Can Good Breeders Be Found at Bird Fairs?

[itzmered]

I think this is a good discussion this is how people make educated decisions on what they chose to do. I also feel that bird fairs and the breeders are lumped into one category and get a bad rap.

I dont understand why people think it is so terrible to buy a bird from a bird fair because of diseases but are perfectly fine with getting that same bird from a rescue later on. Did the bird from the bad breeder that sold at a bird fair that is full of diseases suddenly become a bird that doesnt carry a risk of disease?

 

[atvchick95]

Great discussion. Jen - thanks for posting that article, very informative. I especially liked that it was a scientifically backed study, though I now wonder... Does a bird have to be present for the disease to occur? I mean are they specific to birds only, or can they be found elsewhere, like with reptiles or other animals? Also, going off that study, I wonder what the occurence of finding these diseases on surfaces at a pet store or avian vet would be? (not to cause the "OCD" types any extra stress! - though I guess if that is where your personality leans, you've probably already wondered this...)

if a bird has it , it can be picked up any where including a vets office! and most defiantly at a pet store Even if you went to bird fair that only sold toys and no birds what so ever, one of those vendors has a bird with it, they bring it on their clothes (like everything under the moon says) you'd still take it home

so in a matter of speaking the only way NOT to get it at all is Never to leave your home! rather you go to a persons house that doesn't have birds, They may have a cat or a dog and go to a pet store to get items for their pet - they can carry it home with them just as well, it doesn't only get brought in from Bird owners! its any one who has a pet that goes to any pet shop that has birds with it!

so I guess if people are going to live in fear of bringing it home, maybe living in a bubble is the best place for them. then they'll know their birds won't be getting it That is if the bird(s) they have already don't have it already.

and might as well never get another bird from the net or a rescue, since the disease that people are worried about the most can't even be detected in a live bird.

my point is no one can live their life stressing over every little thing, It's not good for any ones health or sanity

and going through all these measures of Scrubbing your body, shoes, clothes etc. before entering your home with your birds is a bit much most professionals would see this as a PROBLEM and if they knew the extremes most people go through they would probably commit them

 

[Merlie]

I think this is a good discussion this is how people make educated decisions on what they chose to do. I also feel that bird fairs and the breeders are lumped into one category and get a bad rap.

I dont understand why people think it is so terrible to buy a bird from a bird fair because of diseases but are perfectly fine with getting that same bird from a rescue later on. Did the bird from the bad breeder that sold at a bird fair that is full of diseases suddenly become a bird that doesnt carry a risk of disease?

Taking the disease out of the equation .. you just hit the nail on the head on other issue ....

That bird, that a breeder sold at a bird fair, has now ended up in a rescue. Just another soul lost in the system. Another bird sold at a bird fair to someone who perhaps had no clue what they were getting into because that particular breeder didn't want to tell the real story about bird ownership.

Being a responsible breeder is not just about disease .. it's about education, accountability, having a conscience. Doesn't matter whether the bird was sold at a bird fair or not, those 3 issues are what I believe are lacking in many breeders.

JMHO

 

[birdlady]

I think what it comes down to is personal choice...I choose not to do certain things as I think it is a greater risk than others...other people may choose different options. And that is ok. I think we just all need to be informed of all risks in caring for birds and make our own decisions.

 

[itzmered]

You are correct Leslie and just because some of have chosen to buy birds at a bird fair does not mean we are irresponsible bird owners any more than what our choices are on to clip or not to clip. It is an educated decision that each of us makes

 

[Merlie]

and going through all these measures of Scrubbing your body, shoes, clothes etc. before entering your home with your birds is a bit much most professionals would see this as a PROBLEM and if they knew the extremes most people go through they would probably commit them

I guess I should be committed then.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. If I know I've been someplace where other birds are, I do take precautions. I don't do it every time I walk into my house of course, but if I've been to a fair, to someone's home that has birds, to a pet shop that has birds .. I bring out the "HAZ-MAT" gear .. lol .. it's just something I feel I owe to my own birds. Yes, I OWE IT TO THEM TO KEEP THEM HEALTHY!!! If it means a few extra minutes to sanitize myself and things they will be exposed to .. then so be it.

I don't live in a bubble, but I don't live wrapped in the "never happen to me" syndrome either.

 

[jmfleish]

Great discussion. Jen - thanks for posting that article, very informative. I especially liked that it was a scientifically backed study, though I now wonder... Does a bird have to be present for the disease to occur? I mean are they specific to birds only, or can they be found elsewhere, like with reptiles or other animals? Also, going off that study, I wonder what the occurence of finding these diseases on surfaces at a pet store or avian vet would be? (not to cause the "OCD" types any extra stress! - though I guess if that is where your personality leans, you've probably already wondered this...)

Yes, you can find these diseases at pet stores that carry birds and at vet offices. This is another reason I don't like to go to pet stores that carry birds. I do go to the vet though because I feel that vet care trumps the possibility of disease and there aren't hundreds of birds hanging out at the vet like there are at a bird fair, at least not where I take my birds. There's a common area where all clients sit and then there are several exam rooms that are used and always get cleaned in between patients. Another thing that is good to look for when shopping for a vet is a vet who cleans instruments between patients...some do not.

With the vet you are greatly declining the chance of picking up disease but the chance is still there.

 

[HungryBird]

For me it is not about disease, which you can also pick up in a pet store or a vet's office, but it is about the dollars. Why give money to people who I don't think have the best interests of the bird at heart? Why spend money in a fair that allows anyone with a few bucks to set up a table? How is spending money at a bird fair better than spending it at a national chain?

 

[marian]

I don't go to bird fairs either and if i was ever in contact with other birds...you bet i would change my clothes and clean up before touching Hiram.Why take the chance?It only takes alittle precautionary measures.
I know for me,I wouldn't be spending the money on a bird from a breeder...if I was ever to be able to have another bird again..it would be a rehome.Theres just so many in need of homes...and so many who keep breeding and breeding...and I wonder, what percentage of those end up in rescues eventually.The statistic is a parrot changes homes 7 times in its lifetime...kind of sad.

 

[waterfaller1]

I thought the question was "can good breeders be found at bird fairs"
Sure they can, just like all the bad and negative stuff as well. No matter where you go and what you do. You could take some change from a cashier at your local grocer, she may have just skimmed the last few dollars off the top of the pile. The person who just paid for their bill before you has a flock of birds at home and several of them have PDD. So, I can get it anywhere at any time. Do I worry about those last three dollars I put in my purse, no. Am I cautious and careful when I go anywhere where I know for a fact there could be birds with disease? Of course I am. I wouldn't intentionally harm my birds for love or money.

 

[Nikki]

I am more worried about picking up something off the street from wild birds...That is why I don't have a bird feeder in my yard...I would love one, I love watching wild birds, but here in FL they flock to them, and my dogs play in my yard, to easy for them to bring something inside... There is one house up the street that puts food out for their birds and his entire roof is filled with pigeons. On my way into my shoe shop I have to walk on a sidewalk that is flocked with birds that is one reason why I don't allow shoes in my house. Every time we leave our house we have a chance of bringing something in.

How many people on here are saying they don't do this and that for fear, but when they go on vacation they hire a bird sitter that most likely has birds at home...Do you make them change their cloths into something that you provide for them?

I think everyone needs to educate themselves so they can give the best care that they think is right for their birds, not what anyone else thinks is right.

 

[itzmered]

I thought the question was "can good breeders be found at bird fairs"
Sure they can, just like all the bad and negative stuff as well. No matter where you go and what you do. You could take some change from a cashier at your local grocer, she may have just skimmed the last few dollars off the top of the pile. The person who just paid for their bill before you has a flock of birds at home and several of them have PDD. So, I can get it anywhere at any time. Do I worry about those last three dollars I put in my purse, no. Am I cautious and careful when I go anywhere where I know for a fact there could be birds with disease? Of course I am. I wouldn't intentionally harm my birds for love or money.

I totally agree. I take precautions after going to bird fairs and when buying toys too.

 

[waterfaller1]

I have to say this one thing because it's just eating me up.
You cannot sit on both sides of the fence. If it were up to some of you, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, there would be no need for Avian Avenue..because birds as pets would not be allowed at all. You cannot sit there and say..I do my part because I only take in birds that are rescues..not babies.., then pour your money into the industry that supports breeders..backyard or otherwise, petcos and all that goes with that, and everything else.
The only way to be sure you won't have to deal with bird's diseases is to not have birds at all.
The only way the rescues will stop having birds that people misunderstood, did not know what they were getting into, abused, gave poor nutrition to, etc, etc..is to not allow any birds for anyone ever again. Is that what you really want?

 

[birdlady]

Some good points being made her...Nikki you are right...when I have the bird groomers come, they come from the vet's office and they do not shower or change...yes, they wash hands but that is all.

And I never said I would never get a baby, because I have two as babies..well three if you include Maya, but I can say right now that I would rather take in one that needs a home...at least at this point in my life that is how I feel. And i am not anti- breeding at all....I am just for responsible breeding.

 

[thejoie]

Wouldn't rescue birds have the same potential of carrying disease as bird fair birds? Who knows what a bird that is being given up has been in contact with and how strict those people were...
I've rescued many birds and even if I QT and vet check them, the risk of PDD is still there. Plus with how hard it is to do a proper QT....

Aren't people who bring adopted birds home putting their birds at risk too... yep!

There are risks everywhere. I agree with Chris's statement- you need to make yourself aware but it's impossible to live in a bubble.

 

[jmfleish]

I am also definitely not anti-breeder, I just think that there are far more bad breeders than there are good breeders and we have to be educated as clients when we choose to buy or even bring a bird into our home if we already have birds in our home.

The chances of bringing in a disease from outside our house is small unless there is a bird disease that has been identified in your area such as ENC in the early 2000s. The chances of bringing in PDD from money that you got at a grocery store because the person who paid before you had birds that had PDD is almost nil as well. The chances that you pick up disease from a bird fair where there are hundreds of birds from dozens of different breeders that you have no idea of knowing how they care for their birds? Your chances are going up 100%.

Yes, it's an individual choice. Yes, we've all done things in the past that we might not do now. After knowing that these diseases do exist at bird fairs and are even found more as carriers in small birds that are most often found at bird fairs, do you think you'll buy birds at bird fairs in the future? For me, this is definitely a no brainer, but then again, I know people who are currently going through PDD or have lost birds to PDD. I know people who have lost birds to PBFD, whole flocks. Same with Polyoma...not something I ever want to experience and I'll take precautions that make sense to me. Being careful about where I get my birds from...that seems like an easy precaution to take.

 

[Merlie]

I have to say this one thing because it's just eating me up.
You cannot sit on both sides of the fence. If it were up to some of you, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, there would be no need for Avian Avenue..because birds as pets would not be allowed at all. You cannot sit there and say..I do my part because I only take in birds that are rescues..not babies.., then pour your money into the industry that supports breeders..backyard or otherwise, petcos and all that goes with that, and everything else.
The only way to be sure you won't have to deal with bird's diseases is to not have birds at all.
The only way the rescues will stop having birds that people misunderstood, did not know what they were getting into, abused, gave poor nutrition to, etc, etc..is to not allow any birds for anyone ever again. Is that what you really want?

I don't want that to happen!! I look at my birds, <the rehomes>, and know that somewhere out there, whether "good" or "bad" I have a breeder to thank for them.

I guess it's a matter of education, which starts right here, at home, so to speak.

We can't blame the breeders per say .. they're just doing their thing, but perhaps with each person that may come here, or to any bird related forum, we can educate .. help them make an informed decision before they buy.

Perhaps we'll never "stop" diseases from spreading, but the more educated we become about them, the more we can do to slow the spread.

Perhaps we'll never prevent the irresponsible breeders from breeding, but if we educate on what to look for from a breeder, what questions to ask .. etc., then maybe we can stop people from buying from the careless/unethical type breeders.

One step at a time, every day, just one step. Before you know it, all those steps have gone miles and miles and miles.

 

[waterfaller1]

And Carole, I never said I would never get a baby because I have gotten two as babies..well three if you include Maya, but I can say right now that I would rather take in one that needs a home...at least at this point in my life that is how I feel. And i am not anti- breeding at all....I am just for responsible breeding.

No, that was not directed at any one person..not at all. It's just a way some people have of making others who make choices for themselves in their own life, seem like they are the bad guys who perpetuate all the bad things associated with keeping birds. You just cannot have it both ways. Can we make a difference by educating others...why yes we can. We can certainly at the very least, make sure that every person who joins this forum feels welcome enough to stick around, and try to lead them in the right direction to all they need to know to make their bird healthy, happy, and whole.

 

[itzmered]

Well said Carole!

 

[birdlady]

I agree Carole...well said.