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Undigested Millet in droppings

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atvchick95

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I would add that medication (even a natural remedy) generally shouldn't be performed without a diagnosis. Remedies like GSE and apple cider vinegar serve as alternative-medicine antimicrobial agents, and, efficacy debate aside, have a definite effect on a bird's homeostasis.

I don't mean to step into an area which is already marked by contest, but in this circumstance I do agree with Susanne- I think it would be better not to experimentally try a new antimicrobial without evidence of the presence of pathogens.

--

More importantly:

I've removed all spray millet from Ada's cage and don't plan on offering it as a treat in the near future. I know half the fun of millet is hulling it and pulling it off the spray, but I've been considering buying some hulled millet to try and determine if the problem is merely that, in a 'feeding frenzy', Ada ingests un-hulled seeds.

Any ideas/opinions?

that sounds like a good idea, Specially since most seed mixes have millet that is already hulled in them. so if Ada eats a seed mix fine, Then buying a single type of already hulled millet should work - Meaning Ada should take to it and eat it w/out issue

I think if there was 2plus seeds in every poop then I'd be worrying up a storm

but if this is just 1 seed every now and then (even if its the same week) I think you can let your stress level down some. and attempt to find a Avian vet in the area who is still in practice.

For now even if its just a dog/cat vet that see's birds. May help ease your mind


Also here is a list of Avian Vets, scroll down to your state, there are a few just not sure if any are near you

http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/abvpvets.htm
 

srtiels

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Remedies like GSE and apple cider vinegar serve as alternative-medicine antimicrobial agents, and, efficacy debate aside, have a definite effect on a bird's homeostasis.
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Even suposedly innocent sounding treatments such as ACV do have an effect by changing the pH in the digestive tract...thus these type of treatments have to be followed up with probiotics to restore the intestinal flora and pH.

Also, if you do not have an avian vet close by you can call a regular vet and ask them if they work with a lab that also processes avian specimans and cultures. If they do then you can have them do a culture.

In looking at your pix's if there was a giardia problem you would also see some mucous in the droppings. And if a bacterial problem some of the white urates would be thready and stringy looking. The urine looks alittle discolored in the second pix. That could be dehydration or the color affected by what was eaten.

Many times we are warned in what we read to avoid any salt in the diet because it is bad for them. We can go to the extreme that it could also contribute to health problems.

Salt/sodium is beneficial in birds with digestive disorders, such as passing whole seeds. It is necessary for the production of hydrochloric acid in the proventriculus, and also the muscle tone in the gizzard for grinding foods. It is also benefical for laying hens to help with good muscle contractions.

Very lightly salted rice water helps to halt additional dehydration when a bird has diarrhea. It helps to maintain the osmotic pressure in the body, thus protecting against excessive fluid losses.

A vet can prescribe a very dilute solution of hyrdochloric acid to help with muscle tone in the gizzard to properly grind up food/seeds.
 

srtiels

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I've removed all spray millet from Ada's cage and don't plan on offering it as a treat in the near future.
-------------------------------------

The seed that was in the droppings looked like a piece of white white which is commonly found in seed mixes.
 

ktemkin

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Also here is a list of Avian Vets, scroll down to your state, there are a few just not sure if any are near you
The nearest Avian vet is now an hour away- and they don't have an appointment available for a couple of weeks unless his condition worsens. I've made the appointment, and am now trying to do whatever I can in the interim.

The only full-featured lab in the area is at that same hospital.

The seed that was in the droppings looked like a piece of white white which is commonly found in seed mixes.
If he continues to pass millet seeds, I'll know it was white millet- but looking at it myself, it seems almost identical to the seeds on the sprays I have.
 
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ktemkin

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Things have taken a turn for the worse in the past few hours.

Ada can barely stay awake. Almost no feces in droppings. Was eating until a couple of hours ago.

How do I check his crop?

(posted from my mobile)
 

Kathie

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You need to get him right to the vet. Did you take him to the vet previously? No feces means he is either not eating or possibly has bacteria that is eating everything before his body can absorb it.

Is he thin? Can you get him to a vet right away? TIme is of the essence.
 

ktemkin

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I've given him a little bit of corn syrup and he's perked up a bit- he's actually having fun and playing now in short spurts, bless him; and now he seems to be eating his seed mix, a little.

Cornell (nearest avian vet, an hour away) has no lab facilities running at night- they can't even run a gram stain. I can take him in tonight and they'll hospitalize him until tomorrow, or I can keep him in a hospital cage here and have him there when they open tomorrow.

Trying to get ahold of them now.
 
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Kathie

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Did they run any testing on him previously?

How is his weight? Does he feel thin?

If he has an infection, corn syrup is not going to fix it. He is likely peppy from the sugar.

Is he puffy?
 

ktemkin

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Did they run any testing on him previously?
I only have gram stain and blood test results from about three weeks ago, before the symptoms kicked in. Before it got worse, Cornell didn't want to run anything new until the 24th.

How is his weight? Does he feel thin?
His weight is about 70 right now compared to his usual 72-73, so he has lost a little bit of weight, but not an extreme amount. He does feel underweight, but he always has.

Is he puffy?
He seems to alternate between being puffed and not. He's perching okay right now, though.

If he has an infection, corn syrup is not going to fix it.
I wouldn't be able to tell if he has an infection without a gram stain, which Cornell won't do until tomorrow.
 

ktemkin

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He hasn't had a single dropping at all in about 40-50 minutes. I'm really afraid.

Fiancée is on the phone with Cornell. Hospitalization may be a better option. What do you guys think?
 

atvchick95

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He hasn't had a single dropping at all in about 40-50 minutes. I'm really afraid.

Fiancée is on the phone with Cornell. Hospitalization may be a better option. What do you guys think?

since most birds poop every 15 mins (at the least it also depends if they ate a lot of fruits and things with water that'll make em' poop more often) then Yes I think letting him go to the hospital is the best bet right now

they can at least put an IV of fluids to keep him from dehydrating, and probably even feed him with a crop needle there as well so that way he'll be getting food , nutrients and liquid.
 

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I've given him a little bit of corn syrup and he's perked up a bit- he's actually having fun and playing now in short spurts, bless him; and now he seems to be eating his seed mix, a little.

As stated above the corn syrup is a temporary fix. The bird should be seen by an avian vet as soon as possible.

My opinion is the bird should have been given some ACV or GSE several days ago. Doing so would have given you a jump on any infection whether bacterial or fungal. The bird now needs an antibiotic or antifungal should he have an advanced infection. Please keep your bird warm, hydrated and supplied with food while waiting to see your avian vet.
 

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He hasn't had a single dropping at all in about 40-50 minutes. I'm really afraid.

Fiancée is on the phone with Cornell. Hospitalization may be a better option. What do you guys think?
I would get him in there. Do they have an emergency Avian Vet on call? Darn. I know Jamie Morrissey. He is very good and is on staff there. I wish I had his cell number. Let me know what they say.
 

Kathie

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Kyle... please check in.
 

ktemkin

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Hey, sorry for the wait. We called Cornell; they had a vet and a clinician call us back.

We described everything that's going been going on; the vet and clinician talked it over and decided that Ada is in no immediate danger, especially considering he's still eating. He actually just had two small droppings one after the other- the vet believes that this is the result of constipation.

We have an appointment with them early tomorrow, to get Ada tested in the lab. We're on emergency priority, so we should be able to know what's going on. The vet/technician I've seen in the past at Cornell are both very good at what they do, so I feel a lot better knowing Ada will see them soon.

(I'm really glad I have an emergency fund for these kinds of things.)

Thanks so much for all of your concern! I'll let you know if anything changes.
 

Danita

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I hope everything is okay, update us after the appointment if you can.
 

Kathie

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Thanks so much for the update! Please let us know how you make out tomorrow.

For tonight, please keep him warm. Do you have a heating pad that does not automatically turn off?
 

ktemkin

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Do you have a heating pad that does not automatically turn off?
The one I'm using for him turns off after a couple of hours, so I've been turning it back on manually when I can, and in the interim I'm keeping our bedroom, where he sleeps, in the mid 80s.

The little digital device I bought for his cage says the relative humidity is 55-60%. That's enough humidity that I don't need to turn on his humidifier as well, right?
 

Kathie

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Hi - just checking in to see how he is doing....
 
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