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Risk vs Benefit on X-ray for Budgie?

Lady Min

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Hey guys,it's been a long depressing, and at times infuriating whirlwind of trying to get vet help for my budgies.

I've finally found a vet clinic who seem advanced (as can be on this island) and willing enough to help me figure out what's going on with them. They are general vets,but have been vets for years,and I believe the team will be referring to the expertise of one vet who has interests in Avian Medicine. She used to work at the Kennedy Heights Animal and Bird Hospital in Surrey,Canada. The reason I'm going to them is they are the only vets able to do a crop swab/crop wash in my country. However,the primary patients for them here are cats and dogs,with the occasional exotic.

I had been planning to get an X-ray done when I went for my budgies in addition to getting a crop wash/swab done and a fecal wet mount to determine mainly the causes of their coughing fits,detect possible AGY and why Percy's cere has changed to a deep brown from rich blue recently.

I wanted to get the X-ray done is I wanted to see if we could detect any issues with Percy's gonads,given his cere colour change,and why he has been having a tiny fresh blood droppings twice each month,the past 3 months. Also to determine if both budgies have ingested anything they shouldn't have,and to see if we can find an enlarged proventriculus as seen in Avian Gastric Yeast in case the other tests don't work.

Also to see any air sac issues as Percy and Annabeth have had these coughing fits since they were 2 months.

However,the vet warned me of the possible risks.She told me sometimes birds have a heart attack,and pass away when doing an X-ray. I think she mentioned due to stress. Typically,she mentioned that they are anaesthetied with isoflurane and taped down to get the best images.They are using digital radiology and it would take about 10 seconds to get each shot.

But I plan to ask her more of the circumstances,like if they were very sick,not used to being handled,not good with stress,if it was during the anaesthesia,and they couldn't be revived.

I really wanted to get one done for them both,but now I am really afraid of the risks.And budgies weigh so few grams,compared to bigger birds. My birds are both generally hardy,yes they do get scared,but Annabeth has flown away twice and survived the wild.

I'm going to ask if I can do the x-ray without anaesthetic. But I'm not sure if that would be even more risky for them.being conscious and taped down.

The vet said if he did have a testicular tumour,they would probably be able to feel something. But I would like to check for the other things.

I don't know,I'm just quite scared now. I had been so sure about the x-rays after hearing people's experiences,now I'm second guessing. I don't want to do something that would make me lose them,after fighting for them for so long.
 

Ripshod

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Do you have a photo of Percy's cere you can share with us?
How old is he?
Sedation is a worry for any budgie parront, but if an xray is the only route for the vet to diagnose any condition then it is necessary, especially with suspected tumours.
It does sound like the vet has some great experience, and she has the confidence to even offer an xray.
Personally I'd opt for the relatively low risk diagnosis than have a budgie suffer months of illness from an undiagnosed condition.
 

Lady Min

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Yes sure I can share a picture! Percy is blue and yellow,and Annabeth is the white and blue female next to him for comparison.

I am of the same thought,better to know than not.

And I'm glad it's a good sign she's offering to do the x-ray. The clinic overall does seem nice and different,but with so many past bad vet experiences I am so wary.

I know that typically,brown ceres can mean a hormonal imbalance or something as serious as testicular cancer.

Percy's cere is currently a full brown and you can see hints of the blue around his nostril still.

However he shows no signs of slowing down and is active and cheerful.

I'm not sure if a budgie at this stage of cere browning and no visible abdominal bumps could possibly only just begin to form a tumour that could show on x-ray.

He's had this full colour maybe the past 2 months max.
 

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budgieluv3

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Good luck! I hope everything works out well.
 

tka

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Being taped down without being anaethetised would be enormously stressful and could itself cause a heart attack. It would also take more time to get the X-ray if the bird is struggling - you'll get blurred images and it will take longer to get a clear image. I would expect the bird to be under light anaethesia very briefly for an X-ray - certainly not as deeply as they would be for an operation.
 

Lady Jane

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@tka is correct about the processes of sedation and positioning for a budgie. Some vets wont even draw blood from them because of how much stressful events can cause the death of the bird. It is a touch decision for you to make. I would ask the vet how many budgies she has done an x-ray on and how did it go. Are you sure this bird is male? Was it done by DNA? Some budgies that are female can have blue ceres for a while until full maturity.
 

Ripshod

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Was it done by DNA? Some budgies that are female can have blue ceres for a while until full maturity.
My thoughts exactly. Females start with a baby blue cere that turns brown, but it's not as dark and rich as a mature male's blue.
 
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Ripshod

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Further reading, go all the way through because there is some variation in the colouring you'll see from all the pics
If you have a pic of Percy from when he was younger and his cere was blue post it in that thread, we should be able to confirm gender and could save you some money and stress. Even the best vets can make a mistake with a budgies gender.
 
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Mybluebird

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@Lady Min I have heard from a couple male budgie owners that their budgie's cere turned dark brown when they came down with testicular cancer as you mentioned. If he were my budgie, I'd opt for the physical exam first to see if a tumor can be detected. Maybe I missed it, but how old is Percy?
 

Lady Min

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Hi guys,thank you so much for all the detailed responses!

Percy is 100% male for sure :) I'll attach baby pics and his cere colour till July this year. Interestingly enough his cere had a small browning (pic),then went away between July and August. But then it resurged to full blown brown. He is turning 3 years old on November 26th. So that's why I was unsure..

Especially the info from @tka

@Lady Jane
I asked them exactly that earlier and this was their response via message. I basically asked if it was possible to do the x-ray without anaesthetic,how long they would be under for,the type of birds that passed,how sick they were. Not a clear figure on how much budgies done in total.

'1. We can but they need to be completely still. Also, light anesthesia is likely safer then a highly stressful situation. They would need to be in lateral recumbency. We could try without. But may need light anesthesia. It is light anesthesia with isoflurane and oxygen. It would be only for the duration of the xray (short). Inhaled anesthesia dissipates as soon as it is withdrawn. We have not lost a bird in an xray, but just with handling. Yes, they were typically sick. One was an owl and one was a budgie.'

@Mybluebird we'll definitely be getting physicals done on them both
 

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webchirp

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My elderly birds get xrays both with and without anesthesia. Jim, the newer vet tech is fabulous at getting them but I always requested it for Hachi with her arthritis.
 

Lady Jane

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So they are saying one of the birds they lost was a budgie? I wish you and your budgie all the best in the medical testing and pray for no complications.
 

Lady Min

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So they are saying one of the birds they lost was a budgie? I wish you and your budgie all the best in the medical testing and pray for no complications.
Hi,yes @Lady Jane , honestly I was a bit apprehensive as well,but when rereading it,they said they had been quite sickly and had the heart attack due to handling stress,and not under anaesthetic

Thank you for your well wishes :)

I'm not sure if tame budgies used to being handled would be the same. They had a physical exam twice this year and screeched a bit,but appear to tolerate stressful situations well overall.

How do x-ray procedures typically go? Are they put on anaesthetic first then laid down or vice versa?
 

Lady Min

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My elderly birds get xrays both with and without anesthesia. Jim, the newer vet tech is fabulous at getting them but I always requested it for Hachi with her arthritis.
Thank you @webchirp

Why do you do some without anaesthetic?
 

Lady Min

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Hi guys,just to update you all,the x-rays were done,and they're back safe at home!

Will post a more detailed update,but apparently they were so chatty and wriggly and fighting the anaesthesia. The vet told me Percy was fighting it for a good 5 minutes and awake,and when they would try to tape them they would fling it off.

When I get the x-rays will try to share

Thank you guys for your well wishes and prayers.
 
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