In Need of Parrot Breeder

[Jiffy]

Same bird posted in #16.

Parrotsrok

I emailed these people. Are they still breeding? I didn't see a date on the website for when it was last updated.

 

[finchly]

@Jiffy I went all thru the FB group and didn't find the red belly. I see maroon belly and..... something else I decided wasn't it.

 

[Jiffy]

@finchly Thank you for looking. I'm waiting on a few emails back from a couple different stores.

 

[melissasparrots]

Thank you for putting that into perspective, it does make a lot of sense. I'm glad you mentioned it because I don't think I would have asked for the vet information.

Be just a little careful about asking for the vet info. Some people get pretty defensive. Personally, with PDD, PBFD, chlamydia etc out there, and me with a current flock of birds, I ask about the vet. I also always ask the breeder how they choose their breeding stock and how the keep disease out of their aviary. If it sounds like they just pick up any random bird of the right species and sex to pair up with some other random cheap bird their found, then I'd look elsewhere. If vacuuming and keeping the place clean is their definition of disease prevention, then look elsewhere. Even small breeders should have a program that involves quarantine, vet checks and disease screening.

 

[Jiffy]

I have gotten a response from Avalon Aviary in Loveland Colorado! They are expecting birds soon, and I've just asked them what they do to keep the birds healthy and disease free while it's waiting for the sale. I've thought that I would ask them things making sure the bird would be healthy before the cost. You guys are right, the price shouldn't matter if the breeder is good. I'm waiting for a response back, and super excited considering they're the only ones that emailed back thus far

 

[iamwhoiam]

Does Avalon breed the birds or do they get them from an outside source and hand feed them or get them after they are weaned? There are some places that aren't the breeders but take over the hand feeding. I forgot to ask the person who got a bird from them about that. She purchased a red-bellied parrot from them but hasn't posted here in a while.
You should also ask about sexing. Some breeders include that in the price. Red-bellies will molt out and are then easily sexed but someone who has been breeding them should be able to visually determine the sex before they molt out although DNA sexing would confirm that. I got good at sexing them based on beak size, head shape and sometimes amount of orange on their forehead. My males had larger beaks, flatter and larger head and generally more orange on the forehead.
You also want to be sure that the parents are unrelated.

 

[Jiffy]

Thanks, I will ask all of those as well. I'm guessing it's bad if they get the birds from an unrelated source because they don't know the health and conditions, or is there some other reason? @iamwhoiam

 

[iamwhoiam]

Many times a breeder will have someone else take over the feedings and that works out for the breeder and the feeder.
If both are reputable there shouldn't be any issues. It's good to read reviews of places you are considering purchasing from, search to see if any AA members (or members of other bird related boards) have purchased from that breeder and sometimes breeders will give you references upon request.
If you are referring to this statement, "You also want to be sure that the parents are unrelated. " By unrelated I meant that you want to make sure that mom and dad are not siblings or parent and "child".

 

[Jiffy]

@iamwhoiam I've looked at the reviews and most of them were good, the bad ones were only about the staff.

 

[melissasparrots]

Thanks, I will ask all of those as well. I'm guessing it's bad if they get the birds from an unrelated source because they don't know the health and conditions, or is there some other reason? @iamwhoiam

I would focusing on, how do you know your birds are not related? How much do the breeder birds weigh (they should be ball park average for the species with the female trending toward the lower end of average for most), feather quality (does either parent pluck?), ask for pictures of the parents to assess overall posture, feather quality and body language. Breeder birds will often look a little rough if they've been in and out of the nest box, but you should see a nice posture, good bone structure, bright eyes etc. Ask how they decide if the person they are buying a breeding bird from is a good quality source? Do they acquire birds in a trade deal where there is a continuous stream of birds(and possibly disease) going in and out of their aviary. Its not a terrible thing if some of their breeder birds were rescues or from a questionable source so long as the bird is a quality specimen and they've done their quarantine, seen a vet and had disease testing done. And they are not breeding siblings.

Sometimes its also good to ask if they raise the babies from day one or allow the parents to feed for a while. If raised from day one, personally I ask about what formula they use, how they know if the baby is growing at a satisfactory rate (they should weigh and be able to quote some statistics such as percent weight gain each day and certain weight targets they like babies to reach by a certain age), they should not speak about giving a certain number of feeds like its set in stone as that tends to stunt babies. For myself, if I'm buying a baby that was raised from day one, I like to know the breeder was getting up in the middle of the night during the early days to do a hand-feed and ideally that the baby was raised with siblings or a similar species snuggle buddy. Basically, I want to make sure they aren't stunting my bird because they are an idiot and still doing things the way some shop dealer told them to in 1982 and that they aren't getting the cheapest birds they can, they have some method of quality control and they are disease testing. I have had breeders get a little defensive before. I just ask open ended questions and wait for a dishonest or lousy person to hang themselves on the details. If they are honest, and their practices are based on research and data, then I'm more likely to buy from them. Such a breeder is often hard to find, but they are around. In many cases, you may have to ship because finding an honest person with a good reputation is hard. Also, ask for pictures of the baby and look for black smears on the feathers and stress bars. A few black horizontal lines aren't so bad, but black smears and multiple black marks tells you the breeder was screwing up something. I don't know how well those things show up on a gray red bellied parrot, but they can sometimes be very obvious on green birds. If the breeder has senegals, you might ask for pictures of their senegal babies from the backside because the green color will show the black stress marks better.

 

[Jiffy]

I would focusing on, how do you know your birds are not related? How much do the breeder birds weigh (they should be ball park average for the species with the female trending toward the lower end of average for most), feather quality (does either parent pluck?), ask for pictures of the parents to assess overall posture, feather quality and body language. Breeder birds will often look a little rough if they've been in and out of the nest box, but you should see a nice posture, good bone structure, bright eyes etc. Ask how they decide if the person they are buying a breeding bird from is a good quality source? Do they acquire birds in a trade deal where there is a continuous stream of birds(and possibly disease) going in and out of their aviary. Its not a terrible thing if some of their breeder birds were rescues or from a questionable source so long as the bird is a quality specimen and they've done their quarantine, seen a vet and had disease testing done. And they are not breeding siblings.

Sometimes its also good to ask if they raise the babies from day one or allow the parents to feed for a while. If raised from day one, personally I ask about what formula they use, how they know if the baby is growing at a satisfactory rate (they should weigh and be able to quote some statistics such as percent weight gain each day and certain weight targets they like babies to reach by a certain age), they should not speak about giving a certain number of feeds like its set in stone as that tends to stunt babies. For myself, if I'm buying a baby that was raised from day one, I like to know the breeder was getting up in the middle of the night during the early days to do a hand-feed and ideally that the baby was raised with siblings or a similar species snuggle buddy. Basically, I want to make sure they aren't stunting my bird because they are an idiot and still doing things the way some shop dealer told them to in 1982 and that they aren't getting the cheapest birds they can, they have some method of quality control and they are disease testing. I have had breeders get a little defensive before. I just ask open ended questions and wait for a dishonest or lousy person to hang themselves on the details. If they are honest, and their practices are based on research and data, then I'm more likely to buy from them. Such a breeder is often hard to find, but they are around. In many cases, you may have to ship because finding an honest person with a good reputation is hard. Also, ask for pictures of the baby and look for black smears on the feathers and stress bars. A few black horizontal lines aren't so bad, but black smears and multiple black marks tells you the breeder was screwing up something. I don't know how well those things show up on a gray red bellied parrot, but they can sometimes be very obvious on green birds. If the breeder has senegals, you might ask for pictures of their senegal babies from the backside because the green color will show the black stress marks better.

All of that makes sense, I'm only finding it hard to put that into an email, while at the same time they aren't annoyed, or offended by the questions I'm asking. . .

 

[iamwhoiam]

It may be better to call at some point rather than email. Sometimes when you talk to them you can get a better feel about things than when you email, IMO. Asking for photos of the babies is always a good thing and reputable breeders will send you photos and sometimes even videos. I've only had one bird shipped and I asked about the parents, if and when they pull the babies, about the feedings, how they hand raised them, what foods they weaned the babies on to, did the babies have any toys, etc. I was sent photos of the parents and babies. I also made sure there was a health guarantee. You don't have to overload the breeder with lots of questions at once. However, you are asking questions so you can make an informed purchase. You want the breeder to be as transparent as possible and you want to be able to make the best choice. If you are set on a red-bellied parrot you may not have a lot of options due to the fact that there are very few (if any) babies available.

Did you ever contact Jean Pattison?

 

[aooratrix]

It's not that I can't afford it, I want to know if I could get a better deal, I don't want to get scammed. I was planning on taking the bird to the vet right after I get it, just to make sure it's healthy. I've already considered the costs, I want to make sure the bird is healthy. If I knew I couldn't afford the things to keep the bird alive I don't think I would consider getting one. It was good that you said that though, because it is most certainly important.

Sometimes, you get what you pay for. I would gladly pay a quality breeder who fledged babies, abundance weaned, provided enrichment galore, and had happy parents in a large space with enrichment of their own. There is one baby on birdbreeders.com and Species Survival Aviaries has them on hookbillsforsale.com, I think. I know nothing about either and am not directly recommending them, just providing leads.

 

[melissasparrots]

All of that makes sense, I'm only finding it hard to put that into an email, while at the same time they aren't annoyed, or offended by the questions I'm asking. . .

Call them instead?

 

[aooratrix]

Avalon Aviary is superb. I'd have no reservations whatsoever buying a bird from Susanne Cochran.

 

[aooratrix]

Call them instead?

I find it helpful to write down questions, so I don't forget to ask. A good breeder is going to appreciate that you've done research and you're doing your due diligence. If they're offended or can't/don't answer, I'd look elsewhere.

 

[melissasparrots]

Avalon Aviary is superb. I'd have no reservations whatsoever buying a bird from Susanne Cochran.

Same here. I haven't talked to her recently, but I did a number of years ago and she was very transparent. I don't think I was asking about buying a bird though. I had some other questions I can't remember that I was doing research on. Actually, I think I called asking about feeding response and weight gains in yellow nape babies and we got into a discussion on breeding and hand-feeding practices. I was impressed that she seemed to be quite attached to her breeder birds which a lot of people aren't. I think their bird's might be toward the high end of price, but probably a better breeder than some random person that doesn't put much thought into their operation.
Also, remember to ask about baby's personality. If there are multiple babies in the clutch, as how their personalities are different or how this baby compares to other red bellies that they've raised. Sometimes you get a clutch where they are all sweet and pretty similar and other times you get one where a certain baby is more snugly, another more adventurous and another more fearful.

 

[camelotshadow]

Yeah, be honest w the breeder. They know the babies & sometimes some are more aloof/distant than others. You can make a request & if they just blow you off then maybe look for another breeder. Good breeders understand.

If they can't deal w some ?'s or desires then pass them by.

 

[Jiffy]

It may be better to call at some point rather than email. Sometimes when you talk to them you can get a better feel about things than when you email, IMO. Asking for photos of the babies is always a good thing and reputable breeders will send you photos and sometimes even videos. I've only had one bird shipped and I asked about the parents, if and when they pull the babies, about the feedings, how they hand raised them, what foods they weaned the babies on to, did the babies have any toys, etc. I was sent photos of the parents and babies. I also made sure there was a health guarantee. You don't have to overload the breeder with lots of questions at once. However, you are asking questions so you can make an informed purchase. You want the breeder to be as transparent as possible and you want to be able to make the best choice. If you are set on a red-bellied parrot you may not have a lot of options due to the fact that there are very few (if any) babies available.

Did you ever contact Jean Pattison?

I did not, but now that it's fresh in my mind, I will tomorrow. What kept me from contacting her before is because I didn't like the shipping idea (that would be the only option for this store) but now I realize I'm not going to have a lot of a choice. So now that I know I'm more than likely getting shipped a bird, I'm going to ask all of these extra questions (Photos and so on) instead of visiting the bird a few times. Even though it might be extra, I know it's definitely necessary. Tomorrow I'm going to try to call AA and AQA and see what happens from there.

 

[Jiffy]

@aooratrix
Yeah I wrote down some questions on my phone a couple hours ago in the case I call them. I'm happy to pay a larger amount only if the breeder is very dedicated to their work and making the baby's healthy. AA says they are hoping for eggs soon, so I'd have to wait an extra amount of time (witch is totally OK as long as I know it's worth it).
Thank you for the suggestions, I'm looking into them and maybe going to contact them too. Does anyone have an opinion about Species Survival Aviaries?
@camelotshadow
I had the same thoughts when I was stressing they would get offended. If I were a breeder, I would be happy if someone asked all those questions It only means they are going to a home that cares about good health and happiness in their birds.

I am very pleased with the response about AA, it makes me more confident about them. I will still ask them questions to confirm they are as amazing as everyone is talking about