Can Good Breeders Be Found at Bird Fairs?

[jmfleish]

add another to the list not only have I gotten to date 5 birds from bird fairs in 3 years I've sold birds at a bird fair
But I can guarantee I am NOT Uneducated nor am I irresponsible

I am very well EDUCATED AND RESPONSIBLE

and I am beyond sick of being lumped into the group of "Back Yard Breeders"

I guarantee that when I take birds to bird fairs there are not a ton of birds shoved into one small cage I use big cages last one I went to I had a small one with 2 parrotlets in it, my normal budgie breeding cage that had maybe 6 budgies, a big cage with 4 cockatiels and the green cheek baby played on top of a cage or sat with us and played, they all had fresh clean food and water and all had toys

So STOP assuming every one is bad just because you've seen SOME bad breeders at a bird fair NOT every one is same and I'm sick of being lumped in that category

its beyond offensive!!!!!!

Kelli,

How can you read the following article and still feel comfortable taking your birds to bird fairs to sell?

Old World Aviaries: Bird marts

Disease is a very real problem at bird fairs and you can take the best care of your birds and it doesn't matter because what about all the other people who also bring their birds? You expose your birds to everyone else's birds and you have no idea what those birds may or may not have.

I'm not saying that you're a bad breeder, but I do think you're taking a huge risk by selling your birds at bird fairs. You yourself said that you don't make much money doing it and the table charge alone is amazingly high and maybe not worth it. Why even do it then?

All I know for certain is that I would never put my flock in jeopardy and I think that everyone should read the article that I posted.

 

[waterfaller1]

So let's just say PDD as we know cannot be detected until a bird dies. As stated it can lie dormant for 10 years +.How do you know for sure then, that any bird, no matter where you get it has it? Rehome a bird from a sanctuary or rescue, still a chance of getting a bird with this disease, right?

 

[atvchick95]

I know what MOST of you say goes on at bird fairs and since I just bought 3 birds in 2 months at a bird fair and still NOTHING is wrong with them Again NOT all birds are diseased ridden at bird fairs How do you think I got my Grey or my pair of Blue IRNS? sure the heck wasn't from a breeder or online! IT WAS BIRD FAIRS! Got my grey in Sept my IRNS in OCT. and guess what they're ALL HEALTHY AS HORSES

let people do as they want, and stop degrading them for buying at bird fairs Oh and I get my food there too BUT the vendor doesn't own a single bird! So there!

and yep I've bought toys and no I don't scrub them before hand I don't live in a bubble!!!!!!! I get home I give the toys to who ever I bought them for

nothing or no one has yet been able to change my mind about bird fairs a few bad seeds aren't enough to do it!

 

[Bokkapooh]

Do you take your birds on outings in a full size cage that you would use in your house? The breeder I bought Jasper from has her birds in small cages at the bird fair but that is not the way they live in her home.

Being overcrowded in a small cage, in an unfamiliar location with many birds around you, being so stressed and possibly picked on or being the bully bird, birds around you, some sick, some frightened, seeing new faces every few seconds, the birds who come in sicks spreading their disease to the birds who are stressed, and then those birds may eventually become sick OR SHEAD IT OFF THEM and give it to the birds around them and it keeps on spreading and birds gets sick and die. Its just not fair to the birds. Its horribly mean and cruel IMO.

I hate seeing birds in small cages, possibly overcrowded at bird fairs/shows. IMO its disgusting. Its just as bad as petsmart or petco and how they keep their birds. If I wouldnt buy at petco or petsmart, why a fair/show?

 

[birdlady]

I agree...gosh when I first met my husband he had Apollo our mealy. I never ever even touched a bird in my life until then. At that time he took Apollo out with out a carrier or harness...in his pickup with the windows open as Apollo held the headrest! he took him to the shore! Gosh, the nightmares I get when I think back to then. lol But I slowly learned more and more....Back then we did not have internet, not even a computer! So we knew very little....but over the years I have learned so much and with some things I choose not to take the risk....and this situation would be one for me....

I think we need to keep sharing stories and information and not judge others as we do it...we always have so much to learn and this is such a great way to do it!

 

[jmfleish]

I know what MOST of you say goes on at bird fairs and since I just bought 3 birds in 2 months at a bird fair and still NOTHING is wrong with them Again NOT all birds are diseased ridden at bird fairs How do you think I got my Grey or my pair of Blue IRNS? sure the heck wasn't from a breeder or online! IT WAS BIRD FAIRS! Got my grey in Sept my IRNS in OCT. and guess what they're ALL HEALTHY AS HORSES

let people do as they want, and stop degrading them for buying at bird fairs Oh and I get my food there too BUT the vendor doesn't own a single bird! So there!

and yep I've bought toys and no I don't scrub them before hand I don't live in a bubble!!!!!!! I get home I give the toys to who ever I bought them for

nothing or no one has yet been able to change my mind about bird fairs a few bad seeds aren't enough to do it!

Kelli,

Did you read the article I posted? Please read it.

 

[Bokkapooh]

So let's just say PDD as we know cannot be detected until a bird dies. As stated it can lie dormant for 10 years +.How do you know for sure then, that any bird, no matter where you get it has it? Rehome a bird from a sanctuary or rescue, still a chance of getting a bird with this disease, right?

My vet says an XRAY of the organs early on can actually detect PDD early on- Avian and Exotic clinic in Bothell WA - Dr. Nicholson.

But you are right, you never know. Which is why quarantine is very important making sure your bird is thoroughl vet checked (blood tests, disease tests and Xrays,etc) and the birds it was around checked out thoroughly too.

 

[atvchick95]

I've seen many birds at fairs I've bought many birds at fairs I see MORE SICK BIRDS AT A PET SHOP! more NASTY DIRTY CAGES AT PET SHOPS, THE WATER AND FOOD AT EVERY BIRD FAIR I"VE BEEN TO HAS BEEN CLEAN AND FRESH- PET SHOPS - NEVER

I haven't bought from a pet shop in 3 years because their birds are always sick looking and the cages are filthy and water is green and slimy and they have no food

So I choose to go to a bird fair I've been to many times over that have HEALTHY birds clean cages, food and clean water!

why do I go to a bird fair to sell my birds? Because I do. shouldn't matter where I sell them - that really is no ones business but my own where I sell them or where I get them from or how much I pay for them and since I only go to 2 bird fairs, Highly rated bird fairs and i've never seen a sick or even looking like it was sick bird there I will continue to go, In almost 4 years none of my birds have "suffered" because I got a bird from a bird fair or Went to a bird fair

and like Carole said - what makes getting one off line any safer? or at a rescue - not all of them test for all diseases... it doesn't make it any safer YET you all PUSH it on to people to "Adopt" Well how many have adopted SICK BIRDS FROM "RESCUES" AND OFF THE INTERNET?

I haven't ! BUT I do KNOW many here have! and did NOT know prior they were sick!

 

[Bokkapooh]

Very good discussion. I'll try and pick it back up when I get off work. Have fun, and be civil you guys

 

[atvchick95]

Kelli,

Did you read the article I posted? Please read it.

yes months ago when it was posted on this same topic I'm not going to re read it

like i said a few bad seeds doesn't make up for ALL OF THEM!

 

[jmfleish]

So let's just say PDD as we know cannot be detected until a bird dies. As stated it can lie dormant for 10 years +.How do you know for sure then, that any bird, no matter where you get it has it? Rehome a bird from a sanctuary or rescue, still a chance of getting a bird with this disease, right?

You are absolutely correct, you will not know for sure that any bird you get, a rehome, a rescue, even a new baby bird will have PDD. It's a very hideous disease. You do bring your chances of bringing the disease home much smaller by really knowing the breeder that you are dealing with and getting a bird from a truly closed aviary but even that isn't 100%. With rehomes and birds from rescues, take your time, know the bird's past and all the birds it had been around. I was very hesitant to take Clancy in at 16 but he hadn't been around any other birds for most of his life. I felt comfortable enough to do it.

I also vet every single bird before they come into this house or shortly after and test for Psittacosis, Polyoma, and PBFD. I want to be absolutely certain that these diseases do not come into my home. I'm most likely finished bringing birds into my home and my birds do not come in contact with other birds and do not go out other than to go to the vet which I do do every year or two.

I do all this because I want to ensure their health. Did I always know all this? No, I learned as I went along and also had a great teacher. When it comes to these diseases, it can get very, very scary.

Forgot, they do go to my parent's house but my parents do not have birds.

 

[Birdiemarie]

We would like to keep this thread open since there is good discussion going on. Please post calmly with no accusations or we will have to start deleting posts.

 

[Spinderella]

guess that is why i'm not a normal "breeder" I actually spent well over 2 hrs at a bird fair Talking to a person interested in one of my babies I was hand feeding at the time, I didn't take them to sell them I took them because they were still being fed every 4 hrs and I was no where near home to keep going home and feeding them. I asked questions as did she, By the end of our conversation She was giving me her Email and put a deposit down on the baby!

I always educate the people buying my birds

I wasn't referring to you, personally. I have never met you, nor seen the conditions that you keep your birds in. I was simply stating my opinion based on what I have seen, visiting & being a vendor in bird fairs all over the country over the past 10 years.

But What ever , every one is going to keep putting all breeders down who sell at a bird fair but I'll keep stating no we all don't make a quick buck It costs to set up it's not cheap, cost to get there- gas isn't free. and If you only sell 1-4 birds at 10 to 20 dollars each your not coming out making anything your just being buried in a hole

I know breeders don't sell at bird fairs to make bank, I know most breeders are lucky if they even break even selling their birds when you take into account the amount of money it costs to properly breed & raise birds. What I meant was that when a breeder has "over stock," they typically bring them to a bird fair to "get rid" of them because they aren't selling on a normal basis.

And again; if it's costing you so much and seems to be such a hassle, then why do you sell your birds at bird fairs?

but what ever keep telling every one at bird fairs that are selling birds are evil people and I'll keep going and proving it wrong

l never said this, and again: I didn't mean any offense, I was just stating my opinion.

 

[jmfleish]

My vet says an XRAY of the organs early on can actually detect PDD early on- Avian and Exotic clinic in Bothell WA - Dr. Nicholson.

Even radiographs will not tell you for sure whether or not a bird has PDD. It will just tell you if the proventriculus is enlarged. The only way to tell if a bird has PDD is to do a necropsy and histopathology after death which is also a really good reason to do this on all the birds that die in your care, regardless of how they die.

 

[waterfaller1]

My vet says an XRAY of the organs early on can actually detect PDD early on- Avian and Exotic clinic in Bothell WA - Dr. Nicholson.

But you are right, you never know. Which is why quarantine is very important making sure your bird is thoroughl vet checked (blood tests, disease tests and Xrays,etc) and the birds it was around checked out thoroughly too.

Your vet would be dead wrong then. Some can be detected, because the proventricular{or however it's spelled} is dilated. But, not all, and tests won't show anything. Neither will QT stop this terrible disease.

 

[jmfleish]

Taken from Old World Aviaries: Bird marts


Suspect breeds [For Disease at Bird Fairs]

Although all types of psittacines may contract or carry any of the "Big Three" diseases, certain species appear to be hosts for them. PBFD appears to have found a home within lovebirds. Lovebirds can develop all majors signs of the disease and survive. The relationship between Lovebirds and PBFD is still not fully understood. In colonies of lovebirds with PBFD, infection rates of up to 100% are common.


Budgies (parakeets) have found a way to co-exist with Polyoma Virus even though infection rates are very high. Nestling mortality, feather abnormalities - crawlers- and acute juvenile deaths are all typical of this virus. Polyoma Virus perpetuates itself with each successive generation and may be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to eliminate from breeding colonies.


Cockatiels appear to be the group of parrots most able to survive with endemic Chlamydial infections. Only recently has a reliable test for Chlamydia been available. We can now accurately screen these birds for infection as opposed to utilizing non-specific tests such as protein electrophoresis, B-ELISA or nebulous clinical signs which mimic many other diseases.


Not only do these three groups of birds comprise the greatest reservoir of the three major diseases, they also comprise the greatest number of birds present at typical bird events. It is hardly a surprise that the 'Big Three' diseases continue to remain so prevalent today!


So why all the concern over "bird events"? First and foremost, these deadly disease causing organisms are found throughout the entire "bird event" area. It is in the air, on hair, clothing and shoes, table tops, toys, supplies, cages, foods, virtually everything in the area! People and birds may not have entered with any of these diseases, but they definitely leave with them! As Dr. David Phalen of Texas A & M stated, "People come looking for bargains, real or perceived, but the bad news is the diseases are free." People take them wherever they go, to their favorite pet store, their friends homes and home to their own birds. Their role as courier has gone totally unnoticed!
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I just wanted to add that the birds that you almost always see at bird fairs are the small ones mentioned above that are going to be the most likely to spread disease.

 

[atvchick95]

I wasn't referring to you, personally. I have never met you, nor seen the conditions that you keep your birds in. I was simply stating my opinion based on what I have seen, visiting & being a vendor in bird fairs all over the country over the past 10 years.

I know breeders don't sell at bird fairs to make bank, I know most breeders are lucky if they even break even selling their birds when you take into account the amount of money it costs to properly breed & raise birds. What I meant was that when a breeder has "over stock," they typically bring them to a bird fair to "get rid" of them because they aren't selling on a normal basis.

And again; if it's costing you so much and seems to be such a hassle, then why do you sell your birds at bird fairs?

l never said this, and again: I didn't mean any offense, I was just stating my opinion.

I wasn't just addressing you, I was addressing all the other bits and pieces that were posted as well, instead of posting several times just for one small section i just posted it all at once - Sorry it made it seem like it was all towards you -I didn't mean it like that

 

[Spinderella]

I wasn't just addressing you, I was addressing all the other bits and pieces that were posted as well, instead of posting several times just for one small section i just posted it all at once - Sorry it made it seem like it was all towards you -I didn't mean it like that

Okay, sorry - I assumed you were talking only to me b/c all of it followed a quote of my post.

 

[atvchick95]

Okay, sorry - I assumed you were talking only to me b/c all of it followed a quote of my post.

Sorry I have a habit of doing that- my mind wonders and goes 100mph If i'm typing and remember something was said 3 pages back, I'll reply to that at the same time as my main post

I need to try not to do that any more

 

[rikkitikki]

Great discussion. Jen - thanks for posting that article, very informative. I especially liked that it was a scientifically backed study, though I now wonder... Does a bird have to be present for the disease to occur? I mean are they specific to birds only, or can they be found elsewhere, like with reptiles or other animals? Also, going off that study, I wonder what the occurence of finding these diseases on surfaces at a pet store or avian vet would be? (not to cause the "OCD" types any extra stress! - though I guess if that is where your personality leans, you've probably already wondered this...)