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Which species is beat for me?

Maso0od

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Masoud
Mine can come out in groups of 2 or 3, and by the end of the day everyone is beak-grinding happily. Would each one rather have 100% of my time? Sure, but then 7 other birds might still be bouncing from home to home (probably best case scenario), suffering in neglect, or even be dead. Eventually when some of these guys pass on, I’ll keep the household number to no more than 4 birds because 8 is very challenging.
Do I have any ways to make my first bird more friendly and welcoming towards other birds of his/her own size? I don’t really want to expose the bird to a bunch of birds that are not physically approved for my own standards. Any ideas?
And I really don’t think the idea of getting them all at the same time would be a good idea cuz I insist to know any individual bird that comes before thinking about adding another. Actually in my own standards every pet should be completely understood to the owner so I would be able to tell by the looks if anything is wrong.
 

Maso0od

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if you are wanting a GCC, then I would go for that first. They are not too much bigger than a lovebird.
They are popular amongst new bird owners.

But again, if there is a bird that you think is a better fit for you, no matter what that species is, then go for it. Some people get macaws or ever cockatoos as first birds because that is the bird they wanted and thought was a good fit for them.
I love the sound of this idea and I still love them all for their lifestyle. My dream bird could be any species cuz I am not that crazy about the looks and behaviors are more determined by individuals. U think I should research more and prepare for the one I decide to get? Rather than starting small?
 

Maso0od

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Parrotlets are a little smaller that budgies, and lovebirds a little bigger. English budgies are quite bigger than regular budgies, so if you want a bigger bird and a budgie those may work for you.
I agree with @tka that if you want a bigger bird to begin with, get a bigger bird. Budgies are often thought of as starter birds because they are little and relatively easy to take care of, but they live a long time (10-20 years), and obviously nobody wants to spend 20 years of their life with a bird they didn’t want to begin with. Again, if your intention isn’t to get a so called “starter bird”, but you actually want two different bird species, then I say go for a green cheek. GCCs aren’t all that big anyways.
It still isn’t safe to let them out with budgies though.
Tnx. I am actually surprised to read comments about “get the one you want” cuz I was expecting it here lol
I thought everyone here would be suggesting a small bird but as the thread goes forward I am getting your mindsets way better.
I will have to dig more and postpone the buying of a bird til I am 100 % sure what species I want. If I understood correctly my first bird could be my last due to jealousy, compatibility or any other individual preference of the first bird. Or I am wrong?
 

fluffypoptarts

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Do I have any ways to make my first bird more friendly and welcoming towards other birds of his/her own size? I don’t really want to expose the bird to a bunch of birds that are not physically approved for my own standards. Any ideas?
And I really don’t think the idea of getting them all at the same time would be a good idea cuz I insist to know any individual bird that comes before thinking about adding another. Actually in my own standards every pet should be completely understood to the owner so I would be able to tell by the looks if anything is wrong.
Other than being the same species, it’s very much trial and error. I had to work out through different combinations which birds worked together. Twinkie was tricky because he’s so jealous and won’t accept any bird infringing too much on his person, but his brother Fishy is very quick and reads him well, so he stays just out of range. Toki works with them because he adores Fishy, Fishy accepts him, he follows Fishy’s lead, and he’s not intimidated by Twinkie.

I agree that you should add birds slowly rather than getting them all at once. It’s a good idea to take your time getting to know each bird, and letting them get to know you. That will also give you a better idea about personality compatibility with future birds.
 

Meerkat07

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I don’t know if I was right when I read Poi (stands for poicephalus) so I think it led to a misunderstanding of Pionus/Poicephalus lol

Here I have no neighbors in 3-4 block around the place so the noise could only be a problem to my own ears (and no one else) and I have read and tried some ways to curve such behaviour and tbh I am not sure that I can utilize it on a very stubborn bird like a Caique or a cockatoo. Anyway I have to think about when an emergency situation arises and someone else needs to take care of the bird if I am sick or out for any reason for the next 20-30 yrs. Quakers are charming and I really like them. I also heard they are mostly less active than an average gcc, right?
Yes they are a bit less active (but not by much) and since noise is not a problem I think Quakers would be great for you! If you were to go on vacation or something and couldn't take care of the birds you should probably go to a friend with bird experience, or family, or a bird sitter although you can't leave for very long. If you have any doubt you might not be able to care for the bird for 20-30 (especially since Quakers only lice for 15-20 years) years, I suggest you stop thinking about getting one. You may be able to rehome the bird but its not very fair to the bird.
 

tka

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Yes, your first bird could be your last! It all depends on individual dynamics.

Something that you will have to learn is that dominance and leadership doesn't work with birds as it does with dogs. Wild parrot flocks don't use dominance. Instead, flock dynamics are a process of constantly shifting negotiation. You'll have to get used to asking your bird something and accepting their "no". For example, you ask a bird to step up - and if they don't want to, you have to accept that. You must never force a bird to do something unless it's for their own safety. You can use treats to make something more appealing. However, you can't "make" a bird do anything it doesn't want to. Forcing a bird to do something will destroy the trust between you.
 

Zara

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U think I should research more and prepare for the one I decide to get?
Exactly :)
(This is what Tka was saying a few pages back)
 

Maso0od

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Yes, your first bird could be your last! It all depends on individual dynamics.

Something that you will have to learn is that dominance and leadership doesn't work with birds as it does with dogs. Wild parrot flocks don't use dominance. Instead, flock dynamics are a process of constantly shifting negotiation. You'll have to get used to asking your bird something and accepting their "no". For example, you ask a bird to step up - and if they don't want to, you have to accept that. You must never force a bird to do something unless it's for their own safety. You can use treats to make something more appealing. However, you can't "make" a bird do anything it doesn't want to. Forcing a bird to do something will destroy the trust between you.
So all I have been reading is quite right about birds and establishing dominance works against my friendship with the bird. Now I know why my first bird could be my last. Honestly it won't be the easiest part selecting the exact favorite species and go with it with that notion in mind but if I want a bird it seems to be the safest way for both of us.
When the bird is established and we know each other well enough, how can I say if he is welcoming to another bird or not? Is there any way except buying the second one and see how the react towards each other?
 

webchirp

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If your intention is to get a larger bird, then get the larger bird. Read this before you do anything


Even a smaller bird, like a GCC, can live into their twenties. It's still a long term commitment. A smaller bird requires space, enrichment and toys, care, and attention. A smaller bird is still going to need vet care and time out of its cage. A smaller bird will almost certainly not be able to come out of its cage at the same time as a larger bird - the difference in size, and especially beak size, could be fatal for the smaller bird. Those who have both (like @sunnysmom @JLcribber and @finchly) need to manage their time and space very carefully and have to be very commited to their small birds' safety.

Smaller birds deserve better than someone who is using them simply to gain experience so they can get the big bird of their dreams.
Yep, Bitty bird was over 20 when I got him and I've had him four years I think in October. He is really starting to show his age...upped his lasix so I know his time is limited now but he's probably 25 or 26.

Sadly the vet said the average span of cheeky ages at the vet are around 9. Little buggers get into accidents a lot.
 

tka

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So all I have been reading is quite right about birds and establishing dominance works against my friendship with the bird?
A lot of older sources have a misguided view of parrots and dominance. New research and careful observation of wild parrots shows that parrots don't exhibit dominance as we initially thought. For example, you may have read that parrots "show dominance" by climbing to a high perch or place in the room. More careful observation shows that a parrot occupying a high perch is there as a sentry or lookout for the flock. If the sentry bird sees a predator, she or he will sound an alarm call so the rest of the flock can hide or fly away (some species have different alarm calls for different predators that prompt different behaviours; the alarm call for "snake" will make the flock fly away because snakes will climb trees, but the alarm call for "hawk" will make the flock hide in trees). This is a temporary role, and another parrot will climb or fly to the high perch to take over so that the sentry bird can forage, play and relax.

Your aim is to be a good flock member to your bird. A parrot will take its cues from you. If you are anxious or stressed out, your parrot will think that there's something worth being anxious about (like a predator or something else unsafe) and will also be stressed and nervous. If you approach things with confidence, your parrot will be reassured that there's nothing to worry about.

A good flock member is reliable and trustworthy, and asks rather than demands. With experience, you will find ways of persiading a parrot that something is their idea rather than yours.
 

Maso0od

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Exactly :)
(This is what Tka was saying a few pages back)
Well I think I need to start over and this time with a specific Genus or Species to research and read. (From this point it seems almost impossible to separate a Genus from others but it is what it is)

Something off-topic :
I wrote a lot about the parentheses but then I thought it's way off-topic so I deleted it. Just wanna tell u I have no problem with him (her?) or anyone else here. I know everyone here wants the best for birds and I respect that. We didn't get into real argument but even if we did, I will keep respecting the person for what they say and for their love for animals cuz as a former forum moderator (reptile forums) I know how frustrating it is to answer the same question for the thousand times to ppl who are not willing to read anything except a few lines of forum threads.

We, animal lovers maybe short tempered but we always manage to be nice to everyone.

thanks anyway
 

Maso0od

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A lot of older sources have a misguided view of parrots and dominance. New research and careful observation of wild parrots shows that parrots don't exhibit dominance as we initially thought. For example, you may have read that parrots "show dominance" by climbing to a high perch or place in the room. More careful observation shows that a parrot occupying a high perch is there as a sentry or lookout for the flock. If the sentry bird sees a predator, she or he will sound an alarm call so the rest of the flock can hide or fly away (some species have different alarm calls for different predators that prompt different behaviours; the alarm call for "snake" will make the flock fly away because snakes will climb trees, but the alarm call for "hawk" will make the flock hide in trees). This is a temporary role, and another parrot will climb or fly to the high perch to take over so that the sentry bird can forage, play and relax.

Your aim is to be a good flock member to your bird. A parrot will take its cues from you. If you are anxious or stressed out, your parrot will think that there's something worth being anxious about (like a predator or something else unsafe) and will also be stressed and nervous. If you approach things with confidence, your parrot will be reassured that there's nothing to worry about.

A good flock member is reliable and trustworthy, and asks rather than demands. With experience, you will find ways of persiading a parrot that something is their idea rather than yours.
So almost every book I have read agrees with you. Oldest book I have read is Psittaculture by Tony Silva. I have also read Guide to Parrot Touching and Handling by Johanne Vaillancourt, Manual of Parrot behavior by Andrew Luescher and some others along with some other minor books. All of them confirm what u say except "Sentry" thing which is quite new to me. I need to dig more into it, so I really don't know how old should a book be to talk about dominance lol
In my experience the contagious stress is true about all the animals in different grades and seem to be at highest lvl in parrots, maybe comparable to some spcesi of Chameleons and snakes. (Most species are hands off or they won't eat to the point of death)
So you think if I act cool towards a stranger bird, my bird has the higher chance of getting along?
 

Zara

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how can I say if he is welcoming to another bird or not? Is there any way except buying the second one and see how the react towards each other?
You wouldn´t know until you brought home that second bird.
It can be a gamble for many who bring home a second bird hoping they will be friendly, sometimes they hit it off and enjoy the company, other times they do not like the other bird, other times they spend years bickering, then make friends, other times they in time learn to tolerate the other but never make friends.

Sadly the vet said the average span of cheeky ages at the vet are around 9. Little buggers get into accidents a lot.
That is awfully sad :(

Have you considered adoption at all?
I´m wondering if this is not an option for wherever OP is located. Fostering would be the best answer in this situation, to get to know a few different species of birds and learn to care for them and live with them on a temporary basis until they make a decision, however again, I´m not sure if this is an option for OP.
@Maso0od Are these posibilities?
 

Maso0od

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Have you considered adoption at all? There are needy birds most places that would love to be in a good home such as yours must be.
I really wish I could adopt one. I say it from the bottom of my heart. Let me explain the situation :

In my country, even dogs and cats live in miserable conditions in shelters and this is why I used to keep some of them as long as I could (They originally belonged to the shelters but they were in my hands for treatments before going to the organization) in my own place to not let them go in those sh... places. Now there are a few shelters for birds and trust me, you don't even wanna see them. I kept a tiel and a CAG in my place for months only to find a decent forever home. I was not able to keep a parrot for a long time considering my previous job and place situation cuz I was leaving in an apartment with close neighbors. Every time I go to bird sanctuary websites I regret that we have no such thing here and that's a shame. I even tried to contact them to send me a bird but how can they trust me when I live in a country that they have no access to me? Even legal issues would be involved if I can manage to convince a shelter to send me a bird and if the bird should be quarantined here, why do I bother to suffer the bird at all? I feel really sorry for rehomed birds and neglected and abused ones but there is really no way I can put an end to their misery from where I live. I even worked with wildlife services to help them but everything seems to be futile.

Now so many things have changed. I have no neighbors, I work with a vet which is experienced enough about birds and is an old friend of mine. She cherish birds and treat animals like I have never seen here in any other vet. I have enough room and budget to accommodate a large bird. This is what I was looking for and worked hard to achieve it, although some of my friends tell me that I'm stupid to leave the capital that I was born in only to live in a small town near a coast, but for me it's an improvement even if I am not at the center of everything in a major clinic.
 

Maso0od

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I´m wondering if this is not an option for wherever OP is located. Fostering would be the best answer in this situation, to get to know a few different species of birds and learn to care for them and live with them on a temporary basis until they make a decision, however again, I´m not sure if this is an option for OP.
@Maso0od Are these posibilities?

I tried to be thorough in the last post but I assume it wasn't loaded yet in your browser. Idk what to say but that is a shame for anyone living in this country. The least I can do is buy from a friend of mine with almost infinite access to different species of birds. One of the reasons I wasn't looking for larger birds is that I am not sure if they are bred here or being imported from South East Asia. :banghead:
 

Maso0od

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Other question that is keeping my mind busy is :

How is the situation of Asian parrots (especially indian species) like Alex, IRN and also african parrots (except African Grey) in the dust issue that we talked about? Are they fine living in the same room with the new world species? How about living with Aussie species? I have had an IRN when I was a child (My mom used to take care of it) but I don't really recall if he was dusty or not.
 
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