Which species is beat for me?

[Maso0od]

Different bird species are wildly different when it comes to temperament, behaviour and how they interact with humans. By getting a smaller bird, you're only really learning anything about that type of bird - and may be totally unprepared for what a different species will throw your way. I have a Pionus. Even interacting with Greys is totally different than interacting with her. I can't read them in the same way as I can her, even though a small Grey may only weigh 100g more than her. With Leia, I only need to glance at her to know what mood she's in...the Greys I've met have been pretty much inscrutable. I could try interacting with a Caique - maybe weighing about 80g less than her - and it would be like interacting with a totally different animal. I read what people say about their greys or caiques on here and am amazed that they're all parrots. It's a totally different experience.

Different bird species are also very hard to keep safely together ESPECIALLY when you start mixing beak sizes. A parrotlet, for example, will try to pick a fight with an Amazon. What an Amazon thinks of as a warning nip can kill a little bird. There are posts on this forum where someone's big bird has killed or seriously injured a smaller bird. Leia is super gentle with me, but the fact is that she weighs 250g and a budgie weighs 30g. Her beak alone is the size of a budgie's head. She just has to be in a bad mood and the budgie gets severely injured.

She's also my first bird. Pionus are the only species I'm reallly interested in. I never had a bird before Leia and I knew it wasn't fair to get a bird species that I wasn't passionate about. I did a lot of research and planning, joined an in-person Parrot Club and went to their meetings, talked to lots of people including parrot behaviourists and breeders, and took the plunge and got her. It was scary but the best decision I could have made.

Thanks. You are obviously a parrot expert that could lead me in the right direction. So what is your advice for someone like me with unimaginable passion for almost every parrot that I see?
U suggest me to start a flock in similar sizes? Even species? Leaving the idea of a flock? I am all ears.
Tnx in advance

 

[Maso0od]

well I recommend
Green Cheeks
Senegals
Pionus
But I can't guarantee they'll be good with birds also make sure to adopt

Sorry idk why I hadn’t seen your post yet.
Pionus are very inscrutable to me lol. I am yet to see what they have to offer. Senegals and gcc’s that I have met were all very friendly but I know they won’t always be.
I have managed to keep the dogs away from the rooms that parrots would be kept. Should I still be concerned?

 

[tka]

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll respond as if you weren't...

If you want a flock that will be able to interact with each other and come out at the same time, then I advise you to pick one type of parrot and stick to it. @webchirp has a group of smaller pyrrhura conures, @expressmailtome @Macawnutz and @aooratrix have groups of macaws, many people here have flocks of tiels or budgies. Be prepared for them not to get on and have a plan for what you'll do if that happens. For example, you may need to form two flocks and let them have separate out of cage time. You will obviously have to have enough space to be able to achieve this.

Trying to keep, for example, a parrotlet, a conure, an amazon and a macaw happy in one home is going to be intensely difficult. They will need separate out of cage time - let's say 3-4 hours a day for each species - so it would be a full time job just rotating round them. All of them will want your attention. You may encounter jealousy. You may have to deal with them winding each other up by landing on each other's cage, leading to bitten toes and other injuries. They will be able to call to each other, but they won't be able to share cages, preen each other, sleep next to each other or other flock activities.

I really encourage you to really think about which species draws you and which best fit the space and time that you have available.

 

[sunnysmom]

I think I get what u mean. U are lucky to have them all bonded to u. My new personal situation is very flexible and finally the time has come to add some birds. I have kept different animals but noise problem in apartment was a real issue. Now I have almost no neighbors. Do u agree that I start gradually with smaller species? And Learn more gradually? Ofc I have been reading every parrot book and article that I could get my hands on and also worked with some birds at work and some pet stores as a volunteer. Getting bit a few times at work, it really hurts lol

I think, as others said, you should get the bird you want from the get go. Just make sure you have a good understanding of what the care of the bird entails. (And obviously the bigger the bird, the worse the possible bite.)

 

[sunnysmom]

Thanks for the advice. I understand that everyone here speaks for the well being of the birds as the top priority and this is why I came here in the first place. Last year my 17 yrs old iguana died and my 9 yrs old cat too. If I wasn’t living with 3 rescue dogs I would be completely devastated. Now the dogs are returned to the organization they belonged to and I am here to build a flock cuz I am used to live with multiple animals. Parrots are not predators so any cat or dog is out of question I think. What do u suggest? U think it is time for me to retire? I am only 35, lol. And if there is ways to build a flock around me I am open to any suggestions.

I think if you're looking to have multiple birds out together, the safest thing is to have the same species or at least the same sized birds. Mixing big and little can be a recipe for disaster. I don't let my cockatoo out with my cockatiels....

 

[Maso0od]

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll respond as if you weren't...

If you want a flock that will be able to interact with each other and come out at the same time, then I advise you to pick one type of parrot and stick to it. @webchirp has a group of smaller pyrrhura conures, @expressmailtome @Macawnutz and @aooratrix have groups of macaws, many people here have flocks of tiels or budgies. Be prepared for them not to get on and have a plan for what you'll do if that happens. For example, you may need to form two flocks and let them have separate out of cage time. You will obviously have to have enough space to be able to achieve this.

Trying to keep, for example, a parrotlet, a conure, an amazon and a macaw happy in one home is going to be intensely difficult. They will need separate out of cage time - let's say 3-4 hours a day for each species - so it would be a full time job just rotating round them. All of them will want your attention. You may encounter jealousy. You may have to deal with them winding each other up by landing on each other's cage, leading to bitten toes and other injuries. They will be able to call to each other, but they won't be able to share cages, preen each other, sleep next to each other or other flock activities.

I really encourage you to really think about which species draws you and which best fit the space and time that you have available.

tnx
Idk if this is the case but jealousy is something that I need to be prepared for in any kinda birds bonded with me, or am I wrong? For instance 2 separate gcc.
My space would let me place about 4-6 large cages to house a large one like a cockatoo but I want to know every bird who comes very closely and make a true bond so I would be able to tell if sth is wrong with them asap. Pionus as your firld of expertise is a very charming genus but I think I need a bird somehow more expressive and interactive. (the description I have in mind is based on some forum threads and a few books)

I think my english is not so good as I am not a native speaker but I can assure u that I intend no joke on anyone.

thanks anyway

 

[Maso0od]

I think, as others said, you should get the bird you want from the get go. Just make sure you have a good understanding of what the care of the bird entails. (And obviously the bigger the bird, the worse the possible bite.)

To answer the question of my dream bird I should say I am not crazy for macaws or cockatoos specifically but I can see the same passion in me for all them psittaciformes. (that adds to the problem lol)
Actually bite could be the very last concern as I am being bitten constantly by bad behaved dogs and cats and I almost never get angry for that. The hardest part of decision for me is how to increase my chances of having a good relationship with a bird (or possibly a flock) that is not low maintenance or easy to read? in my job I see a lot of failures regarding buying dogs and cats and finally rehoming them simply because someone didn’t want to do any researches before choosing a dog breed or any other pets. I am asking my questions insatiably to prevent this from happening to me and some poor birds.
I am here to seek advice and I am ready to take any actions that are necessary to improve the life of a bird and also mine as the care.
Btw I got all the rooms already bird proofed and all the cables are covered with 2 layers and unbreakable even for a green wing macaw.

 

[tka]

Most birds are intensely monogamous. If they think you are their mate, they will not appreciate you showing attention to another bird - or to another human for that matter. This can be alleviated somewhat by encouraging a friendship bond between you and the bird or by keeping two of the same species that are either a pair or good friends.

If you want to keep a cockatoo, a grey or a cockatiel, you should not keep New World species like macaws, amazons and conures. The feather dust produced by cockatoos, greys and cockatiels is very fine and will damage the respiratory system of New World species. You basically need to decide which one you're interested now and commit to it.

How large is large? I have an 100x80cm/40x30" cage and that's for a small-medium sized bird. Amazons, large cockatoos and macaws need much more space than that.

Basically, you need to have some kind of plan. You need to think carefully about which species you're interested in and can accommodate at this stage, then work towards obtaining, integrating and maintaining a happy flock.

 

[Maso0od]

Most birds are intensely monogamous. If they think you are their mate, they will not appreciate you showing attention to another bird - or to another human for that matter. This can be alleviated somewhat by encouraging a friendship bond between you and the bird or by keeping two of the same species that are either a pair or good friends.

If you want to keep a cockatoo, a grey or a cockatiel, you should not keep New World species like macaws, amazons and conures. The feather dust produced by cockatoos, greys and cockatiels is very fine and will damage the respiratory system of New World species. You basically need to decide which one you're interested now and commit to it.

How large is large? I have an 100x80cm/40x30" cage and that's for a small-medium sized bird. Amazons, large cockatoos and macaws need much more space than that.

Basically, you need to have some kind of plan. You need to think carefully about which species you're interested in and can accommodate at this stage, then work towards obtaining, integrating and maintaining a happy flock.

thank u. So I have been told about the dust issue and if I want a macaw it is also actually a goodbye to cockatoos, right?
considering that medium sized parrots are more diverse in new world compared to australia Ithink I’d better go for them.
the cage size that I wasn’t ordering was 170*75*75 cm. Someone here gave me an article and I figures it’s very small for let’s say an alexandrine so I have to go with larger size cages like the 170 tall and 120 in depth and width.I have to consider sth else too. If the birds won’t get along out of cage, then they have to have a cage that could accommodate and entertain them when they need to be inside of it, plus having enough distance not to stress any of them. Calculating this way, I only have enough room for 4 cages with enough distance and still be in a moderate busy part of home to not feel neglected or bored.
Now am I getting somewhere? Or is there something else I still can not see? Tell me what u think. I still prefer to be disappointed rather than having myself and a bird feel miserable.

 

[Maso0od]

And if jealousy is that hard, isn’t the idea of getting the second bird just somehow cruel? How do experts handle such thing? Dogs and cats never get enough attention, no matter how much u spend, they sometimes won’t let the other one take the spotlight for quite a while.

 

[Meerkat07]

Sorry idk why I hadn’t seen your post yet.
Pionus are very inscrutable to me lol. I am yet to see what they have to offer. Senegals and gcc’s that I have met were all very friendly but I know they won’t always be.
I have managed to keep the dogs away from the rooms that parrots would be kept. Should I still be concerned?

Yes its important to be very careful with birds and dogs and make sure they can escape from situations (AKA don't clip they're wings if you were thinking about that) and the birds can fly around when the dogs aren't there, but they can live together.

 

[Meerkat07]

Sorry idk why I hadn’t seen your post yet.
Pionus are very inscrutable to me lol.

That so surprising all the Pi onus's ive met are soo sweet, just because one bird wasn't a certain way you don't have to veto the entire species. They're all individuals and I like that most Pi onus's ive met don't break off ears and you said your neighbors won't care but I feel like YOU will end up caring, maybe not now but in 10-20 maybe birds live a while and you have to make sure you can commit. I also like Quakers but their cage aggression can be a bit annoying so if you can deal with that they're a good cuddly sweet bird. I don't know much about Meyer's except they're a lot like Senegal's since there from the same family but they seem good too a bit hard to find one though.

 

[Meerkat07]

And if jealousy is that hard, isn’t the idea of getting the second bird just somehow cruel? How do experts handle such thing? Dogs and cats never get enough attention, no matter how much u spend, they sometimes won’t let the other one take the spotlight for quite a while.

If your bird is incredibly attached then yes it cruel however a lot of time the bird is bored when you leave and wants a friend. Its also an issue for your bird to be that attached to you. Thats why parrot owners end up with a parrot who outlived them and all these parrots end up plucked depressed and in shelters.

 

[Zara]

just because one bird wasn't a certain way you don't have to veto the entire species.

I also like Quakers but their cage aggression can be a bit annoying so if you can deal with that they're a good cuddly sweet bird

 

[tka]

I gave you this link before: Wingspan Info | Natural Inspirations Parrot cages
The cages sizes are given in inches but you can easily convert them. If you're looking at the larger species of Amazon, you need a cage at least 120x90cm. That's a minimum. Amazons will use all the space they get so will really appreciate having space to play and swing on toys.

If they don't get on then yes, you will need separate cages for them and they will need to be out of the cage separately. It can be very stressful on a human trying to manage time out of cages, attention, jealousy and so on. Many birds will happily take as much attention as you're willing to give.

If the birds like each other, then living as a pair is wonderful. They will often not need a human as much because they have each other. You can still be friends with them, it's just a different sort of friendship.

Edited to add that yes, the feather dust means that you shouldn't keep a cockatoo and a macaw together.

 

[BirdWorld]

I really like them and was considering even lovebirds or parrotlets. (I know this adds a lot to the equation but can’t help it)
To be completely clear I must say that my goal is gaining the handle of a small species and go for a larger one if I think I can handle more. Maybe a gcc or a Poi would be the second one. What do u think?

Parrotlets are a little smaller that budgies, and lovebirds a little bigger. English budgies are quite bigger than regular budgies, so if you want a bigger bird and a budgie those may work for you.
I agree with @tka that if you want a bigger bird to begin with, get a bigger bird. Budgies are often thought of as starter birds because they are little and relatively easy to take care of, but they live a long time (10-20 years), and obviously nobody wants to spend 20 years of their life with a bird they didn’t want to begin with. Again, if your intention isn’t to get a so called “starter bird”, but you actually want two different bird species, then I say go for a green cheek. GCCs aren’t all that big anyways.
It still isn’t safe to let them out with budgies though.

 

[Zara]

I really like them and was considering even lovebirds or parrotlets. (I know this adds a lot to the equation but can’t help it)
To be completely clear I must say that my goal is gaining the handle of a small species and go for a larger one if I think I can handle more. Maybe a gcc or a Poi would be the second one. What do u think?

if you are wanting a GCC, then I would go for that first. They are not too much bigger than a lovebird.
They are popular amongst new bird owners.

But again, if there is a bird that you think is a better fit for you, no matter what that species is, then go for it. Some people get macaws or ever cockatoos as first birds because that is the bird they wanted and thought was a good fit for them.

 

[fluffypoptarts]

And if jealousy is that hard, isn’t the idea of getting the second bird just somehow cruel? How do experts handle such thing? Dogs and cats never get enough attention, no matter how much u spend, they sometimes won’t let the other one take the spotlight for quite a while.

Mine can come out in groups of 2 or 3, and by the end of the day everyone is beak-grinding happily. Would each one rather have 100% of my time? Sure, but then 7 other birds might still be bouncing from home to home (probably best case scenario), suffering in neglect, or even be dead. Eventually when some of these guys pass on, I’ll keep the household number to no more than 4 birds because 8 is very challenging.

 

[Maso0od]

That so surprising all the Pi onus's ive met are soo sweet, just because one bird wasn't a certain way you don't have to veto the entire species. They're all individuals and I like that most Pi onus's ive met don't break off ears and you said your neighbors won't care but I feel like YOU will end up caring, maybe not now but in 10-20 maybe birds live a while and you have to make sure you can commit. I also like Quakers but their cage aggression can be a bit annoying so if you can deal with that they're a good cuddly sweet bird. I don't know much about Meyer's except they're a lot like Senegal's since there from the same family but they seem good too a bit hard to find one though.

I don’t know if I was right when I read Poi (stands for poicephalus) so I think it led to a misunderstanding of Pionus/Poicephalus lol

Here I have no neighbors in 3-4 block around the place so the noise could only be a problem to my own ears (and no one else) and I have read and tried some ways to curve such behaviour and tbh I am not sure that I can utilize it on a very stubborn bird like a Caique or a cockatoo. Anyway I have to think about when an emergency situation arises and someone else needs to take care of the bird if I am sick or out for any reason for the next 20-30 yrs. Quakers are charming and I really like them. I also heard they are mostly less active than an average gcc, right?

 

[Maso0od]

I gave you this link before: Wingspan Info | Natural Inspirations Parrot cages
The cages sizes are given in inches but you can easily convert them. If you're looking at the larger species of Amazon, you need a cage at least 120x90cm. That's a minimum. Amazons will use all the space they get so will really appreciate having space to play and swing on toys.

If they don't get on then yes, you will need separate cages for them and they will need to be out of the cage separately. It can be very stressful on a human trying to manage time out of cages, attention, jealousy and so on. Many birds will happily take as much attention as you're willing to give.

If the birds like each other, then living as a pair is wonderful. They will often not need a human as much because they have each other. You can still be friends with them, it's just a different sort of friendship.

Edited to add that yes, the feather dust means that you shouldn't keep a cockatoo and a macaw together.

Oh man, now I think the idea of a flock is not always practical. I assume the very first bird that I would keep will determine if I am able to add any other or not, did I get it right? I don’t wanna be split between numerous birds for attention. They are not disciplined like dogs and they tend to control some aspects of our friendship unlike dogs that accept me as their master.
Birds really have complex behavioral patterns.