Insightful article on pellets!

[Denice]

Interesting article. As far as my African Ringneck, he gets a variety of foods, including TOPS pellets, seeds, nuts, veggies, fruits, grains, & herbs. I would say that pellets don't constitute much more than 30% of his diet.
I also raise chickens and turkeys which interestingly enough eat pellets, although even though they say the pellets are a complete feed I also feed them grass, greens, fruits, scrap veggies, a scratch grains etc. You would think that they are fairly similar birds but their pellets are quite different. The chickens require 14-18% protein and laying hens extra calcium which they get in the form of layer pellets & oyster shell. The turkeys on the other hand require 18-30% protein depending on their age. They are seasonal layers so the need for extra calcium isn't daily like the chickens. The reason I mention this is because I can imagine that even though a African Ringneck and an Amazon Parrot may look similar I am certain they have very different dietary requirements.
I also raise sheep which also have you guessed it "sheep pellets" the mainstay of their diet is pasture and hay, and they get the pellets and a loose mineral in small amounts to make up for the missing minerals in the local soil. The University does extensive research on the soils, natural grasses, and livestock diets here and I appreciate the information it gives me so I can adequately feed my animals. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had the same information for all our birds.

 

[Karen]

..and yes they do drink tea in the wild ..what do you think they drink bottled water ..they drink water with leaves ..flowers..minerals...twigs...herbs...ect ..they even take baths in it ...Im sorry but that is what tea is made of ..have you looked on the labels of said teas ...you guys are so close minded sometimes...tea is tea whether its in the wild or in a package ....

Nope, no bottled water in the wild, lol. It never occurred to me that I was close minded; just never thought of dirty drinking water with debris in it as tea.

 

[EkkieLuv]

I feel like the pellet discussion will likely go on years past the day I leave this earth... I once did extensive digging on Pretty Bird Eclectus pellets - years ago - when someone insisted they were right on the money for ekkie diets. Well. I didn't agree with the strange Fruit Loop smell and loads of fortification so investigated every single ingredient. I also made a list of whole foods that each of those vitamins could be found in. It has always seemed logical to me that if my boys are healthy and don't have conditions from which vitamin and/or mineral absorption was compromised, I could provide them with those whole foods and they could get the nutrients they need from them. There may not be exhaustive scientific studies out there comparing whole food to pellets but all I know is that I can't get my guys to eat pellets. They just toss them out or turn them to powder. I'm pleased that they are willing to eat just about any whole foods I offer - and happy that they're healthy. I know many aren't that fortunate. With these BCC's I've got - like I mentioned somewhere miles above this post - I've offered a variety of good pellets in their seed mix (in case the home they go to favors a higher % pelleted diet) alongside the fresh stuff and chop but they ignore them more often than not. I expect they would eat them if I stopped offering plentiful other food and they were hungry... though I don't see any reason to do that!

Carry on, my friends. I appreciate all the viewpoints and value good forums like this for the opportunity to learn new things!


I've had a long week, however, and am calling it a day!

 

[Denice]

I feel like the pellet discussion will likely go on years past the day I leave this earth... I once did extensive digging on Pretty Bird Eclectus pellets - years ago - when someone insisted they were right on the money for ekkie diets. Well. I didn't agree with the strange Fruit Loop smell and loads of fortification so investigated every single ingredient. I also made a list of whole foods that each of those vitamins could be found in. It has always seemed logical to me that if my boys are healthy and don't have conditions from which vitamin and/or mineral absorption was compromised, I could provide them with those whole foods and they could get the nutrients they need from them. There may not be exhaustive scientific studies out there comparing whole food to pellets but all I know is that I can't get my guys to eat pellets. They just toss them out or turn them to powder. I'm pleased that they are willing to eat just about any whole foods I offer - and happy that they're healthy. I know many aren't that fortunate. With these BCC's I've got - like I mentioned somewhere miles above this post - I've offered a variety of good pellets in their seed mix (in case the home they go to favors a higher % pelleted diet) alongside the fresh stuff and chop but they ignore them more often than not. I expect they would eat them if I stopped offering plentiful other food and they were hungry... though I don't see any reason to do that!

Carry on, my friends. I appreciate all the viewpoints and value good forums like this for the opportunity to learn new things!


I've had a long week, however, and am calling it a day!

We moved to a little farmette 2 years ago, and we vowed to eat at least 2 things per day that were just the way they are in nature, like fresh veggie (uncooked), fruits, seeds, etc. We also eat only our own eggs since then my other half has gotten off 3 medicines for hypertension and cholesterol. I do believe if you can get the nutrition from something natural it is the way to go, same for our pets.

 

[Macawnutz]

Well, this thread certainly went somewhere. Where have I been?

So much has been talked about I don't know what to say... I would like to say I have some old birds, I also have the records of what they ate for almost their whole lives. What we believed to be true then and what we believe now are completely different. Despite the lack of knowledge in the first 50 years, my guys are old. I believe diet, exercise and air quality to be the most important. I wish these studies gave a little more detail in the mobility of the control groups when assessing diets.

 

[clawnz]

I am in the NO PELLET class. And have yet to see a totally unbiased report proving they any good or a must have.
The article points a few very valid points.
One is the fact for any pellet diet with supplements to work. It would need to be 80% or more of a complete diet.
And hopefully we are better educated than to think that is a good idea. So those who are just feeding a few are not achieving anything.
That those who feed a decent real foods diet, are not already achieving.

Two, if the were such a necessity, why have so many people around the world managed to keep their birds in good condition without the Holy Grail of manufactured pellet.

As for pellets themselves, is it not true a good number of them are mostly ground up corn? Well who would feed any bird mostly corn?

As for the statement we do not know enough about bird diets. I find that hard to swallow.
Sure there maybe a number of parrots kept that have not been studied in the wild.
But YES WE DO KNOW about a good number of parrots and their diets. And Eclectus as one.

I cannot buy into the comment that they need a more complex diet. All they need is a good raw fresh food diet. No Processed foods.
This is exactly why they do not do well on pellets. Pellets are processed, and in the processing a lot of the natural goodness is badly damaged or destroyed.
I have 4x now, and have watched the two older secondhand birds improve in condition on nothing special, just good varied fruit and veg diet, including seeds, mainly sprouts. And nuts.

Enzymes are very important to good health, and you are not doing your birds any favors feeding processed foods. That can be termed as semi digested, as such.
Enzymes are use them or loose them. So the wider the diet the better for the health of your bird.

 

[clawnz]

Here is a typical call out of any reports, re manufactured foods.

What’s Wrong With Feeding Fresh Food to Your Pet?

 

[clawnz]

Do you feed corn or other grains? How about any other nuts? They all contain aflotoxins which cause aspergillosis. Did you know that aspergillosis is all over in the air we breathe? Do you know the best way to avoid it? Eat foods that are human grade and keep your bird areas clean and dry! There is no more risk with peanuts than there is with most other foods we give our foods. To be honest with you, I feel more comfortable feeding a human grade peanut to my parrots than sprouts as far as contamination is concerned.

It is a fact Ground nuts are a much higher risk than ANY OTHER nut. And not a true nut anyway.
Simple fact of life. Your choice to feed them. My choice is to not bother and stay away from any mixes that has them.
There are many good nuts.

 

[Bokkapooh]

You would have to feed about 20 different foods (in total not gross amount) to completely say your birds are eating a diet that does not need pellets. And before that you'd have to do extensive research on each food item offered. Nutritional level, etc, and do the data transcribing of what nutritional values your bird is consuming daily. Most people who feed fresh foods, cannot offer this amount of variety and 100% K N O W that their birds are eating everything and getting the benefits of such a diet.

In a pellet, you can indeed say just that.

I am pro pellets and fresh foods. I think most if not all birds should be on pellets, even if its a small amount to make sure that they're getting exactly what they need.

Edit: Someone said Pellets are for the lazy and they're dead wrong on that point. Pellets are for those who want to guarantee that their birds nutritional intake is 100% where it should be at.

 

[Irishj9]

We are still learning about HUMAN diet. Arguments rage in the UK about good,vs bad fats, how many portions of fruit and veg a day etc. I'm a very practical person and I know this:

a) My birds are full of life and energy
b) They look great, as kind AA members keep telling me
c) The avian vet makes passes at them when they come in for a checkup

so I'll keep doing what I'm doing, feeding a mixed diet, and learning as I go

 

[clawnz]

Edit: Someone said Pellets are for the lazy and they're dead wrong on that point. Pellets are for those who want to guarantee that their birds nutritional intake is 100% where it should be at.

Not necessarily for lazy people, but more for those who cannot be bothered to feed fresh food diet. And in some places you may not be able to buy real foods.
As for needing to fed 20 different foods everyday. Well Let me see. My sprout mix has 20+ different types in it to start with. My seed mix has a minimum of 5basic types, then I add another 5+. Fruit per day will be at least 5 types. Veg may only be one or two. Then I find treats I.E trees, shrubs, plants in seed or flower for them.

No I do not think any manufactured food is any good for our Fids.
There is no proven case or study to back up your claims.
Every body to their own, shame that poor diets, I include all seed and all pellet diets. Include any of them that are more than 50% of these are way less than idea.
Please do your own research. Birds are getting sick on high percentage pellet diets.

Read the label on the pellets. The supplements are only trace, so unless you are feeding 80% or more they are a total waste of time. And covering Zero!
Supplements are not required anyway, if you feed a decent diet, of fresh foods.
Supplements should ONLY ever be fed ,with your AV's advice, and even then make sure the tests show this.
My normal challenge to anybody who thinks you cannot keep a bird UNLESS you feed manufactured groundup supplemented dry biscuit. Take any one of my bird that has been here over two years. And I will run any test you ask for. If I am wrong I pay. If you are wrong you pay.
So far no pellet promoting person has been willing to. You have to wonder why that is!

Ok. So I agree there is nothing wrong with feeding a few pellets if you must, that again is your choice. But the facts are that you cannot prove there is any point.

 

[Karen]

Let's face it, pellets are mainly created because people are lazy and don't feed their animals fresh foods

Not necessarily for lazy people, but more for those who cannot be bothered to feed fresh food diet.

I get so sick of BS, name calling and derogatory comments that is directed toward people that offer pellets as part of their parrots diet on EVERY pellet thread! There's always a few members in every pellet thread that feel they have the right to demean others!

 

[clawnz]

I get so sick of BS, name calling and derogatory comments that is directed toward people that offer pellets as part of their parrots diet on EVERY pellet thread! There's always a few members in every pellet thread that feel they have the right to demean others!

I do not think I am demeaning anybody, with my factual comments. Take it whichever way you like.
But it is a FACT that any number of comments, come from people who do feed pellets, is because of the effort, and the waste of feeding fresh foods.
Same as I have tried to point out the FACTS of feeding just a few pellets, is a waste of time.
And I never even went there, about brow beating people into thinking they have to feed pellets. Which happens all too often.
That is what I get sick off, the total bulldookey, that keeps getting spewed around.
If you find that insulting, and take offense, that is your prerogative.

Here is yet another fact. It is well proven that processed foods are doing a lot of harm to humans.
So do you not think it may just be the case with birds and pets in general?

 

[Vera]

I would love to feed whole fresh foods as a base diet.but i work during the day so can only offer fresh in the evening when i'm home.they do eat sprouts but veggies or mash aren't a big hit.they hardly eat it and toss the food around.
Would a diet of sprouted seeds,dry seeds,dehydrated veggies and herbs, and a suppelemt be better than a diet based on pellets?(with dry seeds,dehydrated veggies and sprouted seeds) I think there isn't much difference. The pellets are a food they can eat and can be fed during the day. A supplrment can't be provided as a food but has to be added to other foods....

 

[BeeBop]

There is just so much to debate on. You seriously cannot post a thread about pellets without getting a disagreement within 10 minutes. Everyone here has a slightly different opinion. Some are more pushy of their opinion or more defensive of it. (Not pointing that at any one person). Let's face it we don't know a lot about bird nutrition. Once you do know a lot you realize how little you actually know. I think that in this thread we can all be a little more open minded and not try to retaliate every little thing (again not directing that to any one person). We don't know everything. We however do know that our birds are healthy with the path and research we have taken. Let's use this thread for the better of sharing information and discussing it. Note that I said discussing it. Not disagreeing.

 

[jmfleish]

There is just so much to debate on. You seriously cannot post a thread about pellets without getting a disagreement within 10 minutes. Everyone here has a slightly different opinion. Some are more pushy of their opinion or more defensive of it. (Not pointing that at any one person). Let's face it we don't know a lot about bird nutrition. Once you do know a lot you realize how little you actually know. I think that in this thread we can all be a little more open minded and not try to retaliate every little thing (again not directing that to any one person). We don't know everything. We however do know that our birds are healthy with the path and research we have taken. Let's use this thread for the better of sharing information and discussing it. Note that I said discussing it. Not disagreeing.

LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! LIKE! Especially this! This is how I totally feel: Let's face it we don't know a lot about bird nutrition. Once you do know a lot you realize how little you actually know. This is me!!!!! On everything bird these days! I'm taking Amarillo, the eggnant Yellow Head in today and totally feel like I've been whipped and stirred and beaten on parrots...is there an egg, is there not an egg...I felt it and now I don't but I didn't find an egg and she still weighs a ton...maybe I fed it to her and don't remember!

 

[Milo]

There is just so much to debate on. You seriously cannot post a thread about pellets without getting a disagreement within 10 minutes. Everyone here has a slightly different opinion. Some are more pushy of their opinion or more defensive of it. (Not pointing that at any one person). Let's face it we don't know a lot about bird nutrition. Once you do know a lot you realize how little you actually know. I think that in this thread we can all be a little more open minded and not try to retaliate every little thing (again not directing that to any one person). We don't know everything. We however do know that our birds are healthy with the path and research we have taken. Let's use this thread for the better of sharing information and discussing it. Note that I said discussing it. Not disagreeing.

I am all for open minded discussion! Considering how many species there are out there with diverse diets in their own habitat I refuse to believe that we know 100% of what we need to know. What I try to encourage people to do when they cite sources is to really evaluate where that information is coming from. Anyone can claim to be an authority on the internet. If you're having trouble finding their credentials or what information they're using to make their claims I would most certainly look at that with a more critical eye.

 

[BeeBop]

I am all for open minded discussion! Considering how many species there are out there with diverse diets in their own habitat I refuse to believe that we know 100% of what we need to know. What I try to encourage people to do when they cite sources is to really evaluate where that information is coming from. Anyone can claim to be an authority on the internet. If you're having trouble finding their credentials or what information they're using to make their claims I would most certainly look at that with a more critical eye.

Right. A lot of posts on here are just word of mouth and no real evidence. My real questions were never answered because no one here really has 100% sound evidence that can't be taken any which way thrown around or disagreed on. Even I don't. The one link I posted actually wasn't sound. What I'm trying to say is if this thread is to continue we shouldn't be all word of mouth because at the end of the day that solves nothing.

 

[clawnz]

Lets get a few facts down on paper.
A: No two birds have the same needs.
B: Birds in the wild DO NOT EAT pellets.
C: Captive birds DO NEED different diets. Well that could come down to how they are kept.
Certainly a clipped bird or a cage bird, is not going to burn off energy.
D: YES we do know from studies what a good number of birds in the wild eat.
From this we know they do not eat the same thing every day. And most if not all of their foods are seasonal.
If you apply this to pellet diet. you maybe able to see there is a problem.
E: Nobody has yet shown me a totally independent report on pellets. They have all been paid for by the manufactures.
F: People feel pressured into feeding pellets. All too often you see some radical stupid comments saying 'You must feed pellets'
The best and I will never let this one go, was. "Shame you are killing your birds not feeding pellets"
G: We do know about enzymes and how important they are with digestion.
H: We know that birds live much longer in most cases now, than years ago. But do you really put this down to some magic in processed foods?
Certainly the manufactures would like you to believe that. If you do you are a fool. Reality is we and our birds do much better on fresh
unadulterated foods. and living conditions.
I: How many breeders are left that still feed high percentage pellet diets?
J: We DO KNOW that some pellets contain foods we would not feed to our birds. This can be from the main ingredients to sugars, salt,
preservatives. and gods knows what cocktail of man made items.

Concluding there is much more evidence (Factual) that shows too many pellets DO IMPACT on a birds health. I.E. We are already starting to see this with a number of species. And if people go on insisting in feeding pellet based diets this will only get worse.

Question! Do you take vitamins and supplements every day? Simple question. Why would you do this to such a small animal that, does not need to be treated that way either.

Now a few links that some may like to read. They all have valid points.
What’s Wrong With Feeding Fresh Food to Your Pet?

Sound Nutrition: The Key To A Healthy Grey

Repeating the one that some say is biased and unquantified.
Facebook

Nutrition in Psittacines - Management and Nutrition - Merck Veterinary Manual

 

[javi]

I may be wrong but I do not see how saying "radical stupid comments" is an actual fact. You could say comments or radical comments but by saying stupid you are stating opinion which may not be fact.