Insightful article on pellets!

[Tyrion]

It sounds close minded when some on says birds dont drink tea in the wild ... and no matter how old some information is it can still hold weight unless some one wants to discount it ....I just do the best I can by my birds without feeding pellets and should not be belittled for doing so ...I have done my research and have decided on that research that pellets have and will do damage to my flock if fed exclusively ...so I dont even want to have them any where around just like peanuts...is that so hard to understand ...I choose to believe others over some on this issue just like you believe others over some ...there will never be an agreement ..because I will never suddenly say oh you are right I better give my birds some artificially dyed compressed over cooked lil mashed up pellet ..just like you will never say oh I better not give my bird their pellets anymore ....this issue always ends up the same no matter how it starts ..its just better to agree to disagree and let the issue alone

Asking for information is the opposite of close minded. I'm very open minded and love to learn! But I also know how to determine if a source is a able to hold up it's claims. That's not being close minded, that's just not accepting facts as face value because it's on the internet and sounds reasonable. We're not discounting, we're hoping to have a conversation to better understand.

 

[jmfleish]

It sounds close minded when some on says birds dont drink tea in the wild ... and no matter how old some information is it can still hold weight unless some one wants to discount it ....I just do the best I can by my birds without feeding pellets and should not be belittled for doing so ...I have done my research and have decided on that research that pellets have and will do damage to my flock if fed exclusively ...so I dont even want to have them any where around just like peanuts...is that so hard to understand ...I choose to believe others over some on this issue just like you believe others over some ...there will never be an agreement ..because I will never suddenly say oh you are right I better give my birds some artificially dyed compressed over cooked lil mashed up pellet ..just like you will never say oh I better not give my bird their pellets anymore ....this issue always ends up the same no matter how it starts ..its just better to agree to disagree and let the issue alone

You are doing what you think is best and that is your perogative. You do realize that there is nothing inherently wrong with peanuts right? I'm just sayin'....

 

[Tyrion]

You are doing what you think is best and that is your perogative. You do realize that there is nothing inherently wrong with peanuts right? I'm just sayin'....

Yeah I know but better to safe then sorry ...

 

[javi]

All we can do is what we feel is right.
Just a side note, a lot of research done by lay people is done on "reports" done by other lay people. The best research is done by reading reports done by scientist, biologist, nutritionist, and veterinarians educated in avian nutrition and health. I often hear people say they do certain things for their pets based on their research. My first response is this actual research, anecdotal, and for links so I can see what they see.

 

[Mizzely]

It sounds close minded when some on says birds dont drink tea in the wild ... and no matter how old some information is it can still hold weight unless some one wants to discount it ....I just do the best I can by my birds without feeding pellets and should not be belittled for doing so ...I have done my research and have decided on that research that pellets have and will do damage to my flock if fed exclusively ...so I dont even want to have them any where around just like peanuts...is that so hard to understand ...I choose to believe others over some on this issue just like you believe others over some ...there will never be an agreement ..because I will never suddenly say oh you are right I better give my birds some artificially dyed compressed over cooked lil mashed up pellet ..just like you will never say oh I better not give my bird their pellets anymore ....this issue always ends up the same no matter how it starts ..its just better to agree to disagree and let the issue alone

You assume that my opinion cannot change, that is close minded. If I was provided factual, scientific information that showed pellets were bad for birds, and that a whole food diet is definitely better, then make no mistake - I WOULD change! That's why I go into these conversations. Not to change other people's minds, because as you said you have no intention of changing your mind even when given information that contradicts your opinion, but to test mine. I DON'T think I know everything, and I WANT to be challenged so that I can learn more! Because I DO change my mind when presented with facts.

I fed my cats dry only for 10 years because at the time it was "better for their teeth". Now research says that's nuts and untrue. My cats now eat a canned food diet.

Close minded is going into a conversation without considering the other side at all.

 

[clawnz]

nothing inherently wrong with peanuts right?

Sorry to say this is not quite correct. The mold that can form on the Peanuts, has some effect on the nut it's self. Which cannot be killed or removed by processing.
That's as far as I seem to remember reading. I am not expert and not very good at putting things on paper.
But why take the risk given the evidence?

 

[Tyrion]

You assume that my opinion cannot change, that is close minded. If I was provided factual, scientific information that showed pellets were bad for birds, and that a whole food diet is definitely better, then make no mistake - I WOULD change! That's why I go into these conversations. Not to change other people's minds, because as you said you have no intention of changing your mind even when given information that contradicts your opinion, but to test mine. I DON'T think I know everything, and I WANT to be challenged so that I can learn more! Because I DO change my mind when presented with facts.

I fed my cats dry only for 10 years because at the time it was "better for their teeth". Now research says that's nuts and untrue. My cats now eat a canned food diet.

Close minded is going into a conversation without considering the other side at all.

We have been in these conversations before I have offered you to join Dr. Jason Creans face book page and linked other sites for you to read and I doubt you have read them and have you taken the time to join Jasons face book page to see for yourself all the knowledge there ...I have read every single thing that people share on the side of pellets and have researched things myself on the side of pellets and still wont feed them ... I refuse to change my mind when the facts dont add up like the facts on pellets ...I dont come into these things to change others peoples minds just to show there is another way ...

 

[BeeBop]

Woah guys! @Mizzely & @Tyrion Not to get in the way of things or say anybody is right or wrong but I think we are getting a little carried away We all have our own what I like to call "FRO's" Factual Reasoned Opinions haha. Some times we may not see eye to eye on things but I think the both of you agree on one thing - To take care of your parrots to the best of your knowledge and understanding.

 

[Tyrion]

Woah guys! @Mizzely & @Tyrion Not to get in the way of things or say anybody is right or wrong but I think we are getting a little carried away We all have our own what I like to call "FRO's" Factual Reasoned Opinions haha. Some times we may not see eye to eye on things but I think the both of you agree on one thing - To take care of your parrots to the best of your knowledge and understanding.

Yes thats what I said its better to agree to disagree on this issue than to argue over your facts vs my facts ...everyone has their own way of feeding their birds ..there has been no proven 100% way is better all a person can do is their best and hope everything works out in the best possible way ...

 

[clawnz]

Here is yet another article that says a lot of what I believe is true.
One point they do make and I fully agree with, is the fact that it has been shown that birds that have been on a poor diet do improve on pellets.
It is the long term use that can cause issues.

Pellet Debate | holisticbirds

Has anybody discussed digestive enzymes and how heat treated extrusion destroys them.

I fully support Jason Crean and his work.
I also like the work of Machelle Pacion.

There are any number of people who push, so called scientific backed evidence to support pelleted diets.
But keep in mind these people work in a lab. Most have very little idea of what is actually going on in real life. Never kept a bird.
So when they produce so called evidence that bird keepers have been doing it wrong. We need to keep this in balance.

 

[Mizzely]

We have been in these conversations before I have offered you to join Dr. Jason Creans face book page and linked other sites for you to read and I doubt you have read them and have you taken the time to join Jasons face book page to see for yourself all the knowledge there ...I have read every single thing that people share on the side of pellets and have researched things myself on the side of pellets and still wont feed them ... I refuse to change my mind when the facts dont add up like the facts on pellets ...I dont come into these things to change others peoples minds just to show there is another way ...

I have been reading Jason Crean's stuff before I even knew you Never said I disagree with the tea thing either. I have read what you posted, many again before you ever linked them, but still haven't been given scientific, peer reviewed articles that show me that pellets are inferior, only seen articles that state the opposite. If you have seen these things because you have done so much research, I'm only asking you to share them so we all can learn!

 

[BeeBop]

Whether or not pellets should be used will probably always be a sensitive topic. Because everyone has at least slightly different ideas.

There has been studies on pellets effectiveness on parrots lifespan. But most from what I've seen always compare them to the standard of seed or seed with little added produce. If there was a study on pellets vs produce diets on many parrots over a few year period I would love to look at it.
One point I do want to say is that wild birds don't have exact diets - so why are we needing our parrots to have exact diets? I know you can't replicate parrots wild diets exactly but if we tried perhaps it would work out well.
I used to be a fan of pellets, but slowly with more research I questioned pellets. I did find a great detailed article on the cons of pellets that unfortunately doesn't exist anymore! I would def provide it if I found it.

But regardless of what we think we are all trying to raise our feathered children as best we can.

 

[Tyrion]

So thats great Im glad you are on his faceboook page if you want more information maybe ask it there he has tons of info I could spend all my spare time looking for research I have already read and asking Jason questions he has already answered for me but I think you should do your own research and ask your own questions I just dont have the time ...nor do I want to ...you ask for scientific this and scientific that and there just isnt allot ....scientific papers on nutrition on birds hasnt been done allot unless your a chicken ...but there are some out there you just have to look and know the right people to ask ....I have allot of vet friends from working in the industry and had the pleasure of getting information from them over conversations ... like I said Im glad you "know" Jason and read his stuff he is very knowledgeable and being apart of his facebook group has brought me incredible knowledge on raw whole foods I invite anyone to join

I have been reading Jason Crean's stuff before I even knew you Never said I disagree with the tea thing either. I have read what you posted, many again before you ever linked them, but still haven't been given scientific, peer reviewed articles that show me that pellets are inferior, only seen articles that state the opposite. If you have seen these things because you have done so much research, I'm only asking you to share them so we all can learn!

 

[jmfleish]

Sorry to say this is not quite correct. The mold that can form on the Peanuts, has some effect on the nut it's self. Which cannot be killed or removed by processing.
That's as far as I seem to remember reading. I am not expert and not very good at putting things on paper.
But why take the risk given the evidence?

Do you feed corn or other grains? How about any other nuts? They all contain aflotoxins which cause aspergillosis. Did you know that aspergillosis is all over in the air we breathe? Do you know the best way to avoid it? Eat foods that are human grade and keep your bird areas clean and dry! There is no more risk with peanuts than there is with most other foods we give our foods. To be honest with you, I feel more comfortable feeding a human grade peanut to my parrots than sprouts as far as contamination is concerned.

 

[jmfleish]

Here is yet another article that says a lot of what I believe is true.
One point they do make and I fully agree with, is the fact that it has been shown that birds that have been on a poor diet do improve on pellets.
It is the long term use that can cause issues.

Pellet Debate | holisticbirds

Has anybody discussed digestive enzymes and how heat treated extrusion destroys them.

I fully support Jason Crean and his work.
I also like the work of Machelle Pacion.

There are any number of people who push, so called scientific backed evidence to support pelleted diets.
But keep in mind these people work in a lab. Most have very little idea of what is actually going on in real life. Never kept a bird.
So when they produce so called evidence that bird keepers have been doing it wrong. We need to keep this in balance.

Just to let you know, Machelle Pachion is a complete loon and I can say that with confidence, being involved with her at one point a dozen years ago. She has turned over her "professional leaf" so many times it should make anyone wonder about her. She is another one who does not back up most of what she spout out about.

 

[Tyrion]

Here is yet another article that says a lot of what I believe is true.
One point they do make and I fully agree with, is the fact that it has been shown that birds that have been on a poor diet do improve on pellets.
It is the long term use that can cause issues.

Pellet Debate | holisticbirds

Has anybody discussed digestive enzymes and how heat treated extrusion destroys them.

I fully support Jason Crean and his work.
I also like the work of Machelle Pacion.

There are any number of people who push, so called scientific backed evidence to support pelleted diets.
But keep in mind these people work in a lab. Most have very little idea of what is actually going on in real life. Never kept a bird.
So when they produce so called evidence that bird keepers have been doing it wrong. We need to keep this in balance.

That was a long good read

 

[Begone]

I will only say this about what is posted above.
The quality of the food is the most important. I prefer to give my birds organic human food as much as possible.
So they eat a lot of sprout (beans, peas, lentils, seed e.t.c) and veggies that are bought for humans. Even their sunflowers kernels are organic and for humans. (that I use for tricktraining)
And if I want to give them healthy nuts, (peanuts isn't so healthy and infact not a nut either) I use walnuts. Also them are organic and bought for humans.
And if I sometimes want to give them snacks I use this: (also for humans)

 

[clawnz]

Do you feed corn or other grains? How about any other nuts? They all contain aflotoxins which cause aspergillosis. Did you know that aspergillosis is all over in the air we breathe? Do you know the best way to avoid it? Eat foods that are human grade and keep your bird areas clean and dry! There is no more risk with peanuts than there is with most other foods we give our foods. To be honest with you, I feel more comfortable feeding a human grade peanut to my parrots than sprouts as far as contamination is concerned.

Yes I do. Mainly sprouted, as this is the best food I can offer. And widely excepted by so many different birds. And as close as you can get to some of the foods they eat in the wild.
I'll stay with sprouting over the risks taken with peanuts. It is easy to know when sprouts are bad, as they are fresh foods. All it takes is to feel smell and taste. Peanuts? You cannot do that with peanuts. So I stay completely away from them.
And as for comparing such a wide food source with just peanuts, is that at all practical?
My sprout mix has 20+ seeds in it, and is a comprehensive food source, without all the known risks that exist with Peanuts.

 

[clawnz]

Just to let you know, Machelle Pachion is a complete loon and I can say that with confidence, being involved with her at one point a dozen years ago. She has turned over her "professional leaf" so many times it should make anyone wonder about her. She is another one who does not back up most of what she spout out about.

Yet her foods are great. I was sent some samples and was very impressed, so were the Fids.
So we can gather even a real loon, can educate us.

Enzymes anybody?

 

[BeeBop]

Restating my thought in case anyone missed it:
I would love if someone could provide a link (not just an explanation) to a study comparing produce diets (not seed diets with little added veggies) vs pellet diets

Thanks