question! Do you take vitamins and supplements every day? Simple question. Why would you do this to such a small animal that, does not need to be treated that way either.

@clawnz You have me very confused. Are you saying people don't take vitamins every day? Because I'm one of the many many people who does. I do think that it would be accurate to reason that if you don't eat multivitamins as whole meals your parrot shouldn't. However you definitely should have worded that claim better IMO.

 

[clawnz]

@clawnz You have me very confused. Are you saying people don't take vitamins every day? Because I'm one of the many many people who does. I do think that it would be accurate to reason that if you don't eat multivitamins as whole meals your parrot shouldn't. However you definitely should have worded that claim better IMO.

I am sorry to hear you have to do this.
Not sure WHY you have to take vitamins every day. I am fairly confident that good healthy people on decent diets DO NOT take added supplements or vitamins.
I certainly DO NOT. I never take any medications, same as I do with the birds, unless there is very good reason. Even then I will work with natural if possible. And in most cases it is often possible using holistic ways.
I hope we are all aware of the dangers of these.

Here is a classic example: Jack & Jill on their first AV vet check showed traces of staphylococci. We did not panic and my AV thought that this may clear with just the diet I feed. A week later they were still positive. (Insert I may of been expecting too much in such a short time). So we added a probiotic and kept the same diet. Next check they were tested clear.
How many other vets would of gone straight to antibiotics?

 

[Irishj9]

Good healthy people on decent diets get ill all the time.

The viruses and bacteria which cause these illnesses evolved with us, and will ocassionally infect us whether we eat a decent diet or not. Stand near a person who has flu and see if your diet protects you. a good diet is only one factor in your recovery rate.

Mother Nature does not care whether 100,000 birds or 100,000 humans live or die. She allows our attackers ( viruses, bacteria etc) to evolve with us in an endless arms race for supremacy with the strongest surviving. This is 'natural'. Cancer is natural. Ebola is natural.

Given that birds show their illnesses much later in the infection cycle than humans, things can get very serious very fast.

In this environment, with my baby fighting for survival, and time against me, probiotics will be WELL DOWN my list.

PARTICULARLY if antibiotics are reccommended by a trusted avian vet.

 

[BeeBop]

I am sorry to hear you have to do this.
Not sure WHY you have to take vitamins every day. I am fairly confident that good healthy people on decent diets DO NOT take added supplements or vitamins.
I certainly DO NOT. I never take any medications, same as I do with the birds, unless there is very good reason. Even then I will work with natural if possible. And in most cases it is often possible using holistic ways.
I hope we are all aware of the dangers of these.

Here is a classic example: Jack & Jill on their first AV vet check showed traces of staphylococci. We did not panic and my AV thought that this may clear with just the diet I feed. A week later they were still positive. (Insert I may of been expecting too much in such a short time). So we added a probiotic and kept the same diet. Next check they were tested clear.
How many other vets would of gone straight to antibiotics?

I take B12 and adrenal support mainly because of low energy. Magenisum for digestion. Also vitamin D and acidophilus just for immune support. I know of a lot of people that take multivitamins or some kind of supplemental thing. Good healthy people that don't need vitamins, don't have a wheat (including me)/dairy/etc. allergy are far and few in between in my experience. Absorption problems. Also just because you eat a decent diet doesn't mean you get all the nutrients. Many people can't absorb some vitamins from food - not that parrots have that problem. So I do in a way agree with your reasoning on parrots but you should not have connected your claim to human nutrition.

 

[Irishj9]

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT A GOOD DECENT DIET IS FOR HUMANS, much less birds.

There are only pointers, which change weekly. One week fats are bad, the next they are good, the next only certain fats are good etc.

Exercise is good, but not too much (what is too much). Sugar is good, no its bad?, or was that salt?

This good healthy person exists only in your imagination.

 

[Mizzely]

My child is on a multivitamin with iron per his doctor because he doesn't eat a lot of meat and is lower than he should be according to his blood test. He eats really well - he will choose water over juice, one of his favorite snacks is carrots and hummus, and he eats eggs no matter how they are prepared. He will eat fruits and vegetables until he is stuffed. He just doesn't like most iron rich foods as much as fruits and vegetables, so he needs help.

Sounds a lot like my parrots.

They eat about 50-70% pellets depending on the day and what's on offer and they are healthy according to their vet. I'm comfortable feeding pellets. If you're not and your parrots are doing fine, congrats. This is what works for us and not because I'm lazy or unable to feed a fresh diet.

 

[BeeBop]

@Eloy I honestly don't even know how to answer one by one all these questions. I will answer the few I think are nesscary. 1. Yes I do take blood tests. 2. Yes people have absorption problems. Im not sure what's the hang up here, I've come across at least a handful
of people with that problem. And there has been medical things published on it. It's especially prevalent with people who can't eat wheat. And I am by no means unhealthy or eating a bad diet, just need a few things to keep me in top-shape.
Edit: Also food is not the same as it was 20-30 years ago. Meat production is rushed, veggies are loaded with pesticides and picked early, there is no way your getting the same nutrients.

 

[LunaLovebird]

@Eloy I honestly don't even know how to answer one by one all these questions. I will answer the few I think are nesscary. 1. Yes I do take blood tests. 2. Yes people have absorption problems. Im not sure what's the hang up here, I've come across at least a handful
of people with that problem. And there has been medical things published on it. It's especially prevalent with people who can't eat wheat. And I am by no means unhealthy or eating a bad diet, just need a few things to keep me in top-shape.

Just re the B12. It is absorbed by a certain cet of cells in the small intestine, which excrete a protein called intrinsic factor. If you have a problem with those cells, or with the formation of that protein, or an autoimmune disease called pernicious anemia, you will absolutely have problems absorbing B12. If you don't eat meat, you won't get enough. In the case of pernicious anemia, supplements often don't work and you need injections. I do agree that most people don't need multivitamins if you're eating a proper diet, but some people can't eat the things they need to get the requisite nutrients. Most people don't need half the supplements they take, really. But some people do.

 

[LunaLovebird]

Perhaps not a bad diet, but definitively a wrong diet if you don't get what you need.

Can you post the result from your blood test? Both from before and after you tried to eat more healthy from what you body needed more of.

But not from chemicals? You didn't answer any of that questions.

I really feel that this is wholly inappropriate of you. Their blood tests are none of your business. Their diet is none of your business. And this thread is not the place to be blasting someone over how they get their daily intake of vitamins.

 

[Mizzely]

Re: absorption issues. For some reason many relatives on my mom's side have an issue absorbing potassium. It's a known issue. They can eat potassium rich foods all day and still have symptoms (twitching and sore muscles, some have had to be hospitalized) and they do have to take supplements for it. Per their doctor, they have to take 3-4 time as much as "normal" to feel normal. I don't know what the cause is but they all need to take "chemical vitamins".

 

[aooratrix]

Best that the dialogue returns to a discussion of pellets, not personal health questions. This is not the venue for that discussion. Stick to the original content of the thread, please.

 

[BeeBop]

Yes, this is a thread about parrots, and I'm not supposed to be the focus of it. I do understand diet is fascinating and such, but I don't feel comfortable telling the whole forum my blood results, just for some sort of point to be gained.

 

[faislaq]

When we first got birds, we Googled everything before we gave it to them. I was trying to find out of parrots can have cereal, and I read somewhere that if a bird is on a mainly pelleted diet, that too much cereal can be dangerous as both cereals and pellets are often fortified with iron. I'm not sure where I read it (I just tried searching again and cannot find it), but I'd like to hear what the members here have read or know about this.

I hate to bring up a painful memory, but I was just reading about Tyrion's Loki and saw that the vet believed it was metal toxicity and Annette felt certain a lifetime of nothing but pellets might be to blame. So, first of all, could Hemochromaosis (correct word?) have similar symptoms as metal toxicity? It would affect the liver, right? And could a lifetime of nothing but pellets with no other foods contribute to her illness? I think it is possible that Annette could be onto something. Possibly some brands may have higher iron than others, intended for birds with different needs? I wouldn't be afraid to feed pellets, but I think it is unwise to feed any animal one food exclusively.

 

[Mizzely]

I'm not aware of a parrot pellet with added iron. Some of the ingredients may have naturally occurring iron:

Very good sources of nonheme iron, with 3.5 milligrams or more per serving, include:

• 
  
• One cup of cooked beans
• One-half cup of tofu
• 1 ounce of pumpkin, sesame, or squash seeds

Good sources of nonheme iron, with 2.1 milligrams or more per serving, include:

• One-half cup of canned lima beans, red kidney beans, or chickpeas
• One cup of dried apricots
• One medium baked potato
• One cup of cooked enriched egg noodles
• One-fourth cup of wheat germ

Other sources of nonheme iron, with 0.7 milligrams or more, include:

• One-half cup of cooked split peas
• 1 ounce of peanuts, pecans, walnuts, pistachios, roasted almonds, roasted cashews, or sunflower seeds
• One-half cup of dried seedless raisins, peaches, or prunes
• One medium stalk of broccoli
• One cup of raw spinach
• One cup of pasta (cooked, it becomes 3-4 cups)
• One slice of bread, half of a small pumpernickel bagel, or bran muffin
• One cup of brown or enriched rice

Iron rich foods, combined especially with a high vitamin c intake, can indeed contribute to iron storage disease.

"You can prevent iron storage disease by balancing the amount of iron and vitamins in your bird's diet; commercial food is good for this purpose. Another way to prevent this condition is to avoid giving certain iron-rich or vitamin C- or vitamin A-rich food to your bird.

Low-iron foods are: peach, honeydew melon, skinless apple, and plum. High-iron foods that should not be given because of its vitamin C or A content are: papaya, mango, banana, squash, and skinless boiled potato. On their own, these foods do not cause iron storage disease. But given with food rich in vitamins C and A like citrus fruits, beetroot, carrots, chili pepper and spinach, they can lead to excessive iron in the body.

Foods that you must avoid completely are: foods supplemented with extra iron like baby food, juices and nectars, animal food, and any other commercial human food with extra iron."

MOST pellets will recommend feeding a small amount of other foods with it, as their studies are done with their food being a significant portion of the diet. Most vets will recommend adding veggies and fruit too. Very few recommend pellets be 100% of the diet.

 

[faislaq]

I'm glad you weighed in on this @Mizzely. Thank you for straightening me out on this. It is entirely possible that I either read an unreliable source or more likely scrambled an overload of info in my poor addled brain. I think I read more about birds in the first week with Pistachio than my entire life before him.

 

[Mizzely]

You are not totally off base though @faislaq . Synthetic vitamins can be overdosed. A good example is Vitamin A, or really any fat soluble vitamin, as they are stored in the body. Pellets ARE Vitamin A fortified as they need a lot of it. However, feeding OTHER fortified foods (like cereal) in conjunction with pellets COULD theoretically provide a chance for overdose.

 

[clawnz]

If any bird is on a high percentage pellet diet. There are any number of things to look out for, not to feed.
But hopefully we have come to understand pellet are not some sort of magic bullet. And birds do far better on a natural fresh food diet.
And those who are still into believing the manufactures that their processed foods are better, I hope this is 25% or less.
And for those who only feed just a few pellets? Well you are wasting your time, as they are designed (By there own advertising) to be any good (Cough) if served as 80% or more complete diet. (Poor birds). Top being the only so called pellet I know of that is made from natural foods with No Processed stuff, that I would never feed my bird.
Do Not add any extra Calcium.
Do not add Citrus.

 

[Tyrion]

I hate to bring up a painful memory, but I was just reading about Tyrion's Loki and saw that the vet believed it was metal toxicity and Annette felt certain a lifetime of nothing but pellets might be to blame. So, first of all, could Hemochromaosis (correct word?) have similar symptoms as metal toxicity? It would affect the liver, right? And could a lifetime of nothing but pellets with no other foods contribute to her illness? I think it is possible that Annette could be onto something. Possibly some brands may have higher iron than others, intended for birds with different needs? I wouldn't be afraid to feed pellets, but I think it is unwise to feed any animal one food exclusively.

Even though the one vet felt that it was metal toxicity due to initial physical findings they were not fully felt due to the blood work up or necropsy ...there were several questions that were not answered by either blood work up or necropsy ...and after talking to other vets it was felt that a there was a strong possibility she died due to being fed pellets exclusivity for 11 years ...not only was her liver involved but so was her heart ....feeding any one thing alone will always cause you problems ...pellets alone are not a balanced diet ...there is no real balanced diet for parrots as far as I know of ...but I know feeding raw whole foods is as close as I can get ...I could go right back into the whole reasoning why but it would just start the whole old debate between raw whole foods and pellets and I have long since decided ...to leave each to his/her own... I will always believe that Loki died the way she died and I will never feed another pellet to my fids ...

 

[clawnz]

It is very unlikely you are going to get any vet that pushes pellets, is going anywhere near, saying it could of been due to pellets.
But I am betting more birds have died or got sick due to being fed pellets than we know of.
Sorry Tyrion. I feel your pain. It must hard talking about it.
And i thank you for speaking out.
I still cannot talk too much about Dexter and the other seven 2+ yrs on.

 

[Tyrion]

It is very unlikely you are going to get any vet that pushes pellets, is going anywhere near, saying it could of been due to pellets.
But I am betting more birds have died or got sick due to being fed pellets than we know of.
Sorry Tyrion. I feel your pain. It must hard talking about it.
And i thank you for speaking out.
I still cannot talk too much about Dexter and the other seven 2+ yrs on.

Yes it is very hard to talk about it but not for the reasons some might think ..yes Loki was a dear friend but its hard because like you I am sure there are more birds suffering being fed pellets then anyone knows or wants to know ...I recently saw one of Jason Creans talks on Raw whole foods and it really hit home how much damage the whole processed food industry has done and is still doing to our beloved animals ...if I wasnt already feeding raw whole foods I would be after that talk ...and Im going to find it in the budget to transfer my fur kids over to raw as well ...it just not worth the possibility of all the issues that can pop up with feeding processed foods