Help me, please, with my feather plucker, self mutilator, scared, and aggressive CH Conure

[Kassiani]

The room was slightly darkened yesterday evening, and it didn’t seem to make any difference to his struggling. I’m probably taking him to the vet this morning to have one of the techs put a new collar on him. The one I bought or another one of theirs.

 

[webchirp]

I firmly believe if there is mutilation going on, there is pain or another issue. I would try gabapentin to see if that helps at all...paroxetine for anxiety perhaps...we are trying tumeric mixed with ashwagandha and devils claw for pain (and celebrex).

Giggie went from plucking to chewing her feet during hormone season. She gets shots every two weeks at this time and Dr. O believes when her ovaries swell that it impedes the blood flow to her legs and makes them feel funny.

Dr. Orosz said a symptom of heart disease is plucking at the chest...had this with Carlton when we stopped his blood pressure meds to see if it could have been something that resolved itself. (One of the few times I wasn't in agreement but we tried it.)

Tuck was a plucker and mutilated once. He didn't mutilate again after we put him on gabapentin but he did pass and was full of gout.

Pea my little foster passed and was also full of gout. She too was a plucker.

Gout is a very sneaky disease that is often missed. It doesn't always present with high uric acid levels so how do you catch it? Sigh...

But this guy def has something going on if he is mutilating.

Hugs and prayers

 

[sunnysmom]

So sorry. Hang in there. I would have been shaking too. I definitely need a toweling 101 course. I'm horrible at it.

 

[Kassiani]

I’m fortunate in that so far, his blood work and x-rays reveal a very healthy bird otherwise. No signs of atherosclerosis, lungs very clear, hear normal size and in good shape. Blood work all well within normal limits.

 

[Kassiani]

For what it's worth, I spoke to my vet a few moments ago. He called me because I asked him about any pain Opie may be having in an email. He stated that his joints do not have heat or hard knot swelling associated with gout and his Uric Acid levels were normal. He said that his x-rays and blood work do not indicate any form of heart disease or bone disease. The location where Opie picks at his chest is merely the first location his beak comes to when he lowers his head. It is a picking spot of convenience.

What started him on the path of his plucking his feathers? We'll never know. But he doesn't have a follicle left on his skin of the trunk. He is as smooth as a baby's little bottom. This behavior is entrenched in his mind now. He is hormonal at the moment, so two separate Avian Vets believe that he is being triggered into this picking behavior because of that.

He currently gets 14 hours of dark time each night, and I'm doing everything I can to engage his brain, get him to run around his cage or on top of it, and wear himself out so that he doesn't think about picking or plucking. And, I'm proud to say that he has begun to eat the sprouted seed and legume mix I feed him in the mornings!

Yes, I'm exhausted and have a raging headache, and my granddaughter was in the hospital this week (non-covid related). And I have to run into my office for a little bit this afternoon. Hopefully I'll find Opie in one piece when I return!

 

[webchirp]

There are types of gout...the ones that Pea and Tuck had only showed lining their organs and no joints. I should have paid more attention but I was a wee bit traumatized at those times.

 

[Hankmacaw]

I don't remember how old Opie is but most birds past middle age have atherosclerosis. Many times plucking /self mutilation are caused by displace pain (yes atherosclerosis can cause pain) and birds pluck due to that. That is one of the reasons I have Kitty on Gabapentin she has significant atherosclerosis.

 

[Kassiani]

Opie has been plucking all of his adult life, so I have no way of knowing what caused it, but the vet for the rescue believes it was dietary. I have not been told if he ever self-mutilated prior to this. The worker at the rescue even believed that the wound on his chest was from a toy, but I doubt that. The feather plucking is unlikely to be from the development of gout or atherosclerosis, since it is unlikely he would have developed either of these at 1 year of age. He is currently 21 yo.

There are types of gout

Yes, visceral and articular. Visceral the type in which deposits are found on the internal organs. Some lizards even have these deposits on their tongues. From what I've read, it simply does not present clinically in birds. Endoscopy seems to be the only way to definitively diagnose it. It may not always reveal itself with high uric acid levels, but it frequently does--according to the papers I have just been reading. I'm not sure I'm willing to put Opie through another trip to the vet and anesthesia for an endoscopic procedure at this time.

Also, I'm reading that the treatment for gout is dietary primarily? Reduce the protein and watch for sources of excess calcium in the absence of phosphorous. I believe this would be true for both visceral and articular gout. Although I was told he "loves" chop, he hasn't eaten mine yet. However, he is at least eating the sprouted seed and legume mix. I'm working on it. I would love to get him on a better seed mix!

Many times plucking /self mutilation are caused by displace pain (yes atherosclerosis can cause pain) and birds pluck due to that.

Yes, I agree. And yes, I know that atherosclerosis can cause pain. Diagnosing atherosclerosis in a living bird is extremely difficult, from what I have been reading. The research I'm reading indicates that Cockatiels, African Greys, and Amazons are most prone to the disease while Macaws and Cockatoos are less prone. And these birds present with high lipid panel readings as well. And it seems that research suggests females are more prone than males to the disease. Barring the most common clinical symptom, which is sudden death, things like fatigue upon exertion, general lethargy, labored breathing, and lack of muscle coordination are common symptoms. Large plaques can be seen in common radiographs, but more subtle lesions would require CT scans of the major and minor arteries.

https://www.parrotresourcecentre.ca/pdfs/2013_jepm_avian_atherosclerosis_review.pdf

I can ask my vet about a CT scan, but looking at their website, it is a piece of equipment they do not have. Opie has no clinical symptoms, and believe me, I have stressed that bird into exercise plenty over the last couple of weeks. Two vet visits, catching him to bring him home, catching him to replace his collar last night would have caused the labored breathing, etc, if it were going to happen. He is always bright-eyed and alert after these bursts of exercise.

Much research that still needs to be done!

 

[Kassiani]

When we first got home from the vet visit today, he was definitely not speaking to me! But, after some cajoling and a wee bit of crust from my sandwich, he started to warm up! I ran him around the cage with target training, and he had another play top session, too! He was pretty good and tired by the end!

 

[Hankmacaw]

If macaws are less prone to atherosclerosis than other species - then those other species must be 150% susceptible. I personally don't know of one macaw over the age of 17-18 that isn't afflicted to some extent with atherosclerosis and or heart disease. Any bird is at risk with a long term crappy diet and/or no exercise.

Jasper had extremely severe atherosclerosis yet had normal lipids. Dr. took a couple of xrays where we could see the plaque blocked vessels very easily. It can occasionally be seen (actually more than occasionally) on xrays if you know what you are looking for. Kitty's atherosclerosis was diagnosed off of an xray.

It is a very pervasive problem and many of the birds who just drop dead and the owner has no idea why die from atherosclerosis.

 

[Kassiani]

I was just relaying the research article I had been reading. I didn’t mean to offend, and the article also said that age and sex were factors as well. The statistics seems varied between studies reported which seems to be the result of how the study was conducted. Some reported single-digit percent and one reported nearly 92% prevalence. That is a confounding result!

As I said, Opie’s x-rays do not show plaques at this time, and my vet does know what he is looking for. And as I said, I will ask about a CT.

 

[Hankmacaw]

I had no intention of giving you the impression that I was offended. Opie may very well not have atherosclerosis. Displaced pain can be from many causes. One B&G was plucking and barbering and after the owner insisting that the Dr.s keep looking it was found that he had a staph infection in the roots of his feathers. When the infection was cured he no longer plucked. Jasper pulled feathers around her leg and ankle. When we discovered she had arthritis and gave her pain meds she never did it again.

I just have a belief that many of the birds who pluck have a reason other than emotion or psychological and too may owners and Dr.s give up searching too soon. Opie is probably deeply habitual by this time.

 

[Kassiani]

This was an interesting read. It is from an aviary owner who has observed birds both wild caught and commercially raised. The premise is that if stress and anxiety produce feather plucking in birds, then a wild caught bird's feathers should look terrible considering all the stress from being captured and transported overseas. Yet in this author's experience, these birds are not plucking their feathers--they remain intact and beautiful. She hypothesizes that parent-raised birds are taught by their parents how to manage their feathers by grooming the chicks in the nest (positive endorphins for the chicks). Commercially-raised chicks are taken from the nest and have to learn how to manage their feathers on their own. They don't have that positive endorphin association from being groomed by their parents. As they try to manage their feathers on their own, they pull a bit too hard pulling a feather or pin out--causing a bit of pain which also produces endorphins. So they learn to manage their own stressful bored times by producing the endorphins via plucking.

Score one for the parent-raised category!

Unraveling the Truth of Feather Plucking

 

[Hankmacaw]

I have a tendency to believe that theory. Jasper was hand raised (and I mean very hands on) by humans. She had not even seen another parrot until she was given to me. She was a lousy preener, but after watching Hank for awhile, and emulating him, she became an excellent preener. Hank was wild caught and obviously raised by his parents.

 

[Kassiani]

Buddy boy enjoying his breakfast on the balcony!

 

[jzarc17]

View attachment 373181 View attachment 373182
Buddy boy enjoying his breakfast on the balcony!

He’s such a cutie! Love his eyes

 

[Kassiani]

Opie had about 3 hours of out-of-cage time today. He didn't come out of the cage at first, but did after about 30 or 40 minutes and climbed to the play area.

And that's when things did not go well.

Once on top of the cage, he became very aggressive. All I had to do was stand up and walk past the cage, and he would run to the edge of the cage and lunge at me. I hoped he would settle down after he played with his toys and paper for a while, and he did. But at one point he spent close to 5 minutes rubbing is vent on one of his toys. I just ignored him and came and went from the room.

It took a bribe of a piece of banana to get him back into the cage.

I tried to do some target training while he was in the cage and on top of the cage today. While in the cage, he would either bite one of the bars and flutter his wings when I approached or throw a hissy fit at his collar. Either way, he simply was not interested in target training. While on top of the cage, I tried to target train to get his mind off of his hormones and anger. He would just stare at me and squawk, but was also not interested in target training.

I just don't know if I should let him out of his cage while he's this hormonal and cage aggressive, and yet I want him to get used to the house and be comfortable being here.

Ugh!

 

[kehar]

As some of you know, I have adopted a CH Conure who has a history of feather plucking (naked except for wings, tail, and head), and began to injure his own chest about 2.5 weeks before my final adoption. I took him to the vet this past Tuesday, and am waiting the lab results. At that time, the vet placed a soft, petal collar on him to keep him away from his chest. He is hormonal and frequently cage aggressive. He is currently a no-touch bird as in he is not tame to step up or allow me to handle him without toweling.

Since then, he's been so angry at the collar, at how it keeps him from holding food in his foot, keeps him from picking at himself, keeps him from being sure of where he is placing his feet. Trimming the collar might help, but it would probably allow him to get at his chest again.

I have many chewing and shredding toys in his cage. I have tried to begin target training, which went OK yesterday, but not at all today. I play music for him and have tried to spend time in the room with him, but I have to work and have 3 other birds who need my attention, too.

I guess what I'm hoping is that someone can share their experience bringing home a special needs bird and what helped the bird to settle in? We're just not having a good day

Also, for those of you with birds who wear collars, how often do you change and wash them? I'm sure I need to buy several collars.

Please help with any tips you have!!

I would try l-theanine in the water, and coconut oil daily. I have 2 greys that pluck and this has helped somewhat.

 

[tjc]

I’ve been following your saga, and have decided to pass our story to you. Boo is my 14 year old Quaker DNA sexed male. He’s a single bird. When he was around 4-5 years, I noticed a small wound under his right wing. Haldol turned him into a zombie. It healed quickly without anymore consequence. Slowly over the next few years he would get hormonal in the spring and pluck and mutilate under the same right wing. It’s so common with Quakers, there is a name for it, Quaker Mutilation Syndrome. He would wear a collar for a few weeks and it would pass. Then he began barbering all his chest feathers. This was year round. In 2018, he wore a collar for six months. I tried a lower dose of Haldol, Gabapentin, and finally Prozac. Those six months were heartbreaking. He would not play, stayed in his sleep hut constantly, and almost lost his will to live. His labs and tests were always normal.
Prozac works on the brain chemical Serotonin. Same in humans as birds. It helped jar him out of his depression. Since then, I’ve weaned it off, and had to restart it last spring for a short time.
some birds are going to pluck. As long as they are healthy and not mutilating. Sometimes, you end up with a naked bird. Until you can safely keep the collar off, I don’t think you’ll get his real personality.
One tip for placing the ruffled collar on; fasten the collar closed loosely and hold the collar in front of Opie. As he moves forward to get away from you, he will sorta walk into the collar. You can slip his head in the opening while you unfasten the opening and refasten it tighter. It’s very trying with a plucker. If only they could tell us why. People who bite their nails, or pull their hair often don’t know what started it. Ask your vet about Prozac. It may settle him down.

 

[Pat H]

Hang in there @Kassiani. It takes so much time and consistency on your part. I brought home Kitty (GW macaw, 35 yo female) and she is still completely irrational with her responses to me. It's hard for me to get my head around, because she has been a pet bird her entire 35 years, yet she acts like a bird that has been abused the entire time. To complicate matters she has several very serious illnesses that require medications, so she has to be toweled twice a day for those. I have seen a smidgen of improvement, but very little.

Consistent kindness and encouraging talk (even if you are telling him you'd like to wring his neck, do it in a sweet voice and a smile. Many contacts with him throughout the day - talking to him, even if you are calling him an SOB, do it sweetly. Offer treats all through the day. Once in awhile you need to push the envelope just a little bit to find out if you have made progress.

Patience - it is going to be trying - patience.

Wonder if a nebulizer could be used instead of having to towel her to administer the meds?