"Official" Opie and Oggie Thread

[Dartman]

You just need to keep carefully working with him. Lurch used to do similar, get on me, be all nice then CHIRP! and bite my neck or ear. He lost all shoulder privileges and slowly I tried to figure out what was setting him off. Sometimes it was a hat he didn't like, a new shirt, a coat he hadn't seen etc. He always wanted to land on me and ride into the bathroom when I got home from work and he'd be fine and suddenly same thing a shriek and a bite... Finally I let him ride in with me and carefully watched what he was paying attention to.
He was watching the sink run so I put my arm down on the counter and he ran over to the faucet and started drinking and playing with the water... Once he was done he ran back up my arm a happy camper, After that I would take him in and he'd wait patiently for me to say you want to play in the water and I'd put my arm down and he's drink and play and climb all over the faucet while I did my thing. Then I'd say you done and he'd run back up my arm to my shoulder and ride back out happily, I never got bit in the bathroom again. He wanted something and didn't know the right way to ask me and I didn't have a clue what his problem was so he'd bite like any bird does to another bird is not paying attention.
We reached a understanding with each other and we both got what we wanted, he got to play in the water, and I didn't get the frustration bite anymore. After that it got easier and easier to figure out what he wanted or what his homicidal triggers were and we got to be great friends, though he'd still bite if in a mood which was easy to see from his body language and I'd just leave him alone till it passed.

 

[Elysian]

It hope to work up to letting him sit on my hand eventually, but iits hard to think of a safe way to attempt it.
It would sure be a lot easier to work out if they were "normal" bird bites lol. I could tolerate them and analyze them better.

But whoever called sennies the pitbull of birds was right! I am surprised I ever got him to let go.
It's like someone putting your finger in a vice and trying to force a body piercing with a dull nail at the same time.

 

[Dartman]

It hope to work up to letting him sit on my hand eventually, but iits hard to think of a safe way to attempt it.
It would sure be a lot easier to work out if they were "normal" bird bites lol. I could tolerate them and analyze them better.

But whoever called sennies the pitbull of birds was right! I am surprised I ever got him to let go.
It's like someone putting your finger in a vice and trying to force a body piercing with a dull nail at the same time.

Pionus when really serious do the same thing. They grab on and start grinding like a pit bull, if they're just making a point they do a quick grab and pierce. They will learn about bite pressure once they decide you are trustworthy and a friend. Once Lurch decided I was his buddy he stopped trying to bite as fast and hard as he could because he trusted me and knew I heeded his warnings. They always have a reason for biting but it is for them to know and us to figure out till they decide you have learned your lesson and can be trusted.
My first Maxi I could pick up one handed, flip him upside down, tussle his head and reach into his house, he totally trusted me and I him. If he bit I always knew the reason and he rarely bit as I was his chosen one and best friend.
You'll get there but it's going to take time and work for both of you as you figure each other out and the rules.
It took Lurch 5 years to totally trust me and be happy but he got there and it was worth it. I got bit a lot with out warning at first and we slowly worked on it together.

 

[Elysian]

I think I jinxed myself by mentioning the biting. Just got bit again 3 times in a row I think the total is like 7 bites from Oggie since I brought him home.

I know I need to avoid them so he doesn't get "used" to it, but its apparently really hard to avoid. And they seem to be getting worse.

The first two times he asked to climb on my hand, and I mistakenly trusted him - but after he was on my hand he bit - those were not "clamping" bites as far as I recall. They did damage but he let go. I did not scream but I did say ow, put him down and moved away.
I decided hand perching was not an option for us.

The next two times were when he got on my shoulder because I let my arm get too close to where he was perched. First time he climbed up my arm unexpectedly and perched very nicely on my shoulder, but bit down hard on my finger when I reached to try and offer a scritch. That was the first "clamp down, steadily increase pressure, don't let go" bite.
The second time he got directly on my shoulder from his cage and started biting immediately, no nice moments. I definitely yelled a lot that time - its hard to think when the pain is getting worse by the moment.

I have successfully avoided any bites for weeks until today. I've felt safe offering him treats from my fingers because he has never bitten me at those moments.
Today I carefully moved him from his cage for some play time and scritches and training, everything went well, I moved him back with no issue. Then I offered him a treat for getting back on his cage without complaint.. he lunged over the treat and clamped down on my finger. When I got him off, he twisted and clamped onto another finger. When I got him off that one he got a third finger before I was able to separate from him completely.

What the hell did I do.

 

[Dartman]

Lurch was scared to death and mad at the world when I first got him. When I met him to take him home he let me scratch him and was fine all the way home in his carrier. I put him on Nerds old stand and he was was enjoying another scritch and suddenly he just whipped his head around and tore the skin off the back of my scratching finger and I got away from him while he birdy sweared at me. I decided strangling my new Maxi wasn't a option and realized we weren't going to be best friends right away. I took the long term approach and just sat by him and let him make all the moves and go at his own pace. Every time I pushed him or he got scared I got bit. He slowly got closer and closer to me and would allow scratches and treats till something would trigger him and he'd bite or try to bite. At first he didn't bother with any warning, just straight to as fast and hard as he could bite. After I started respecting his space he started giving warnings again and didn't try as hard. I think he had a bad time after his beloved old man owner went away and he was stuck with the leftover family who didn't like him so he didn't trust them either and would try to bite so they would try to hit him and be mean to him. He decided the only way to protect himself was to bite quickly before he got hit.
He would sometimes scream and duck when I raised my hand Your guy may have similar baggage he's working through and you'll have to be careful and watch his body language and attitude till he realizes you won't hurt him. Lurch was banned from our shoulders because he would do similar, sit nicely then suddenly have a bad thought and bite.
He never fully stopped biting as it was now a feature but he mostly did it when on his cage and he didn't want to to be messed with.
At the end before he escaped he would fly after me like a feathered puppy when I left the room and his eyes were happy around me. I sure miss his grumpy self as I earned everything I got with him and it was worth it to see him happy again.

 

[Elysian]

Thanks for the stories @Dartman they do give me hope
I adore Oggie even though he's destroying my fingers, poor little old man. I wonder if he is having trouble seeing..

It just seems like he really wants to be cuddled, but it's not safe to do so, and I feel so bad for him. I hope I can give him a good cuddle before he leaves this world, being so old already, but failing that.. I hope he at least enjoys the other aspects of his life with us.

I wish I could train myself not to yell when the bites are really bad!

 

[Pat H]

@Elysian -- have you tried the 'fake crying' part? If Ricky would bite a finger [thankfully doesn't happen very often]... I would 'cry', and kiss the finger [or whatever he had bitten]. That seemed to have an effect on him!

I had a female Senegal that would 'fake' bite--- would appear to TERRORIZE my finger [like a dog playing w/ a rag], but not do any damage... If I didn't know any better, I would have been afraid. Had the feeling that if I had reacted like I was afraid, she indeed would bite... I do not have her anymore, so don't know anymore.

 

[Clueless]

Will Oggie step up on a T perch for you?

Secret gets alone time by sitting on my leg.

I use a baby blanket that is made of a safe knit that I put across my lap. It's doubled for MY sake. Then I sit Secret down on my leg. I have a container of food or treats by my side. I treat her a bit and it's for a limited time span. You ALWAYS want to end training in a high note.

When MC was alive, we had our special fresh food time in the evening. They would be out of the cage for a few hours...... then I gave the fresh food and bevause they were hungry, they enjoyed that first.

 

[Elysian]

Oggie is afraid of the t perch unless it's a desperate moment, like he accidentally fluttered to the floor and needs a lift.
I can still move him with a dowel. But that's what I did the other day - moved him with a dowel to the training table, worked on giving treats and de-sensitizing to the t perch, moved him back with the dowel to his cage.. then tried to give him one last treat when he was on his "porch".
I guess I will keep up with all of those precautions but now add not treating with my fingers if he is out

On another note.. Opie just creeped the heck out of us.
His cage is in an alcove where he can see the tv if it is on but we cannot see him from the couch. I told you guys the only sound we have ever heard from him is that soft, quiet, hiccup chirp.
We were just watching a werewolf movie and when people started dying Opie started *cackling* like a loon!

I wish I could have caught it on camera, he stopped as soon as we tried to look.

 

[SumitaSinh]

Oh!!! Amazons are FULL of drama

 

[Elysian]

I TOUCHED OPIE!!
.. sort of. Barely. Brushed the very tipsy tips of his head feathers. Through the cage bars.

But he didn't bite me for it!!

We seem to be so bad at reading each other. Oggie makes it seriously clear that he wants to be touched and held by me, even though he is the one that keeps biting me. I'm not *afraid* of him, I just navigate around his affection and don't hold him.

Opie is not clear to me. I've been watching very closely when my boyfriend pets Opie and I see that Opie lifts his crest feathers and tilts or bows his head.
I do the same motions and I often also get the lifted crest and maybe a tilted head (never bowed) but when I move my finger closer he turns to follow my finger with his beak.
I take that as him not wanting me to pet? And I'm not willing to push it, but I do keep wondering if he's just confused about why I'm hesitant. I don't know if we will ever get past that .. I can take a bite but that would mean I've bruised his trust.

Anyway. I was leaning down to stare at a poop on his cage floor because it was a funny color (I think he's ok, just eating too many red pellets) and he come over to the cage bars and hung off his boing looking at me like wtf are you doing? He doesn't usually come over to me. So I offered a scritch and he lifted his crest and I managed to brush my finger against his feather tips before I got too nervous.
Then I moved my hand away instead of moving in and I lost the moment because he shifted out of reach

 

[camelotshadow]

It hope to work up to letting him sit on my hand eventually, but iits hard to think of a safe way to attempt it.
It would sure be a lot easier to work out if they were "normal" bird bites lol. I could tolerate them and analyze them better.

But whoever called sennies the pitbull of birds was right! I am surprised I ever got him to let go.
It's like someone putting your finger in a vice and trying to force a body piercing with a dull nail at the same time.

That would have been me!. I had a pitbull Meyers...

Warning blood...They shake & dig into the flesh like they are digging to China...They will hang on like a vice. Hard to get them off.

 

[keirieski17]

I'm really rooting for you and Opie and Oggie!!

 

[Elysian]

That would have been me!. I had a pitbull Meyers...

Warning blood...They shake & dig into the flesh like they are digging to China...They will hang on like a vice. Hard to get them off.

Seriously! Like.a.vice!
I really wonder what's going through his head. It clearly isn't "let me warn this lady to back off" as much "let me see if I can REMOVE HER FINGER"

He tore into my cuticle last time. It's almost healed, just a notch there, but that probably means I'm due for another.

 

[zoo mom]

I think you will get there. You are taking your time and going at his pace.

 

[Pat H]

If you could remind me now and then... what kind of bird Opie and Oggie are... my brain has to keep up w/ ALOT of names! [Just now and then would be helpful, at least to me... ]... thx.

 

[SumitaSinh]

If you could remind me now and then... what kind of bird Opie and Oggie are... my brain has to keep up w/ ALOT of names! [Just now and then would be helpful, at least to me... ]... thx.

Oggie is a senegal parrot, and Opie is an Amazon (I think, yellow shoulder).

 

[Elysian]

If you could remind me now and then... what kind of bird Opie and Oggie are... my brain has to keep up w/ ALOT of names! [Just now and then would be helpful, at least to me... ]... thx.

Yup, Oggie is a 27 year old senegal who loves me but goes nuts and tries to sever my fingers if I let him step on me

Opie is a 16 yr old yellow shoulder amazon who doesn't do anything an amazon is supposed to do and fell in love at first sight with my boyfriend and won't let me touch him but doesn't mind begging for my food.

 

[Pat H]

One thing I realized yesterday... my Senegal, Ricky... is about 31 year old... [about 1990 born]. He LOVES cuddling, scratching his numerous head pins... I'd say his 'lovin' requirements are about the same as our Umbrella C. .... HARD TO BELIEVE... but true.

 

[Elysian]

One thing I realized yesterday... my Senegal, Ricky... is about 31 year old... [about 1990 born]. He LOVES cuddling, scratching his numerous head pins... I'd say his 'lovin' requirements are about the same as our Umbrella C. .... HARD TO BELIEVE... but true.

I believe it, Oggie wants to be cuddled so bad. He is obsessed with trying to get me to pick him up
When he sees me near the cage he rushes over, lifting his little foot and going "Og-gee?"
When his cage is open, if he can see me he will try to figure out a way to climb to the floor like he's going to come find me.

He would be everything I ever wanted in a bird.. if I can ever figure out why his loving includes so much tearing of my flesh.