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Greetings from Texas

gavagai

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Hi all. I have a long history with birds, going back most of my life to around my 11th birthday. I'm going to share my whole horrible history, including the various things horrible things I did in the process of learning to keep birds.

Beginnings
Before I had birds I'd had fish, which I'd bought with my own money. These were goldfish and beta fish which I kept in bowls on the pet store's instructions, and of course they died. I didn't know that the pet store had given me inaccurate information, which meant that I got my first birds at the same pet store.

I got birds because I'd been visiting Parrot Jungle for years, and when they opened a lory-feeding exhibit I fell in love with the lories and wanted to get one (or more). My parents resisted this initially because I couldn't keep my room clean, which made them think I couldn't take care of an animal (despite the fact that I'd followed the pet store's instructions on the fish as long as I had them), but eventually I wore them down. I started by getting books and magazines on parrots, and then persuaded them to let me start with a budgie, a few months before my 11th birthday.

When my parents saw that I could care for a budgie, I persuaded them to get me lovebirds for my 11th birthday. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware at the time that you shouldn't buy lovebirds in pairs and also that non-hand-raised lovebirds don't make good pets, and the local pet store only sold parent-raised birds in pairs. With the first pair I got (every lovebird I've had is peach-faced) one almost immediately killed the other after I took them home, meaning it was the store's one week health guarantee, so I brought them back and got another pair. (The bird who was killed was the sweetest lovebird I ever had, making it very sad.) The next pair one plucked the other, but they seemed to be contented, and the pluck-er lovebird was very friendly.

However shortly after I got the second pair of lovebirds I accidentally killed the budgie (or I'm 95% certain I did, though my brother got two budgies from that same store which didn't live a normal budgie lifespan either). I was devastated over having accidentally killed the budgie (I still hate myself for it), however eventually it more or less faded, and I managed to keep the lovebirds alive for a year.

My Growing Flock
Almost a year after I killed my budgie, my family went camping, and as I was tearing up newspapers for tinder I saw an ad in the classifieds rehoming a Senegal Parrot. I took it as a sign, since I'd wanted a Senegal after reading about them in Bird Talk, and I persuaded my parents to get a Senegal parrot. They agreed to get him but got him as a family bird, since he was friendly with all new people he met. (I thought this was an inherent trait with Senegals based on both the article and what the people giving him up told us about him, but I've seen people here saying they're one-person birds.) Until my parents divorced, my father cared for him, but my father and the Senegal had a falling out which meant that the Senegal came to hate my father. Though he liked everybody else, including strangers, my brother lost interest and my mother never had any, meaning that he gradually became my bird anyways.

The lovebirds made it through their first winter with me providing the a heat blanket, however the next winter the bald lovebird died. It might have been stress, but I read somewhere that parrots need a minimum temperature of 70 degrees (a figure I now know varies considerably with the species), and persuaded my mother to keep the downstairs at 70 in the winter, though she later hedged that to 68. After this, the friendly lovebird suddenly became very hand-shy, and though I spent some time with the Senegal, I wanted more than one bird who would play with me and started trying to persuade my parents to let me get a gold-capped conure.

Finally, at Christmas the following year my parents told me that for my present I could get another bird for $300 or under. By this point I'd realized that that pet shop was not a good place to get birds, but there was a woman who worked there who knew a lot about them, and had been trying to educate the owners and change their practices (even at its worst it was never as bad as a PetCo I one went into, they implemented a lot of her suggestions, and the store now no longer sells birds other than budgies; I think the owner was ignorant rather than greedy), and I asked her if she had advice on where to get a conure.

As it turned out, she'd had an injury and was downsizing her flock, and she was rehoming a sun conure and jenday. I had somehow gotten it into my head that the more colorful a bird is the less affectionate it is (I think reading about several groups of colorful but handshy Australian parakeets had something to do with that) and wanted the jenday, but she persuaded me to get the sun conure, and he was the sweetest bird I've ever had.

Later that year, the psychologist from my elementary school asked me to take her lovebird so she'd be with another lovebird. By that time I knew that lovebirds shouldn't be kept in pairs, and I wasn't going to take her because I didn't want to deprive her of her bird. However my mother told me that the psychologist probably didn't want the lovebird anymore. So I told the psychologist that if I took her I'd keep them in separate cages, and I didn't think she'd get along with my other lovebird (who had very quickly bonded with my sun conure), but I'd take her if she wanted me to. She did, and that was the last bird I acquired until this year.

My Dwindling Flock
I lost the psychologist's lovebird to egg block after three or four years. I'd been destroying her nests as quickly as she built them and giving her egg biscuits to prevent egg block, but she still laid eggs, and it was shortly after one vacation (when I couldn't destroy her nest for two weeks and I hadn't given her egg biscuits recently because she hadn't been laying) that we lost her.

I lost the sun conure in college. He was probably about nine years old at the time, and the vet said that it looked like an infection he'd lost one of his birds too, which convinced me it wasn't my fault but I was still devastated. After that, I spent a lot more time with the Senegal, who had limits on how much time he'd spend with me and wasn't quite as cuddly as my sun conure, but did put up with me cuddling him without biting me.

Half a year after college I moved abroad, since that seemed like the best opportunity for me in light of my circumstances. My mother watched my remaining lovebirds (the plucky lovebird from the pet store and the Senegal) for about six months, while I tried to decide whether moving abroad was going to work out and whether it was worth putting the birds through quarantine, which seemed very stressful. When I returned for a month, the Senegal took two weeks to forgive me for leaving him.

I decided that I would be moving abroad for good but I didn't want to put the birds through quarantine, so I began looking for a new home for them. The first people I liked fell through (a family with all older children who had a quaker who was a one-person bird and wanted a family-friendly bird, bit the one person insisted that if they spent more time with the quaker it would get over its one personness and vetoed the adoption). I then spent three months vetting people remotely before I found a retired guy who my mother interviewed and liked. He took them in and sent us updates for a few months afterwards and then stopped.

Now
A year and a half after I'd decided to give up my birds, it became abundantly clear that living abroad was not going to work for me (not so much the living as the finding employers who didn't screw me over in the country where I wanted to live), so I ended up back home, wishing I hadn't given up my birds both loathe to get new ones because I was worried I might give them up again. So I went without birds for four years after returning home (six years in total), and finally a month and a half ago got more.

There was a woman near San Antonio who was giving up some of her birds because of age and infirmity. Among the birds she was giving up were a green-cheek conure and a quaker she'd gotten from a young couple who had no idea how to care for them, and had had for five years. Though they seem to be hand-raised, they'd also been living together and aren't quite as tame as the Senegal or sun conure were.

The quaker tolerates cuddling but doesn't seem to enjoy it (she also sidles away when I rub my cheek against her wing, something both my Senegal and sun conure would lean into), though she does seem to enjoy having her head and neck scratched. She's very sweet, and aside from two tiny nips on my neck which seemed to be exploratory, she has yet to bite me.

The green cheek is much more inquisitive than the quaker; he attempts to fly over to me with some regularity (since his wings are clipped; I have to pick him up). However he almost never enjoys having his head scratched (excepting some times when he's flown over to me), and makes that plain with bites if he persists. He also bites if I try to make my fingers into a stairmaster, and will bite my lips and ears out of boredom, meaning I don't trust him on my shoulder unless the quaker is between him and my face.

But I'm happy to have birds again, even if there's a lot of things I'm still trying to figure out, like who I'm going to have watch them when I go away and and how I'm going to get the quaker onto a better diet (the green-cheek will eat pellets and some fresh foods, I haven't seen the quaker eat anything other than seeds).

(I'm also feeling worse than ever about the Senegal, because the woman I got these birds from told me some rehoming horror stories. I'm pretty sure he took good care of the Senegal and didn't sell him, but I'm still not sure it was the right thing even if I had stayed abroad. For all I know he stopped sending us updates because he died, and of the birds I've acquired secondhand myself, at least three of their five previous owners were giving them up due to age or infirmity, meaning giving a fourteen-year-old Senegal I'd had for eleven years to a retired person might might not have been the best choice.)

Future
Now that I have some (the biggest step is between "no birds" and "birds") I may get more even while I'm living in an apartment, though that depends on figuring our birdsitting. (Ideally, I'd also like to get the quaker eating a better diet and to train the green cheek not to bite my ears and lips and to step up without biting even when he doesn't want to. Given that they're both at least six years old and likely older, I'm not sue if any of those things will be possible, but I'm going to try.)

If I do get more birds, every bird I've gotten since I was 12 has been a rehome. So that seems like the most likely option, and if I go that route it will be either a Poicephalus, an African gray, or a cockatiel. But there are breeders near me raising parrotlets, lineoleated parakeets, and iris lorikeets, all of which are somewhat tempting.

I'll definitely get more birds once I'm finally able to live in a house again. And ideally, I'd like to breed some rarer parrots and softbills eventually, but who knows when I'll have the land and money for that.
 

Cynthia & Percy

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welcome
 

Pipsqueak

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Welcome. I don't know how old you are and it may be rude but you sound immature. I can't believe that your parents did not take better care of the pets since you were not capable , my kids don't own our pets , they are family members and it is very clear to my husband and me that their care is on us. That beside, you just recently got two new to you birds and it sounds there are things you have to learn and work on with your birds so I would give it time and not get more. What it is that makes you want to have more instead of trying giving your bird the best life ? They should live for a long time, their care and vet upkeep is anything but cheap.
Anyway, this is a great board to learn a lot of the proper care and you will get a lot of advice.
 

Tiel Feathers

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:welave:
Thanks for sharing your story. I think one thing we can all learn from it, is that the decision to get a bird should not be taken lightly. I too hope your Senegal had a happy life after he was rehomed.
 

gavagai

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Welcome. I don't know how old you are and it may be rude but you sound immature. I can't believe that your parents did not take better care of the pets since you were not capable , my kids don't own our pets , they are family members and it is very clear to my husband and me that their care is on us. That beside, you just recently got two new to you birds and it sounds there are things you have to learn and work on with your birds so I would give it time and not get more. What it is that makes you want to have more instead of trying giving your bird the best life ? They should live for a long time, their care and vet upkeep is anything but cheap.
Anyway, this is a great board to learn a lot of the proper care and you will get a lot of advice.
I don't think saying I sound immature is rude; I tend to sound either a lot older or a lot younger than I am with little in between. In informal settings like this, I lean towards phrasing things in a somewhat stream-of-conciousness fashion which sounds younger than I am. Suggesting that I don't know parrots live a long time and avian vet care is expensive (though it's frankly not nearly as bad as human healthcare) on the other hand is not quite rude, but does seem a little bit patronizing. But that's because I'm not sure how anyone could have birds for over a decade and not know those things, and yet in so many other ways the human capacity for ignorance continues to astound me.

Though I thought this was clear, it's possible it wasn't: I'm not planning on getting any new birds in the near future. After I returned to the US, I waited a year until I was sure I was staying here before I even thought about getting new birds, and waited two years until my living situation was stable, and another year before I finally pulled the trigger. When I got birds in childhood, with the exception of the Senegal (who my father cared for until I was in college) and the psychologist's lovebird (which was unexpected) there was generally around a year of trying to persuade my parents to let me get them. However I expect to be living in this apartment for the next five years at least, and I could see myself getting another bird or two during that time. I certainly plan to have more birds afterwards.

I see your question about why would I want to get more birds as inherently ... odd. I only have two right now, and I've never had more than four birds at one time. I would never try to have a large number of pet birds at once. I'd say half a dozen is a hard limit even if some birds are bonded with each other, as the two I recently got. However I've noticed that aviculturists mostly seem to be old and increasingly retiring. I don't think I've seen an aviculturist under 50, and most of them have been doing it for decades. I've spoken with two retired/semi-retired breeders who've also said that younger people seem uninterested in breeding.

In your family, it was you and your husband who wanted the birds, right? The dynamic is different when the child wants the birds and the parents have little to no interest. I was asking for birds for years before I got any (lorikeets for probably two years before my parents let me get parrots, ducks and guinea hens for a couple years before that, and chickens before that), my parents waited until they thought I was old enough to handle birds and had done my research. Now, it happened that my research was incomplete and I got a lot of things wrong; and initially when the pet store disagreed with what I read I deferred to the the pet store. However the mistake I made with the budgie was something they wouldn't have caught (I really don't think that letting children have budgies as "beginner birds" is a sound strategy), and the mistakes with the lovebirds were a result of inaccurate and later incomplete information. I won't deny that my parents made mistakes in how they went about letting me have birds (the biggest foreseeable one was not doing any research themselves beyond asking the pet store about their care), but I don't think expecting an older child to care for their own pets is one of them.

:welave:
Thanks for sharing your story. I think one thing we can all learn from it, is that the decision to get a bird should not be taken lightly. I too hope your Senegal had a happy life after he was rehomed.
I hope so too. I know he did for the first year or so after I gave him up. What continues to haunt me is I have no idea what happened after that.
 

cassiesdad

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Welcome to the Avenue.

We're all just a sum total of what we've experienced in our life...and we hopefully gain some insight into life with our experiences. You've gained the knowledge that you're not quite ready for bird ownership yet. The birdsitting you're doing is adding to your knowledge and expertise for the day you do bring a bird into your life on a permanent basis.

And the learning doesn't stop the day a new feathered soul enters your life...I've been lucky to have birds in the house for 30-some years, and I learn something new almost every day about them...and the lesson is usually taught to me by the birds themselves...;)
 

gavagai

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I'm not birdsitting. I have two fairly new birds.

And I would disagree strongly with your claim that I'm not ready for bird ownership yet. It's possible that I wasn't when I was a kid, however that bridge has sailed. I still read books, I've corresponded with bird breeders, and like many people on this forum I've learned a lot from experience. The internet is also a much better resource when it was when I started.

I joined this forum because I was hoping there might be some aviculturists on here, and while I can't breed any birds yet, it's never to early to start thinking about it, particularly if I want to breed species that are less well-known.

My impression is that everybody here is more-or-less in the same boat as I am: you did what research you could but you're self-taught amateurs. The big difference is that most of you seem to have started as adults, when you were more-or-less aware of your life trajectory. That's also when I restarted. However so far I've had two people act as if I'm a complete novice or spectacularly incompetent around birds. Based on other things I've seen in this forum, I don't appear to be the only one.

I could have said: "Hi, I'm 28 and I've had birds most of my life since I was 10, my first birds were a budgie and lovebirds from a pet store; I later adopted older birds including a Senegal and a sun conure, as well as the green cheek and quaker I have now," it would have been entirely accurate and probably earned me a much warmer reception.

I didn't do that; I wanted to share my story, ugly bits, and all because my experience has taught me that:
  1. Giving children budgies as "starter birds" is a terrible idea. Even when children try to do well, I'm not the only person who has killed or injured a budgie as a child, not even close. They're incredibly fragile creatures, and children, even the best-intentioned children, are inherently somewhat careless.
  2. Older children are perfectly capable of taking care of somewhat larger birds.
  3. Even when you think you've done your research, there's always more you could learn. (The rise of the internet has helped this by making a lot more information available, but it also contributes to the spread of misinformation.)
  4. Parents who let their children get birds should do their own research, and not rely on the information they get from the person they're getting the bird from, particularly if they're getting it from a pet shop. (Of course in an ideal world, nobody would get birds from non-specialist pet shops at all.)
  5. Even when you do your best, you will still sometimes lose birds before their time.
  6. As difficult a rehoming is, the judginess of many people makes it much worse. While you may think that your circumstances will allow you to keep your bird for the rest of its life, if your circumstances change substantially, you may need to make a call about whether those changed circumstance or a rehoming is right for your bird. I decided, possibly incorrectly, that leaving my Senegal with my mother (who would let him sit on her shoulder for brief periods but didn't play with him) and putting him through 12 hour flight and month of quarantine were both worse alternatives than finding him a new home.
Plenty of people buy birds without any research, however people on this forum seem rather quick to rush to judgment. I'm not the problem, and neither are some of the other people I've seen members suggest are not ready for birds. However even if you were dealing with someone who clearly knew nothing about birds, "you're not ready for birds" (or worse, saying "this person isn't ready for birds") won't dissuade an irresponsible person from making a bad decision; all it may accomplish is discouraging them from seeking out advice in the future when they encounter difficulties.
 

cassiesdad

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I may get more even while I'm living in an apartment, though that depends on figuring our birdsitting. (
I am aware you have two new birds...I was referring to this statement.
However so far I've had two people act as if I'm a complete novice or spectacularly incompetent around birds.
I never intended to say you were "a complete novice or spectacularly incompetent around birds"...and to come to that conclusion based on my post is wrong.
 

CrazyBirdChick

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Welcome!

The only advice I can offer is that rubbing a bird's wing with your cheek is not a good idea because it can give the bird wrong ideas and cause hormonal problems, as you've already experienced with the egg bound bird. Stick to head and neck scritches.

Please share some pictures of your quaker and conure when you get a chance! We love pics!
 

gavagai

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I am aware you have two new birds...I was referring to this statement.
Ahh, that was a typo, though I can see how you reached that conclusion now. I mean that when I lived in the country I knew my neighbors and could have them watch them when I go away. I now live in the city, and don't know my neighbors, which means I'll have to hire a stranger to watch my birds over Thanksgiving.

I never intended to say you were "a complete novice or spectacularly incompetent around birds"...and to come to that conclusion based on my post is wrong.
The second response to my post was written as if were a complete novice who just got birds for the first time on a whim. I'm assuming it's a reflex from dealing with complete novices, but

With regards to thinking I'm spectacularly inept, perhaps I did misinterpret you. I mentioned having had birds for eleven years and waiting five years after I gave my last birds up until I was very sure I'd be able to keep them this time. You said I'm not ready to have birds. Can I ask what you did mean, then?

The only advice I can offer is that rubbing a bird's wing with your cheek is not a good idea because it can give the bird wrong ideas and cause hormonal problems, as you've already experienced with the egg bound bird.
Thanks, I actually didn't know that; I thought it was only the lower back which was an erogenous zone. However the egg-bound lovebird would not let me touch her in any way, so that was not the cause of her problems.
 

aooratrix

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We were all beginners once. There is a lot of good information here, so you've come to the right place.
 

SpecialistElbru

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I see your question about why would I want to get more birds as inherently ... odd. I only have two right now, and I've never had more than four birds at one time. I would never try to have a large number of pet birds at once. I'd say half a dozen is a hard limit even if some birds are bonded with each other, as the two I recently got. However I've noticed that aviculturists mostly seem to be old and increasingly retiring. I don't think I've seen an aviculturist under 50, and most of them have been doing it for decades. I've spoken with two retired/semi-retired breeders who've also said that younger people seem uninterested in breeding.
I believe what you are seeing is the results of a historic change in the "pet bird" trade in the USA. In the early 1970's domestic breeding was in the pioneering stages. In the 1980's a large portion of the parrots being sold as pets were wild captured birds imported into the US. Technical knowledge on domestic breading increased considerably in the 1980's. In 1993 there was an import ban that prevented wildcaught birds from being sold as pets.

By the late 1990's parrot production was at an all time high. If you read magazines or websites back then, it seems like large parrots were the pet of the future. The problem is that there are few people that are capable of taking care of a cockatoo/macaw/amazon/etc. These birds were sold just after weening (or sometimes before)then when the bird reached adulthood the owners could no longer control the bird.

The big-crunch happened with the finical crises of 2008. People did not have the same disposable income they once had. And the word finally got out that parrots make horrible pets for 98% of people. The market for big birds went down and large scale breeders (such as Keetee) boarded up.

There are still a few people breeding birds. There are still plenty of people breeding birds to accommodate the limited number of people who are willing to put in the work needed to take care of a large parrots..

Here is a version I wrote a back in 2014. What a difference a decade and a half makes
 
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iamwhoiam

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Welcome to AA.
 

Tyrion

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SpecialistElbru

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I do see potential that you you are willing to take on the learning and put in the time it takes to care for birds. From your past, I see that your mistakes haunt you and it seems like that can be your motivation for the future. I still think you would do best to read a good solid foundation on bird ownership.

I'm not too keen on relying on forums or periodicals as a place to get a foundation knowledge. They function good to get supplementation information and learn about new discoveries. But, sometimes you can miss important information such as ...

Thanks, I actually didn't know that; I thought it was only the lower back which was an erogenous zone. However the egg-bound lovebird would not let me touch her in any way, so that was not the cause of her problems.
...if forums/periodicals are your only source of information.

I think you might find a visit to a bird-rescue a good thing for you. Even if you have some hands-on experience with birds, it could be a good way to feel comfortable again. Plus it gives you a way to see how different birds have different personalities. Unfortunately there are few in Texas and the nearest ones are a long drive from San Antonio.
 

expressmailtome

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Welcome, and enjoy the site!
 

JLcribber

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I've noticed that aviculturists mostly seem to be old and increasingly retiring. I don't think I've seen an aviculturist under 50, and most of them have been doing it for decades. I've spoken with two retired/semi-retired breeders who've also said that younger people seem uninterested in breeding.

Thank goodness.
 

sunnysmom

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:welave:
 
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