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Insightful article on pellets!

EkkieLuv

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This is a great read! I'm in the no-pellet camp. My ekkies won't eat them, anyway. I once tried a few different kinds because I was worried they weren't getting everything they needed from fresh foods... but they mostly crunched them up and wasted them. The BCCs I have were raised on a partially pelleted diet so I continue to offer them in their seed mix. Given a choice, they eat what my ekkies eat and the pellets collect dust. Considering there are a lot of people out there who simply don't know any better - pellets are better than a bowl of sunflower seeds - education is everything...

Pellets-Yes Or No
 

Milo

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Education is everything, yes. This article is clearly biased and not offering a comparison but the classic "why should I trust something formulated in a lab" argument that I see people fall back on so often. The article itself is featured on a site that is advertising for the supplements mentioned in the article, shouldn't you find that problematic? I would be more inclined to trust this article if it were from an independent source (or referenced them with links) or offered some nutritional information along with its criticism of pelleted food.

A few other points to consider: we are only just now reaching a stage where "senior" parrots are being seen in the population. I'm still of the opinion that we don't truly know how to feed pet parrots. You can say "I feed this and my bird is looking great" but generally they're still a youngster comparatively speaking. There are a few things that you won't know are a problem until they are. For instance: Atherosclerosis is a huge one, people feeding meats and cheese (even as little as 1% of their diet) are putting their birds at an increased risk but you may not see the symptoms of that until your bird is middled aged to senior.

This article seems to scoff at the idea of pellets being compared to a seed only diet but that is the reality I see. I think that we tend to get wrapped up in the idea that every bird owner out there is like some of the people here on AA. The fact of the matter is that they are not. The majority of pet birds out there don't even receive veterinary care. Education is one of the most important factors in parrot ownership, but the owners have to be willing to provide that varied diet as well. I see it on a weekly and sometimes daily basis, birds that have been surviving on a poor diet for their entire lives (sometimes into their 20s) and the delicate balance they had just gives out. The owners are usually distraught and some even try to treat their birds. They've "tried" to offer a healthy diet but the bird only wants those seeds and so that's what they get. Pellets are a way to fill in that gap for these birds and it drives me absolutely crazy that no one seems to acknowledge that. The reality that so many pet birds live in.
 

Lara608

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Thank you for posting this! I am a newbie and have been trying to figure out what the best diet is for my pionus. Right now she gets some seed mix, some chop, some sprouts, some pellets, frozen veggies and berries and a taste of whatever I might be eating. The only pellets she'll entertain are the Intune pellets. Some days she eats them. Some days not.

I am very interested in what supplements (if any) you use. I hesitate to put them in her water, but she is a very good eater and would be a good candidate for something that is able to be sprinkled on food. Thanks again for the article!
 

JLcribber

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Ekkies have a unique diet and system from other parrots. Pellets aren't really that good for "them" anyway.

There's nothing wrong with pellets. They are "part" of the overall varied diet. Not fed exclusively.
 

Vera

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I have been in the no pellet camp,but my parrotlets waste all the fresh food and chop. Only thing they eat are sprouted seeds and cooked grains and pulses.
I want them to stay as healthy as possible and want to provide all the nutrients they need.
Problem is,nobody knows what they do need exactly.
I don't like to feed a pellet with synthetic vitamins etc. But i think they do need it because their diet is not varied enough.

I choose to feed 40%pellets,half top,half harrisons. Rest is sprouted seeds,grains and pulses,cooked grains and pulses,dehydrated veggies and herbs and a organic seedmix.
Best of both worlds i hope, i can't trust on pellets only.
 

Karen

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Education is everything, yes. This article is clearly biased and not offering a comparison but the classic "why should I trust something formulated in a lab" argument that I see people fall back on so often. The article itself is featured on a site that is advertising for the supplements mentioned in the article, shouldn't you find that problematic? I would be more inclined to trust this article if it were from an independent source (or referenced them with links) or offered some nutritional information along with its criticism of pelleted food.

A few other points to consider: we are only just now reaching a stage where "senior" parrots are being seen in the population. I'm still of the opinion that we don't truly know how to feed pet parrots. You can say "I feed this and my bird is looking great" but generally they're still a youngster comparatively speaking. There are a few things that you won't know are a problem until they are. For instance: Atherosclerosis is a huge one, people feeding meats and cheese (even as little as 1% of their diet) are putting their birds at an increased risk but you may not see the symptoms of that until your bird is middled aged to senior.

This article seems to scoff at the idea of pellets being compared to a seed only diet but that is the reality I see. I think that we tend to get wrapped up in the idea that every bird owner out there is like some of the people here on AA. The fact of the matter is that they are not. The majority of pet birds out there don't even receive veterinary care. Education is one of the most important factors in parrot ownership, but the owners have to be willing to provide that varied diet as well. I see it on a weekly and sometimes daily basis, birds that have been surviving on a poor diet for their entire lives (sometimes into their 20s) and the delicate balance they had just gives out. The owners are usually distraught and some even try to treat their birds. They've "tried" to offer a healthy diet but the bird only wants those seeds and so that's what they get. Pellets are a way to fill in that gap for these birds and it drives me absolutely crazy that no one seems to acknowledge that. The reality that so many pet birds live in.
Well said! I would agree, we don't know.

These type of articles are always quick to point out negatively that pellets are formulated for all when we really don't know with any certainty what each individual species need. The same can be said for seeds, vegetables, fruits and grains. We don't know what varieties, combinations, ratios, how much or what kinds to feed. It's ALL; pellet, seeds, supplements, fresh or a combination of all or any, A GUESS.
 

Hankmacaw

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Like you said @EkkieLuv, the article is mostly Anecdotal with little to no research nor comparative trials cited. Pellets have (some pellets) have been studied and comparative research has been performed and peer reviewed. Roudybush started trials 30-40 years ago and Dr. Harrison continually performs research. Additionally, they are both outstanding avian veterinarians. Seeds (small seeds) are of no value for our big birds, because they aren't dehulled and the big guys don't get any value from them.

I think that many if not most of the AA members have decided that feeding some pellets, fresh vegetable, fresh fruit and some grains are the best for their birds. When new studies and research comes along we will probably reconsider our birds' diets. In addition to the foods, many of us feed Red Palm Oil and/or Flax Oil (flax seed is of no value unless boiled) for the Omega 3 and 6 and plethora of other Vit/Min in them.

My Jasper has pellets available at all times and she probably eats 10 - 12 Harrison's High Potency pellets every day, along with her fresh foods and rice quinoa mix, a walnut and 4/5 almonds, and I'm happy with that. Because of her chronic health problems - caused by the worst diet you can imagine for the first six years of her life - she goes to the vet every 6 months and her CBC (with the exception of WBC) and Chem Panel have been well within norms for many years.
 

Milo

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Like you said @EkkieLuv, the article is mostly Anecdotal with little to no research nor comparative trials cited. Pellets have (some pellets) have been studied and comparative research has been performed and peer reviewed. Roudybush started trials 30-40 years ago and Dr. Harrison continually performs research. Additionally, they are both outstanding avian veterinarians. Seeds (small seeds) are of no value for our big birds, because they aren't dehulled and the big guys don't get any value from them.
I said that... not Leslie ;)
 

Hankmacaw

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Sorry - I was looking at the green head. Of course, I could claim the infirmities of age - LOL
 

Mizzely

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We definitely don't know yet how to feed parrots yet, truly. There is so little information on what they actually need. Most studies are based on chicken feeding, and conjectures made based on other animals.

The wild parrot diet is near impossible to recreate with what we have available, especially anywhere outside of their natural habitat region. Even if we could, we need to remember that the wild parrot does something 99% of captive parrots don't - fly miles and miles everyday. In this situation, it can actually be more harmful to feed them what they will eat in the wild vs a more domestic diet. They simply don't need as much energy.

I find Dr. Scott Echols a good source for this. He actually has done research in the field on wild parrot diets. I remember one time he talked about observing Amazon parrots feeding off of a dead animal carcass. In the wild, they are opportunistic and eat what they can to survive. In captivity, we know that this type of diet would put the bird on a path for heart disease. A lot of other foods they are found to be eating are immature fruits, and even items known to be toxic. (The idea that the clay negates this toxin has been refuted, and it has been found that clay is instead a way they supplement sodium in their diet since the rain washes much out of it out of the ground and thus doesn't get drawn up into the plants they eat.) And when it is said that parrots eat a lot of "fruit" these are very different than the fruit we buy at the grocery store on so many levels, as they have been cultivated to appeal to human tastes, and we really like sweet!

"In culinary terminology, a fruit is usually any sweet-tasting plant part, especially a botanical fruit; a nut is any hard, oily, and shelled plant product; and a vegetable is any savory or less sweet plant product.[5] However, in botany, a fruit is the ripened ovary or carpel that contains seeds, a nut is a type of fruit and not a seed, and a seed is a ripened ovule. Examples of culinary "vegetables" and nuts that are botanically fruit include corn, cucurbits (e.g., cucumber, pumpkin, and squash), eggplant, legumes (beans, peanuts, and peas), sweet pepper, and tomato."
Fruit - Wikipedia


Here is a thread from Dr. Echols' group, Nutrition for Pets, that I find a good read:

Log into Facebook | Facebook

At the end of the day, I feed pellets and supplement with fresh food. I live where getting sunlight on the birds is only really possible 3-4 months out of the year, so Vitamin D3 is something they absolutely need to have supplemented. I also know that my birds do not eat everything I give them, so even if I was able to carefully balance everything, some of the nutrients we know without a doubt they need might be missing. It's not like cat food where we have a lot larger body of knowledge to work from, and even then we are still finding out new things about them and what they need! And they have been domesticated for 10,000 years. Parrots are still wild animals.
 
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Odin

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I do pellets, fresh and seed. Good article!
 

Pipsqueak

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Let's face it, pellets are mainly created because people are lazy and don't feed their animals fresh foods, heck I do know a lot of people that do not eat anything fresh themselves. Pellets are convenient and give more of what the animal needs than seeds etc. My fresh feeding has another huge down side, it is messy, with the birds and our dog. The amount of cleaning I do is insane but we don't want it any other way now. Preparing the food is time intense too and it doesn't last as long, more shopping and more cooking. Yesterday I cooked the sweet potatoes for the week for our dog and the birds and then made fries for the kids :)
 

Pipsqueak

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We definitely don't know yet how to feed parrots yet, truly. There is so little information on what they actually need. Most studies are based on chicken feeding, and conjectures made based on other animals.

The wild parrot diet is not only near impossible to recreate with what we have available, especially anywhere outside of their natural habitat region. Even if we could, we need to remember that the wild parrot does something 99% of captive parrots don't - fly miles and miles everyday. In this situation, it can actually be more harmful to feed them what they will eat in the wild vs a more domestic diet. They simply don't need as much energy.

I find Dr. Scott Echols a good source for this. He actually has done research in the field on wild parrot diets. I remember one time he talked about observing Amazon parrots feeding off of a dead animal carcass. In the wild, they are opportunistic and eat what they can to survive. In captivity, we know that this type of diet would put the bird on a path for heart disease. A lot of other foods they are found to be eating are immature fruits, and even items known to be toxic. (The idea that the clay negates this toxin has been refuted, and it has been found that clay is instead a way they supplement sodium in their diet since the rain washes much out of it out of the ground and thus doesn't get drawn up into the plants they eat.) And when it is said that parrots eat a lot of "fruit" these are very different than the fruit we buy at the grocery store on so many levels, as they have been cultivated to appeal to human tastes, and we really like sweet!

"In culinary terminology, a fruit is usually any sweet-tasting plant part, especially a botanical fruit; a nut is any hard, oily, and shelled plant product; and a vegetable is any savory or less sweet plant product.[5] However, in botany, a fruit is the ripened ovary or carpel that contains seeds, a nut is a type of fruit and not a seed, and a seed is a ripened ovule. Examples of culinary "vegetables" and nuts that are botanically fruit include corn, cucurbits (e.g., cucumber, pumpkin, and squash), eggplant, legumes (beans, peanuts, and peas), sweet pepper, and tomato."
Fruit - Wikipedia


Here is a thread from Dr. Echols' group, Nutrition for Pets, that I find a good read:

Log into Facebook | Facebook

At the end of the day, I feed pellets and supplement with fresh food. I live where getting sunlight on the birds is only really possible 3-4 months out of the year, so Vitamin D3 is something they absolutely need to have supplemented. I also know that my birds do not eat everything I give them, so even if I was able to carefully balance everything, some of the nutrients we know without a doubt they need might be missing. It's not like cat food where we have a lot larger body of knowledge to work from, and even then we are still finding out new things about them and what they need! And they have been domesticated for 10,000 years. Parrots are still wild animals.

Absolutely! And then there is always a bit of a trend going on, I know only somewhat related but in the 70th they told the mom's to formula feed their babies. But yes, even if the food the bird eats would be available there would be no way we could provide it and I agree that the diet of a sedentary bird is probably different than that of an active one.
 

Hankmacaw

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Let's face it, pellets are mainly created because people are lazy and don't feed their animals fresh foods,

What do call those of us who prepare fresh foods and cook fresh foods for our birds, as well as feed pellets - are we lazy too?
 

Karen

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Let's face it, pellets are mainly created because people are lazy and don't feed their animals fresh foods
This is unequivocally FALSE!!!

EDITED TO ADD: Avian Vets along with aviculturists and avian nutritionists created pellets because malnutrition was the leading cause of death in pet birds. Vets were finding that seeds and homemade concoctions of various fruits and vegetables we're not meeting their nutritional needs over the long haul.
 
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Mizzely

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Let's face it, pellets are mainly created because people are lazy and don't feed their animals fresh foods, heck I do know a lot of people that do not eat anything fresh themselves. Pellets are convenient and give more of what the animal needs than seeds etc. My fresh feeding has another huge down side, it is messy, with the birds and our dog. The amount of cleaning I do is insane but we don't want it any other way now. Preparing the food is time intense too and it doesn't last as long, more shopping and more cooking. Yesterday I cooked the sweet potatoes for the week for our dog and the birds and then made fries for the kids :)

I do think it's unfair to imply pellets are for lazy people. I understand that you likely didn't mean it as a blanket statement, and I am not targeting you specifically with this response; more just covering it because you brought it up.

Many people who feed pellets do so because they were not lazy and did the research to find that seeds are not the best diet for them. And I feed a lot of pellets, but I definitely don't consider myself lazy - I have spent many hours researching and experimenting with their diets and have found through anything but laziness what works for us.

There are also other considerations to make - cost, time, and what the bird will eat. In the past few years I have gone through many points where income has been an issue, and I had a baby which took away a lot of my time. I am not ashamed to admit that a few weeks they ate bowls of pellets and not much else while I was sleep deprived and up with a newborn 20 hours a day at times. I am glad that a pellet diet was available, and my birds did not suffer for it.

It's similar to the cat food debate of dry vs canned vs raw. In an ideal world, I would love to feed raw. But financially I cannot spend $100+ a month on cat food. I try to feed mostly canned because I know it is better for them, but there were several months where the $60/month was also not feasible, and dry food was the only option aside from literally starving my family.

None of those decisions came from laziness. They came from love, research, and working with what I had. Pellets are so polarizing, but no one should ever be made to feel like they are providing an inferior diet by feeding them, as in my experience, that is quite far from the truth.
 

Tyrion

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I choose to feed a pellet free diet and have for almost a year now and my birds are doing great ..I make sure they get everything thing they need or as close to as I can with fruit ,veggies,seed ,nuts ,oils ,teas and grains ..I mix every thing myself and all is human grade ...I made this decision after I lost Loki due to liver and heart failure which I believe to be linked to her pellet only diet which she had for 11 yrs before I bought her ... So I stopped pellets all together and found that Lagatha my Amazon even though she still is chubby lost over 30 grms and Tyrion my Grey who was loosing weight gained 50 grms back and both have been doing great on a pellet free diet ..they love the different food they are given on a daily basis and like foraging for just the right piece ...I keep a journal of what I make every week or month so I know just what they are eating ...even though there are those that think pellets have a place in the diet I wont take a chance again on possibly causing an issue .... I feel like some that there are better options than the pellet .. :)
 

Milo

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I choose to feed a pellet free diet and have for almost a year now and my birds are doing great ..I make sure they get everything thing they need or as close to as I can with fruit ,veggies,seed ,nuts ,oils ,teas and grains ..I mix every thing myself and all is human grade ...I made this decision after I lost Loki due to liver and heart failure which I believe to be linked to her pellet only diet which she had for 11 yrs before I bought her ... So I stopped pellets all together and found that Lagatha my Amazon even though she still is chubby lost over 30 grms and Tyrion my Grey who was loosing weight gained 50 grms back and both have been doing great on a pellet free diet ..they love the different food they are given on a daily basis and like foraging for just the right piece ...I keep a journal of what I make every week or month so I know just what they are eating ...even though there are those that think pellets have a place in the diet I wont take a chance again on possibly causing an issue .... I feel like some that there are better options than the pellet .. :)
What exactly makes you think that the pellets are what contributed to heart and liver disease? 11 years old is longer than a lot of modern pelleted diets have been around.

I would also argue that you don't really know that your birds are "doing great" because we don't know the long term effects of what you're feeding. As I said I've seen birds that have eaten an all seed diet into their 20s but then have a crisis because of a long term lack of nutrients. I encourage you to look at the science behind what is being fed and why instead of relying on perception.

What would you consider to be a better option to pellets that a general population would be able to easily maintain?
 

Tyrion

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What exactly makes you think that the pellets are what contributed to heart and liver disease? 11 years old is longer than a lot of modern pelleted diets have been around.

I would also argue that you don't really know that your birds are "doing great" because we don't know the long term effects of what you're feeding. As I said I've seen birds that have eaten an all seed diet into their 20s but then have a crisis because of a long term lack of nutrients. I encourage you to look at the science behind what is being fed and why instead of relying on perception.

What would you consider to be a better option to pellets that a general population would be able to easily maintain?
Pellets have been around for 11 yrs and I got my information from 3 different Drs. ...they wouldn't say for sure because necropsies normally cant be 100% for sure but they implied it in our conversations ...so yes I believe she died of only consuming pellets for all her life ...My birds are doing great their blood work tells me so ...their plumage ...their activity ...their stool...how they eat ...their whole way of life ....how do you tell if your bird is doing well ...and my birds don't eat an all seed diet ...I encourage you to read my post before you make statements....I consider a whole food life style a better option to pellets and that's what I feed my birds and so does a whole population of people you can find some of them here Log into Facebook | Facebook and they seem to maintain it quite well :)
 
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