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Opinions on BirdTricks?

Shezbug

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From my understanding (from a personal conversation I had with them) it is what Mizzely said plus the fact that birds know how much extra energy they have so if they’ve only got enough to sustain them for flight for a few hours as opposed to having stores of energy readily available they are not likely to want to fly too far away from their guaranteed food source (owners) while free flying. Most of the places they are free flying at have no (or very limited amounts of) water or food available for the birds to access- they need to come back or stay close incase they need a top up of energy or water.
While at home training or just hanging out it makes it easier to keep the birds focussed on the owners and motivated to work or do as asked because they learn that the way to get food is by complying to the wishes of their humans.
 

Monica

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Can someone explain the withholding of food training? I find it hard to believe two highly visible trainers BirdTricks and Parrot Wizard would openly recommend it unless it has some merit, while at the same time it sounds like it can be cruel, but I don't know the details, so not sure how I feel.

Lets put it this way.... Parrot Wizard learned from Bird Tricks.

Bird Tricks "stole" the methods of other trainers and claimed it as their own, lying about the training to hype up their sales. It was all a sales tactic. Add in some copyright infringement to make them appear better... some more crappy sales tactics to hype up their products.... They are sales people, not trainers who have a full understanding of the science of behavior.




In regards to withholding food... they may have killed one of their birds due to this practice...




If done correctly, food management can be a great method to work with birds! You train before meals or you remove the training rewards from their main diet, you change their diet around, etc. You *NEVER* attempt to decrease a bird's weight in order to train them, you simply change a few little things here or there.

Weight management is what they did... and they did it incorrectly. In the terms of falconers, you would train a bird at the bird's *highest* weight, not a lower weight. BT was lowering their birds weights to achieve training.






BT has come a long way from several years ago, and it's clear they enjoy helping people, but IMO, they still have a long way to go!
 

aooratrix

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Promising quick fixes and implying that their way is the only way do not sit well with me. It's a business with aggressive marketing.
 

WindGlider

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Gosh, I love this forum! Thank you all for responding. My Toby loves his pine nuts and I use them as a reward when training. There are times when he is not in the mood, so no pine nuts, but he ALWAYS has kibble and fresh fruit and veggies.
 

Leih

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Gosh, I love this forum! Thank you all for responding. My Toby loves his pine nuts and I use them as a reward when training. There are times when he is not in the mood, so no pine nuts, but he ALWAYS has kibble and fresh fruit and veggies.
And I think most bird owners would agree that not only are we training to curb what are for us bad habits, but the training in itself is an excellent enrichment tool that gets you the human and the bird communicating and learning about each other. Once they realize what is going on and if it's fun and rewarding for them, they should want to train, of course they aren't always in the mood, and neither are we. My birds love it, they get excited when they see the. target! I don't follow either PW or BT anymore, I get much better advice for free on here!
 

WindGlider

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And I think most bird owners would agree that not only are we training to curb what are for us bad habits, but the training in itself is an excellent enrichment tool that gets you the human and the bird communicating and learning about each other. Once they realize what is going on and if it's fun and rewarding for them, they should want to train, of course they aren't always in the mood, and neither are we. My birds love it, they get excited when they see the. target! I don't follow either PW or BT anymore, I get much better advice for free on here!
Absolutely agree! There are times he is stretching towards me, so exciting, can't wait to start. Then when he's done, he's done. ☺
 

Faun

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I don't care for her personality there was a video done with Marlene Mc'Cohen and appeared to be passive agressively dissing Marlene. I can't remember if she said anything specific but it was just uncomfortable and definitely didn't like the vibe. Something about them feels fake or superficial or as someone else said commercial. I also really really HATE when someone (a trainer of any animal) says "oh I do X Y and Z with my animal but YOU can't and or shouldn't!" The whole point of training is learning and learning should be an option for all that want the knowledge.
 

adamc1303

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All I can say about this thread is Joe Exotic, Carol Baskin! If ya know ya know LOLOLOL
 

clarousel

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Lets put it this way.... Parrot Wizard learned from Bird Tricks.

Bird Tricks "stole" the methods of other trainers and claimed it as their own, lying about the training to hype up their sales. It was all a sales tactic. Add in some copyright infringement to make them appear better... some more crappy sales tactics to hype up their products.... They are sales people, not trainers who have a full understanding of the science of behavior.




In regards to withholding food... they may have killed one of their birds due to this practice...




If done correctly, food management can be a great method to work with birds! You train before meals or you remove the training rewards from their main diet, you change their diet around, etc. You *NEVER* attempt to decrease a bird's weight in order to train them, you simply change a few little things here or there.

Weight management is what they did... and they did it incorrectly. In the terms of falconers, you would train a bird at the bird's *highest* weight, not a lower weight. BT was lowering their birds weights to achieve training.






BT has come a long way from several years ago, and it's clear they enjoy helping people, but IMO, they still have a long way to go!
Slightly disturbed after reading this!

To be honest, I was inspired and encouraged after watching a few of their training videos. I think it was mostly seeing the patience (their videos are so long) and behaviour around the birds? This was when I first got Preeno and was researching on training him. I did find it strange how expensive their stuff was and how they withheld some information because you have to purchase it first, especially when their kid got a budgie and they released a total budgie handbook or something!

I still can't wrap my head around how their training course is $6000 for 3 months...

I guess with everything on the internet, you should sift and glean wisely.
 

MrEggJnr

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Ohh I've recently started watching their video's. Reading all these replies for as far back as 2018 has shed some light on them. Odd how I stumbled on this post xD

I must ask though, Are they reliable with some of their info? or should I rather look for some other source on how to train my budgies ( I feel like some of their vids might help with my budgies) as I've only just got Kumo and Yuki?
 

clarousel

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Ohh I've recently started watching their video's. Reading all these replies for as far back as 2018 has shed some light on them. Odd how I stumbled on this post xD

I must ask though, Are they reliable with some of their info? or should I rather look for some other source on how to train my budgies ( I feel like some of their vids might help with my budgies) as I've only just got Kumo and Yuki?
The only thing I took away from the videos was the target training - how to hold the stick, the distance of it from the bird, when to reward etc.

Everything else I wanted to train I read up online!
 

MrEggJnr

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The only thing I took away from the videos was the target training - how to hold the stick, the distance of it from the bird, when to reward etc.

Everything else I wanted to train I read up online!
Ah ok :) I'll keep looking then. Thus far they have been ok with me hand taming them tho Kumo does like to bite.
 

clarousel

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Ah ok :) I'll keep looking then. Thus far they have been ok with me hand taming them tho Kumo does like to bite.
Oh I forgot to mention, you can get loads of information here too! :)

Targeting is a good place to start and they don't need to be hand tamed. It's super useful and easy to do! From there you can go on to teach your bird other tricks or commands.
 

MrEggJnr

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Oh I forgot to mention, you can get loads of information here too! :)

Targeting is a good place to start and they don't need to be hand tamed. It's super useful and easy to do! From there you can go on to teach your bird other tricks or commands.
Will do as much reading and watch as I can then. For now I will stick too just Hand feeding and the ''leave the hand in the cage for so and so long'' thing till I feel like they trust my hand enough before going on to newer things.
 

Monica

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Will do as much reading and watch as I can then. For now I will stick too just Hand feeding and the ''leave the hand in the cage for so and so long'' thing till I feel like they trust my hand enough before going on to newer things.
If your budgies aren't comfortable with your hand in the cage, please do not leave you hand there! It's best to pair yourself with good things... such as food or treats! Any time you walk by, you could drop a piece of millet into their cage that they don't get regularly... or feeding through the bars of the cage. If they are comfortable enough, you can feed millet while your hand is inside the cage.

Target training can begin with bird *IN* the cage and you on the outside, door shut! Training *DOES NOT* need to be away from the cage! :) (it's a common misconception!)


It's better to work with the bird where they feel the most comfortable and at ease, rather than where they may be terrified and afraid. It makes it easier for them to focus on you, rather than their surroundings and trying to get to safety.
 

tka

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Will do as much reading and watch as I can then. For now I will stick too just Hand feeding and the ''leave the hand in the cage for so and so long'' thing till I feel like they trust my hand enough before going on to newer things.
I'm not really keen on the approach of putting one's hand in the cage for the bird to "get used to".

Firstly, we want our birds to see the cage as a place of refuge and safety. The cage is where they can go for some quiet time even if the doors are open, and we know to never use the cage to "punish" a bird. Putting your hand in there - a thing that they find scary - may undermine that feeling of safety.

Secondly, many perfectly friendly, tame parrots are territorial about their cages and don't like humans messing around in them. I know that my girl isn't always keen on me putting my hands in her cage and will let me know!

Things you can do at this stage is just pairing yourself with good things - drop a treat into their bowl every time you pass the cage, sit by them and hang out, talk to them and sing to them. You can have a stash of treats to reward them with if they come close to you.
 

MrEggJnr

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If your budgies aren't comfortable with your hand in the cage, please do not leave you hand there! It's best to pair yourself with good things... such as food or treats! Any time you walk by, you could drop a piece of millet into their cage that they don't get regularly... or feeding through the bars of the cage. If they are comfortable enough, you can feed millet while your hand is inside the cage.

Target training can begin with bird *IN* the cage and you on the outside, door shut! Training *DOES NOT* need to be away from the cage! :) (it's a common misconception!)


It's better to work with the bird where they feel the most comfortable and at ease, rather than where they may be terrified and afraid. It makes it easier for them to focus on you, rather than their surroundings and trying to get to safety.
I'm not really keen on the approach of putting one's hand in the cage for the bird to "get used to".

Firstly, we want our birds to see the cage as a place of refuge and safety. The cage is where they can go for some quiet time even if the doors are open, and we know to never use the cage to "punish" a bird. Putting your hand in there - a thing that they find scary - may undermine that feeling of safety.

Secondly, many perfectly friendly, tame parrots are territorial about their cages and don't like humans messing around in them. I know that my girl isn't always keen on me putting my hands in her cage and will let me know!

Things you can do at this stage is just pairing yourself with good things - drop a treat into their bowl every time you pass the cage, sit by them and hang out, talk to them and sing to them. You can have a stash of treats to reward them with if they come close to you.
good to know! Yuki, the female, does kinda just move away from my hand when its in the cage so I think I will stop doing that then. Kumo is more curious and will nibble or bite my hand even get on it and I take it the biting is a bad sign?
 

Monica

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good to know! Yuki, the female, does kinda just move away from my hand when its in the cage so I think I will stop doing that then. Kumo is more curious and will nibble or bite my hand even get on it and I take it the biting is a bad sign?
It's hard to say if it's "good" or "bad" other than the fact that "allowing" him to bite you is only reinforcing his need to bite... regardless if it's done out of curiosity, fear or aggression. (sounds like probably curiousity)
 
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