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Troubleshooting Odd Behavior with 1st Batch of Eggs

Questa

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Hi folks,

This is my first post on here, I need some info that I can't find online. I've never had birds before, so bear with me. My relatively new budgies (the hen is over a year old and the male just recently became an adult as far as I can tell from his eyes) just lay 4 eggs in their nesting box. My questions are:

  1. The male keeps going into the nesting box and fighting with the hen. I saw him biting her, and he seems to be kicking her out of the nest box before she jumps back into the fray to continue the fight. I had to separate them by putting him in another cage overnight because I was worried they'd hurt each other and because the eggs were being trampled and flung around underfoot. They seem to be fine now, but this isn't the first time I've had to separate them after the eggs were laid. Is what I'm doing right or should I leave them be? The first time they fought, the male bled from his head. And might they hard the eggs by mistake if I leave them at it?
  2. Whenever the female comes out to eat (which is rarely these days), the male starts and continues to screech until she goes back into the nesting box. Is this normal? If yes, what's the explanation behind the behavior?
  3. Today I noticed that when the hen came out to eat, she had one of the eggs wedged between her legs and was flying around with it. Is this normal?
  4. I haven't checked yet whether all four eggs were fertilized. The hen has been in the nesting box almost constantly, and when she comes out and sees me approaching, she immediately jumps back in. I've been avoiding opening the nesting box while she's in it because she's not tame yet and I don't want to stress her out of make her feel unsafe in there. Does it matter whether I check fertilization?
Thanks in advance!
 

Questa

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Alright, this is even odder. That egg I thought the hen was carrying between her legs? It looks like it's stuck to the feathers of her chest. Could it have a crack in it and it somehow dried into her feathers? What should I do? :wideyed:
 

PoukieBear

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I’m sorry you are having so much trouble with your pair.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but by the sounds of it, you are completely unprepared and not knowledgeable enough to be allowing your birds to breed. As you e said yourself, you are new to owning birds, and you should be taking this time to learn all you can about their basic care, and not worrying about breeding them.
 

PoukieBear

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Ooops, I hit submit too fast without actually answering your questions.

1) If the pair is fighting, then they do need to be separated for their own safety. You said that the male has actually been injured and bleeding, and for such a small bird, even a little bit of blood can be a death sentence.

2). A screeching male is not normal. He’s stressed out, and likely screeching because the hen keeps attacking him. Screeching is budgie speak for “p*ss off, leave me alone!”

3) Having a broken egg stuck to her is NOT normal.

4) Checking to see if the eggs are fertile technically isn’t needed, but it’s always nice to know.
And since you are having so many issues, you should probably candle them. If they are infertile, throw them out, take away that nest box, separate the birds, and spend your time trying to bond with them.
 

Questa

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I’m sorry you are having so much trouble with your pair.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but by the sounds of it, you are completely unprepared and not knowledgeable enough to be allowing your birds to breed. As you e said yourself, you are new to owning birds, and you should be taking this time to learn all you can about their basic care, and not worrying about breeding them.
I completely agree, I'm in over my head. I hadn't expected them to breed at all. I've had them for around 3 months now and recently moved them to a larger cage so they can fly comfortably and stretch their wings. I'm guessing that might have been why they started breeding? They've always had the nesting box, which is something that the bird shop recommended I include. I plan on doing everything I can to discourage breeding moving forward, but for now I just want to make sure that both the pair and their eggs end up OK. Any help would be highly appreciated, as online articles just seem to repeat each other and don't cover any of the issues I'm facing.
 

Questa

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Ooops, I hit submit too fast without actually answering your questions.

1) If the pair is fighting, then they do need to be separated for their own safety. You said that the male has actually been injured and bleeding, and for such a small bird, even a little bit of blood can be a death sentence.

2). A screeching male is not normal. He’s stressed out, and likely screeching because the hen keeps attacking him. Screeching is budgie speak for “p*ss off, leave me alone!”

3) Having a broken egg stuck to her is NOT normal.

4) Checking to see if the eggs are fertile technically isn’t needed, but it’s always nice to know.
And since you are having so many issues, you should probably candle them. If they are infertile, throw them out, take away that nest box, separate the birds, and spend your time trying to bond with them.
  1. Alright, I have a medium sized cage that I'll set up now for the male and keep him there for a while. Luckily, the bleeding stopped soon after the injury and he's been fine and active ever since.
  2. Buh, good to know.
  3. What can I do to help get it off her? Should I attempt handling her and maybe soaking the area in warm water until it comes off, or would that be too stressful for her? Remember, I haven't bonded with her yet.
  4. I'll do that once the situation has calmed a bit and both birds (and I) aren't freaking out!
Thank you so, so much for the advice!
 

PoukieBear

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Rule #1. When a pet store employee give you advise, do the exact opposite of what they recommend. Lol, they are seriously under educated and are just there to make a sale. Unfortunately, they know a little less than nothing about bird husbandry.

This time of year is when birds naturally go into breeding condition. The longer dalight hours triggers hormones, so it’s likely not the larger cage that prompted them to start breeding.

I feel like I’m post bombing you, but I need to move to my computer for my next post. (Copy paste, gotta find it though)
 

PoukieBear

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How to prevent breeding and egg laying.



1) Reduce Daylight Hours.
Cover the cage so your bird(s) only gets 8 hours of daylight per day.
Why? Budgies naturally breed in the summertime when days are longer. This allows them more time to forage for food to feed their growing clutch of chicks. By reducing daylight hours, you will also reduce hormones that trigger a bird wanting to breed.

2) Do not Overfeed.
Do not completely fill up your bird(s) food dish, or feed high fat/high protein foods.
Why? Budgies naturally breed when food is plentiful and easy to find. Budgies only need 1.5 teaspoons of seed per day. The rest of their diet should be vegetables and pellets.

3) Re-arrange the cage frequently.
Move perches, rotate toys, rearrange ladders and swings, move food and water dishes. You can even move the entire cage to a new location in your house if you have the space to do so.
Why? Budgies will only want to breed when they feel safe and comfortable and have a stable environment. By changing things up frequently, you can reduce the chances of breeding behaviour.

4) Remove any potential nesting spots.
Make sure there are no nest box, coconut shells, happy huts, grass baskets, pottery bowls, or anything else that is not meant for a budgie’s cage that could be mistaken for a nesting spot.
Why? Budgies can be opportunistic breeders and may use items that you think are unlikely nesting spots.

5) Do not stroke or pet your budgie’s back, wings, rump.
If you want to touch your budgie, give it some loving scritches at the head and neck area. You need to avoid stroking your budgie’s back.
Why? Stroking a budgie’s back is like molesting your bird. It’s part of the mating process and should be avoided at all costs.

6) Separate Male and Female birds.
Place your male and female birds in their own respective cages, or use a cage divider to separate them.
Why? If they can’t mate, they can’t breed.
 

PoukieBear

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  1. What can I do to help get it off her? Should I attempt handling her and maybe soaking the area in warm water until it comes off, or would that be too stressful for her? Remember, I haven't bonded with her yet.
  2. I'll do that once the situation has calmed a bit and both birds (and I) aren't freaking out!
Thank you so, so much for the advice!
If she hasn't preened the egg off on her own, you will likely need to mist her with a spray bottle and some warm water. That will help loosen up the egg and it should fall off.

The sooner you can candle the eggs, the better. If you open the nest box, she should leave and give you a few minutes to do what you need to do.
In all honesty though, I still believe you should remove the eggs no matter what. Since you have to separate them, and this is her first (and hopefully only) clutch, it's going to be hard work for her to raise any chicks on her own.
 

PoukieBear

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I've posted this before, but it's worth posting again.

There is a LOT that goes into breeding Budgies, and you need to do your research before you even begin to think about breeding them. Just because they are small and sometimes inexpensive, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the same attention, dedication, and hard work that it takes to breed show dogs, rare cats, or even prized race horses.

Here is a list of things you need to think of before you even CONSIDER breeding.

1). Are your birds proper breeding age? (Older than 1 year, but younger than 4 years old.)
- Breeding birds that are not the appropriate age will lead to issues/death of your birds and/or chicks.

2). Has each bird been vet checked and given a FULL bill of clean health?
- It is extremely important to only breed strong and healthy birds with no health issues that can be passed down to the chicks.

3). Are your birds on a good healthy diet? One that consists of pellets, seeds, fresh veggies, fruit, fresh sprouts, high calcium and protein?
- It’s important to have your birds eating a good diet BEFORE breeding. This will help keep their weight and energy up during the breeding process, and these good eating habits will be passed down to their chicks.

4). Do you have a proper breeding cage?
- A breeding cage needs to have enough space, natural perches, and a side door to attach a nest box on the OUTSIDE of the cage.

5). Do you have a proper nest box?
- A nest box needs to be mounted on the outside of the cage, it needs a concave bottom, and it needs to have easy access to be cleaned out DAILY.

6). Do you have proper nesting material?
- Pine or aspen wood shavings are proper nesting materials and they help keep the nest dry and clean. Wood shavings need to be replaced every day to help keep the nest sanitary for the chicks.

7). Do you recognize the signs of egg binding?
- Egg binding is a serious concern for a hen. It is an emergency situation and needs vet care immediately. It is a terrible and painful way for a hen to die.

8). Do you have an avian vet nearby in case of egg binding or complications with the chicks?
- Knowing where your avian vet is located is very important before breeding. You don’t want to be frantically searching for one if you are in the middle of an emergency with your birds.

9). If the hen rejects her chicks, do you have the ability to take time off work/school/extracurricular activities/social events?
- Chicks will need to be fed every 2-3 hours until they are weaned. This can take 4-6 WEEKS! You can not skip feedings, you can not delay feedings, you can not forget feedings. Your chicks lives are entirely depending on you, so you must be willing to put your own life on hold until they are grown.

10). Do you have someone (preferably a vet) to teach you how to hand feed if the parents reject the chicks?
-This is very delicate work and a chick can easily aspirate and die if you don’t know what you are doing.

11). Do you have a place to set up a brood box or an incubator if you have to take the young from the parents?
-
Young chicks need a safe, warm, dry and clean brood box.

12). Do you have emergency hand feeding supplies?
- Incubator, high quality formula, syringes, spoons, thermometer, digital scale, ect.

13). Do you have the expendable income to afford supplies?
- If you can’t afford to purchase these items BEFORE breeding, then don’t breed!

14). If you’re a minor, do you have a support system behind you that is willing to pay for the cost of breeding supplies, vet visits, emergency supplies?
- Parents must be willing to help pay for anything that your breeding birds may need. If you’re parents are not willing to pay, then don’t breed!

15). If the hen starts to attack her chicks (this happens more often than you think) do you have a separate cage for her?
- If a hen wants to start a new clutch while she still has chicks in the nest, she will start to attack them and will need to be removed from the breeding cage before she kills them.

16). Do you have a large weaning cage for the chicks when they start exploring outside the nest box?
- Chicks will need to have a large cage with lots of natural perches, toys, foraging toys, and a wide variety of foods to try. This is an important time in a chick’s life where they learn how to be a budgie. They learn how to perch, fly, forage, acrobatics, ect.

17). Do you have homes lined up for your chicks?
- Depending on your location, it may be difficult to find homes for all your chicks.

18). Do you have space to keep all the chicks in your home?
- If you can’t find homes for your chicks, are you willing to keep them in your own home, in appropriate size cages?

19). If a chick doesn’t work out in its new home, are you willing and able to accept it back into your home?
- Sometimes new owners decide that having a budgie just isn’t for them and may want to return the bird back to the breeder. If you can’t accept the bird back, it will likely end up in a rescue, the SPCA, or even worse.

20). Are you prepared for potential heartbreak?
-Because “shizz happens”, even to the best breeders. You can easily loose the chicks and the parents if you are not prepared for the worst.

If you cannot firmly answer YES to all of these questions... DO NOT BREED YOUR BIRDS!

Budgies are living, breathing and feeling creatures and your inability to provide the best possible environment will harm them and any other birds you bring into the world.
 

Questa

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I feel like I’m post bombing you, but I need to move to my computer for my next post. (Copy paste, gotta find it though)
I'd rather you post bomb me than leave me clueless. Thank you sooo much for all the info! Would it be traumatizing for her if I remove the eggs all of a sudden? I remember reading that a hen might need a replacement to the eggs for a while.
 

PoukieBear

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No, it won’t be traumatic to remove the eggs. She may even be thankful for it, lol.
There is no need to replace budgie eggs with sunny eggs, as this will still cause her to incubate them, which is the exact opposite of what you want right now. Even incubating dud eggs is a lot of work and stress on a hen, and even twice as much without a good mate helping her out.

I’m sorry none of this worked out the way you had imagined it.
 

Questa

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The sooner you can candle the eggs, the better. If you open the nest box, she should leave and give you a few minutes to do what you need to do.
In all honesty though, I still believe you should remove the eggs no matter what. Since you have to separate them, and this is her first (and hopefully only) clutch, it's going to be hard work for her to raise any chicks on her own.
Ok, I've candled the 8 eggs, more than half are fertilized. How do I humanely dispose of fertilized eggs? :(
 

Zara

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What dates were the eggs laid on?
 

Zara

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Which are the infertile ones and which are the fertile ones?
If the mid Feb eggs are the fertile ones then they would be hatching in a few days. Newer fertile eggs will glow red with veins. What were the dates for the newer eggs?
 

Questa

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Which are the infertile ones and which are the fertile ones?
If the mid Feb eggs are the fertile ones then they would be hatching in a few days. Newer fertile eggs will glow red with veins. What were the dates for the newer eggs?
I'm not sure about the age of the fertile eggs. I've removed the infertile ones and left the remaining three eggs that that actually have veins in them in the nesting box, and reattached the nesting box to the cage. The hen just went back in to check on the eggs. Would she be able to take care of three chicks on her own?
 

Questa

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Ok, according to this video, it seems like the most developed egg is around 5 days old, so the first few eggs were probably the infertile ones. Should I still dispose of the fertile eggs or should I let them be and have her take care of the three if they all hatch successfully?
 

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Would she be able to take care of three chicks on her own?
Impossible to know. The odds are stacked against her though unfortunately ( being a first time parent and single).

and have her take care of the three if they all hatch successfully?
Would you be able to do that if she didn´t care for them?
 

Questa

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Impossible to know. The odds are stacked against her though unfortunately ( being a first time parent and single).


Would you be able to do that if she didn´t care for them?
Not sure, I'd make an effort but this is the first time I've had birds at all. Would I be able to just remove the eggs at this stage or should I let them develop and then do my best with trying to take care of them after a lot of research and checking in with pet store bird breeders about best practices?
 
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