Insightful article on pellets!

[faislaq]

Yikes, Buzzard gets lots of fruits and a few nuts each day & is just starting to eat some steamed veggies, but he eats primarily Zupreem pellets. He came to us eating the Fruity ones and we switched him to the Natural because he wasn't eating half of the colors anyway. On one hand, I would be worried that if I were trying to feed a completely fresh diet, I might miss some crucial something their bodies need, or get the amounts wrong, but then again it is scary to think of how much of the pellets are just fillers.
And ever since I've joined this site, I keep trying to get the conures to start accepting pellets, but they eat only seeds. At least Scotty eats all of the fresh foods Buzzy eats so there is some supplementation, but Harley won't even try them. Now after reading this thread, I'm thinking I should stop pushing the pellets & just try to encourage more fresh foods, so the pellets or seeds are less of a worry?

 

[Vera]

I keep thinking about diet: pellets are good because you know what vitamins they contain...... but: it is processed and unnatural and nobody knows what the birds need nutrient wise.
fresh food isn't a great hit with my parrotlet. i do offer veggies on a skewer and she playes with it and eats small parts of veggies that way. sprouted seed has caused many bacterial infections over here (hygiene rules were followed,but still) , so i don't feed them atm.
for now my parrotlet eats Goldenfeast australian blend and legume blend. also processed, it is dehydrated stuff, but it is still more natural than a pellet, and no synthetic vitamins.

 

[Tyrion]

This was brought up on Jason Crean's raw whole food facebook page interesting information ...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140929180055.htm.... he states "
Many ask about adding probiotics to their birds' diets. But a diverse raw food diet provides your animals what they need (like fiber and large molecules that bacteria break down for their host).

If you're told that foods like sprouts shouldn't be fed, or that vegetable material isn't really all that healthy, you need to not only leave that group, but run! There is a great deal of bad info peddled and that's why I started this group.

We know that the microbiome in any animal gut should be inhabited by beneficial bacteria that aid in digestion as well as a host of other functions. After spending a week recently with microbiome scientists, I have seen the evidence as to how quickly these gut microbes respond to changes in diet.

Another reason to feed sprouts: capture the beneficial bacteria that inhabit the seed as the plant begins growth for a healthier gut microbiome that can work to keep your pet healthy! "

I know pellets are suppose to give all the right vitamins and minerals ect. our birds need but they will get that from eating a well rounded raw whole food diet to without all the issues of feeding a processed diet if your interested please join Jason's facebook page Log into Facebook | Facebook

 

[Mizzely]

With notable exception of Vitamin D3 which is not found in vegetable sources.

 

[jmfleish]

Please stop scaring everyone about pellets. There are plenty of birds who have been eating them for decades who are are absolutely fine and thriving on them. They are a diet that was put together scientifically to meet the general needs of a bird's diet to the best of our ability and they do a great job in doing so! Should we be feeding a diet completely of pellets, no! Are they killing our birds? Absolutely not and to make people think that is absolutely insane! Yes, there is a debate about what is proper to feed our birds but can we please keep it as a debate rather than telling people that one thing kills their parrots, this is a completely and totally false accusation and does nothing for people who are new to keeping parrots!

 

[Tyrion]

Please stop scaring everyone about pellets. There are plenty of birds who have been eating them for decades who are are absolutely fine and thriving on them. They are a diet that was put together scientifically to meet the general needs of a bird's diet to the best of our ability and they do a great job in doing so! Should we be feeding a diet completely of pellets, no! Are they killing our birds? Absolutely not and to make people think that is absolutely insane! Yes, there is a debate about what is proper to feed our birds but can we please keep it as a debate rather than telling people that one thing kills their parrots, this is a completely and totally false accusation and does nothing for people who are new to keeping parrots!

Just giving my input and giving information ..my name was brought up so here I am ....the last post was purely information ..dont like it dont read it ...

 

[jmfleish]

Just giving my input and giving information ..my name was brought up so here I am ....the last post was purely information ..dont like it dont read it ...

It's fine to give your opinion but when you start saying things like pellets kill I think we are going a little overboard. I have a Timneh grey who is now 14.5 years old and has been eating pellets all his life and is as healthy as a horse. I'm sure there are breeders out there who will say the same thing and have been feeding them for as long as they have been available. I have given URLs in this very thread to testimonies by Jean Pattison about pellets and how they have changed the way her birds produce. You may not like pellets, but they do not kill! As a matter of fact, we see less deaths now than we did before they came onto the scene. Birds are living longer, healthier lives now because of pelleted diets.

 

[Mizzely]

If we're going to discuss dangerous foods, why aren't we discussing sprouts?

Raw sprouts are probably the riskiest food in the world

Seems rather alarmist, right? Or are you convinced to not feed sprouts based on this?

 

[jmfleish]

If we're going to discuss dangerous foods, why aren't we discussing sprouts?

Raw sprouts are probably the riskiest food in the world

Seems rather alarmist, right? Or are you convinced to not feed sprouts based on this?

Yes...I stopped feeding sprouts a long time ago. They scare the crap out of me even though I know they are great source of nutrients.

 

[Tyrion]

It's fine to give your opinion but when you start saying things like pellets kill I think we are going a little overboard. I have a Timneh grey who is now 14.5 years old and has been eating pellets all his life and is as healthy as a horse. I'm sure there are breeders out there who will say the same thing and have been feeding them for as long as they have been available. I have given URLs in this very thread to testimonies by Jean Pattison about pellets and how they have changed the way her birds produce. You may not like pellets, but they do not kill! As a matter of fact, we see less deaths now than we did before they came onto the scene. Birds are living longer, healthier lives now because of pelleted diets.

Well you have your beliefs and I have mine I believe pellets killed my bird Loki ...they were fed exclusively to her for 11 years and she ended up with heart and liver damage ..with no other apparent reason except maybe metal toxicity...has your TAG been eating them exclusively for the past 14.5 years with no ill effects ? I dont believe feeding processed food exclusively will and has made our birds live longer we went from a exclusively feed seed diet to something even worse in my perspective ...now we know better most feed a mixture of raw whole foods with pellets and I feel thats the only reason most parrots havent died sooner ....feeding any one food exclusively is bad thats why I dont do it ...

 

[jmfleish]

Well you have your beliefs and I have mine I believe pellets killed my bird Loki ...they were fed exclusively to her for 11 years and she ended up with heart and liver damage ..with no other apparent reason except maybe metal toxicity...has your TAG been eating them exclusively for the past 14.5 years with no ill effects ? I dont believe feeding processed food exclusively will and has made our birds live longer we went from a exclusively feed seed diet to something even worse in my perspective ...now we know better most feed a mixture of raw whole foods with pellets and I feel thats the only reason most parrots havent died sooner ....feeding any one food exclusively is bad thats why I dont do it ...

Do you have the necropsy results that say that pellets killed your bird? How do you know that your bird didn't just have bad genetics? Was this bird in your possession the entire 11 years so you know for sure exactly what she was eating? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to flush out the truth of the matter. You say it could have been metal toxicity but if that was the case, it should have been easy to test for, even after death. It shouldn't have really been a question of maybe, it either is or isn't. Did they run a heavy metal poison test on your bird and if so, what were the results? It's fine to say it was pellets that killed your bird but you have to be able to back that statement all the way with proof or you can't say it.

We'd have a lot of dead birds around today if pellets killed.

 

[Tyrion]

Do you have the necropsy results that say that pellets killed your bird? How do you know that your bird didn't just have bad genetics? Was this bird in your possession the entire 11 years so you know for sure exactly what she was eating? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to flush out the truth of the matter. You say it could have been metal toxicity but if that was the case, it should have been easy to test for, even after death. It shouldn't have really been a question of maybe, it either is or isn't. Did they run a heavy metal poison test on your bird and if so, what were the results? It's fine to say it was pellets that killed your bird but you have to be able to back that statement all the way with proof or you can't say it.

We'd have a lot of dead birds around today if pellets killed.

Look she was not in my possession but for the last nine months of her life I was told that is all she ate when I bought her ..there was a heavy metal toxicity test that came back inconclusive just like her necropsy ...I have talked to several vets and non-vets about this on and off for months after her death and we have come up with pellets between about 6 different people ...all of us arent stupid or uneducated about avian nutrition ... what about your bird/birds do you feed pellets exclusively ?? or are you feeding a mixture of things to make sure they are on a well rounded diet ?? I have no need to back up my statement because I am fine with the results I got after talking at length with several people and rehashing it over and over again ... do you have any results saying that pellets dont cause heart and liver problems in parrots that are fed exclusively over several years ...and if you havent noticed we do have allot of unconfirmed dead birds around just on this forum alone ...whos to say pellets didnt contribute to their deaths ... there is no real studies done on processed foods besides from the people who make them and most everyone blindly believes them ..I did ...now I dont ...I want to see studies done by independent people telling me that pellets fed exclusively will increase my birds lively hood ... where are those studies I havent read one and I have read allot of studies ....like I said this debate has no winners because there isnt enough information out there ..no one can say this is a balanced diet for parrots ..not even the pellet makers can agree which pellet is the best neither can the users of pellets ...there is always a thread of which pellet is best ..all I can say is no pellet is best ..all processed food is trash

 

[jmfleish]

Look she was not in my possession but for the last nine months of her life I was told that is all she ate when I bought her ..there was a heavy metal toxicity test that came back inconclusive just like her necropsy ...I have talked to several vets and non-vets about this on and off for months after her death and we have come up with pellets between about 6 different people ...all of us arent stupid or uneducated about avian nutrition ... what about your bird/birds do you feed pellets exclusively ?? or are you feeding a mixture of things to make sure they are on a well rounded diet ?? I have no need to back up my statement because I am fine with the results I got after talking at length with several people and rehashing it over and over again ... do you have any results saying that pellets dont cause heart and liver problems in parrots that are fed exclusively over several years ...and if you havent noticed we do have allot of unconfirmed dead birds around just on this forum alone ...whos to say pellets didnt contribute to their deaths ... there is no real studies done on processed foods besides from the people who make them and most everyone blindly believes them ..I did ...now I dont ...I want to see studies done by independent people telling me that pellets fed exclusively will increase my birds lively hood ... where are those studies I havent read one and I have read allot of studies ....like I said this debate has no winners because there isnt enough information out there ..no one can say this is a balanced diet for parrots ..not even the pellet makers can agree which pellet is the best neither can the users of pellets ...there is always a thread of which pellet is best ..all I can say is no pellet is best ..all processed food is trash

I am just asking you not to say that pellets kill. My flock of 18 are fed almost exclusively pellets and have been for as long as I've had each one of them. I've been back and forth on the "what is good for them" discussion as well. I know that we are all trying to do our best and we don't all agree but to say that pellets kill birds is a little on the crazy side of things. I also have chickens and while they are not parrots, the pellets that parrots eat were based a great deal on the pelleted diet that was created for chickens. I used to be one of those people that felt the way you do, don't feed pellets or try to feed fresh as much as possible but I found that, at least for me, I couldn't guarantee that I was giving them a well rounded diet of what they needed because I didn't know what they needed mostly because we don't really know what they need. I also learned more and more about how die hard chicken people feed their chickens and they rely almost exclusively on pellets and really tend to stay away from anything but pellets and see a great deal of success from this. I've also seen breeders make this move with a great deal of success, mostly Jeanie Pattison.

You don't have to agree that feeding pellets is a good thing, I'm just asking you not to say that it kills birds because this is obviously not the case. There could have been a million and one things going on with your bird and I'm truly sorry that you lost your bird. It's always a tragedy when we lose a bird for any reason but you can't say it might not have been bad genetics that played a role in it. I've also dealt with heavy metal poisoning and if there was anything going on there, a simple blood test should have told you that there were high levels of a heavy metal in her blood or her tissue, and that should have been easy to put that to bed, that's why I do not understand why you can't say one way or another if it was heavy metal toxicity.

I've been looking all over the internet for articles written by Liz Wilson. She died a few years ago and I guess once you die, no one feels the need to keep the articles you wrote. She owned an older B&G who and been with her for years who was on pellets from their inception and she also wrote about how birds were not living into their teens before pellets came along and then when pellets did come along, they were seeing a much longer lifespan in pet parrots. She was a CVT and had a lot of exposure to this over a long timeframe. I wish those articles were still available but I can't find a single one of them. My point being is that, since the inception of the pelleted diet, parrots have been living longer lives.

 

[Tyrion]

I am just asking you not to say that pellets kill. My flock of 18 are fed almost exclusively pellets and have been for as long as I've had each one of them. I've been back and forth on the "what is good for them" discussion as well. I know that we are all trying to do our best and we don't all agree but to say that pellets kill birds is a little on the crazy side of things. I also have chickens and while they are not parrots, the pellets that parrots eat were based a great deal on the pelleted diet that was created for chickens. I used to be one of those people that felt the way you do, don't feed pellets or try to feed fresh as much as possible but I found that, at least for me, I couldn't guarantee that I was giving them a well rounded diet of what they needed because I didn't know what they needed mostly because we don't really know what they need. I also learned more and more about how die hard chicken people feed their chickens and they rely almost exclusively on pellets and really tend to stay away from anything but pellets and see a great deal of success from this. I've also seen breeders make this move with a great deal of success, mostly Jeanie Pattison.

You don't have to agree that feeding pellets is a good thing, I'm just asking you not to say that it kills birds because this is obviously not the case. There could have been a million and one things going on with your bird and I'm truly sorry that you lost your bird. It's always a tragedy when we lose a bird for any reason but you can't say it might not have been bad genetics that played a role in it. I've also dealt with heavy metal poisoning and if there was anything going on there, a simple blood test should have told you that there were high levels of a heavy metal in her blood or her tissue, and that should have been easy to put that to bed, that's why I do not understand why you can't say one way or another if it was heavy metal toxicity.

I've been looking all over the internet for articles written by Liz Wilson. She died a few years ago and I guess once you die, no one feels the need to keep the articles you wrote. She owned an older B&G who and been with her for years who was on pellets from their inception and she also wrote about how birds were not living into their teens before pellets came along and then when pellets did come along, they were seeing a much longer lifespan in pet parrots. She was a CVT and had a lot of exposure to this over a long timeframe. I wish those articles were still available but I can't find a single one of them. My point being is that, since the inception of the pelleted diet, parrots have been living longer lives.

You can ask all you want but when I am asked about my opinion and experience about what happened to my bird I will speak honestly about what her vet said ..what the tests said ..what happened to her before she died ..how she died ..how she was treated..what I researched ...what other conversations I had with other vets and people ...and what conclusion I came to after months and months of trying to figure all of it out ..why should I lie about it ...just because you and who ever else doesn't like the conclusion I came to ...no one has done the studies yet to prove my conclusion wrong ...I encourage everyone to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about pellets ..I have

 

[jmfleish]

You can ask all you want but when I am asked about my opinion and experience about what happened to my bird I will speak honestly about what her vet said ..what the tests said ..what happened to her before she died ..how she died ..how she was treated..what I researched ...what other conversations I had with other vets and people ...and what conclusion I came to after months and months of trying to figure all of it out ..why should I lie about it ...just because you and who ever else doesn't like the conclusion I came to ...no one has done the studies yet to prove my conclusion wrong ...I encourage everyone to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about pellets ..I have

I think thousands of vets will state you are dead wrong...

 

[Tyrion]

I think thousands of vets will state you are dead wrong...

And that's their opinion ...I know allot of vets that have been wrong about very important things... I worked in the field for 15 yrs and they make mistakes just like everybody else ...trends change all the time just like what is best to feed our animals ...I have seen this in the field of vet medicine for years ...vets aren't nutritionist there are very few who even know the difference between pellets ...they recommend the ones they sell and that's it ...most listen to the producers who sell the pellets and read their studies and nothing more ... the vets I talked to were holistic vets who studied nutrition outside of school like all of them have to do if they want to study things like nutrition ...

 

[Mizzely]

An ALL pellet PROBABLY is bad for birds. All of anything certainly is. But to make a blanket statement of "pellets kill birds" when NO ONE has advocated for a 100% pellet diet on this forum or in the avian community at large is misleading and potentially harmful.

 

[Tyrion]

So now I'm misleading and harming the whole avian community ...really the whole community with one statement ...wow ...

 

[Mizzely]

That is not what I said.

I said the avian community at large does not subscribe to the pellets only mantra.

Your statement of "pellets kill birds" is potentially harmful (to clarify, NOT to the whole community), if even one person reads it and then doesn't see the footnote of "if fed solely pellets for over a decade".


Blanket statements like "pellets kill birds" is over generalization the situation regardless of what happened to your bird. And I'm not saying being fed only pellets CAN'T. But if we are going to make statements like that, let's add to the list.

Cardboard bagels kill birds.

Alone, it sounds scary.

But it's true.

For me.

One killed mine and I won't use them anymore. That is my choice. I do not go around telling everyone not to use them because for the vast majority of birds, they are completely safe.

The difference between my statement and yours is that yours could potentially lead someone to withhold vital nutrients to their bird and cause it's death if they don't do their research and know what holes they have to fill.

 

[saroj12]

To digresss, one should only use cardboard bagels that are either too small for the head to fit or large enough so that the whole body can go through. This applies to any toys with holes in them.