Undigested Millet in droppings

[Anne & Gang]

yes, normally it is...poor baby...I sure hope he is ok...he really doesn't look well...have they tested for heavy metal toxicity etc?

 

[Redbird]

Kyle,

Foamy feces is normally associated with a clostridium infection. Call your vet to let him know about the change in droppings. A clostridium test with a fecal sample can be accomplished by microscope but PCR is very accurate.

Heavy metal or zinc is always a possibility with birds. You might give some thought to what the bird plays or rubs his beak on. Paint on cages has been know to have lead or zinc above toxic limits. Heavy metal testing will require another blood draw. Please discuss with your vet. Keep in mind the weekend is almost here and few labs will be open.

Call your vet ASAP........

 

[ktemkin]

Kyle,

Foamy feces is normally associated with a clostridium infection.

I know: Clostridium is best fought with a tetracycline (like the doxy), isn't it?

I will let our vet know, but due to the load on Cornell Exotics they can't have him in before next week. I can see Emergency if things worsen.

He gained back some of the weight he lost and has been more active. I just hope this antibiotic gets him all better.

We're going to buy him a second, smaller cage and heat lamp so he can be warm in my upstairs office. It's hard to work from your bedroom when your computer's upstairs, and I haven't wanted to stress him by suddenly leaving him alone for some of the 7-8 hours a day I usually have him out.

(posted from my mobile)

 

[Redbird]

Kyle,

Yes, doxycycline will work with varying results on certain strains of clostridium. Other antibiotics may work better but considering possible psittacosis, doxycycline is a good choice. The correct protocol for selecting an antibiotic for your bird would be culture and sensitivity testing, this may take up to 6 days after the lab recieves the sample. Since your bird appears to have an infection that may be to long to wait. I suggest you use the doxycycline as prescribed and observe the results. Many vets will allow you to bring a fecal sample to them for cuture and sensitivities. A phone call to your local avian vet for advice will ease your mind.

 

[ktemkin]

Trying to get him to take it now. Its been a whole hour of trying and he still won't take it. We can get him restrained perfectly in a towel, but he refuses to open his beak. If we force his beak open, he flails his tongue.

He has incredible spirit- but it's misdirected right now.

--

Edit:

Ok, I've got it. I've had to do that before with other birds, but none of them have ever fought this much. Poor baby!

There aren't any local avian vets in the area anymore but I'm going to go to a non-avian vet who has some experience with birds tomorrow and ask her to run a fecal gram stain, and to especially look for a collection of gram-positive rods. I don't suspect she'll be too thrilled with the idea, but AFAIK the process doesn't really differ from a mammalian gram stain.

 

[rikkitikki]

I noticed that there were paper clip things (don't know their official name) that was holding up some greens in one of the pics. What do we know about them for the use of birds? Do you use them a lot? Somebody brought up metal toxicity and I saw those. I know next to nothing about that stuff, I don't even have my own bird yet, so who knows...

 

[atvchick95]

I noticed that there were paper clip things (don't know their official name) that was holding up some greens in one of the pics. What do we know about them for the use of birds? Do you use them a lot? Somebody brought up metal toxicity and I saw those. I know next to nothing about that stuff, I don't even have my own bird yet, so who knows...

good eye, they're called Binder clips

Amazon.com: SPR87002 - Small Binder Clip,3/4Wide,3/8 Capacity,12/PK,Black/Silver: Office Products

Those particular ones i just posted are nickle plated and would be safe

but I know there are all different makers of these clips and I do not think ALL are safe metal

my kids have brought them home from school and left them out side and they rusted

the best and cheapest way to clip veggies and greens on to a bird cage is Go to the dollar tree and get a pack of WOODEN clothes pens or PLASTIC clothes pens . you can get a pack for a buck they work like charms

 

[ktemkin]

Those clips were only a stop-gap measure and were used supervised so he couldn't chew on them. They're supposed to be stainless steel and nickel- but their composition is probably questionable. They were only added after the illness began, anyway.

He doesn't really chew on his cage bars, though he does use them for climbing. I attend and work for a university, so I wonder if I can curry enough favor with anyone at the chem research foundation to get some chromatography done on traces of the cage bars. It's a long shot, I think, but it'd be awfully nice.

 

[jmfleish]

Those clips were only a stop-gap measure and were used supervised so he couldn't chew on them. They're supposed to be stainless steel and nickel- but their composition is probably questionable. They were only added after the illness began, anyway.

He doesn't really chew on his cage bars, though he does use them for climbing. I attend and work for a university, so I wonder if I can curry enough favor with anyone at the chem research foundation to get some chromatography done on traces of the cage bars. It's a long shot, I think, but it'd be awfully nice.

If you're worried about heavy metal poisoning, it would probably be easier and cheaper to just run a heavy metal poison test on your bird. It's a blood draw and they can run both lead and zinc with the same test. It's about $100 but your bird doesn't seem to have the symptoms associated with HMP.

 

[Kathie]

Good morning, Kyle. How's the little guy doing today?

 

[ktemkin]

His condition seems pretty constant. Better than the day we took him to the vet, so that's something.

Going to get him an injection of Doxy soon so we can avoid some side effects if we can.

(posted from my mobile)

 

[Kathie]

Keep us posted. What did you think of Dr. Morrissey?

 

[Renae]

Only just seen this, poor little guy, it hurts to see your own bird(s) when they are sick. I will keep him in my thoughts & I hope he makes a quick and full recovery.

 

[ktemkin]

What did you think of Dr. Morrissey?

I haven't actually seen or spoke to him. He saw Ada after the clinician took him away for blood tests, and then my fiancée spoke to him over the phone. I know she was impressed with him, as well as with the vet we saw earlier at Cornell, Dr. DeMatos.

I'm just thankful he has time to squeeze Ada in when he's so incredibly busy.

 

[ktemkin]

Had a bad night.

The psittacosis test was returned today negative, so that isn't the source of Ada's illness.

We had to rush Ada to Cornell for observation after he gagged and possibly aspirated medicine. We weren't sure how much he aspirated- it was a really frightening ten minutes before we were sure he wouldn't drown.

He fights his medicine to the point where the vet has told us to desist it- we'll be going back tomorrow for some kind of injectable.

I wish we had some idea what's causing his illness.

 

[Kathie]

I am so sorry to hear this. How is Ada doing now?

Have you tried putting the meds on a piece of bread or even a cracker?

Please keep us posted.

 

[jmfleish]

I hate to even suggest it but at this point, it does sound a bit like PDD. Have any of the vets mentioned this to you? - Oops, I thought you said he gagged period, I didn't see that he gagged on the medication. I'd still ask about PDD.

 

[ktemkin]

I hate to even suggest it but at this point, it does sound a bit like PDD. Have any of the vets mentioned this to you? - Oops, I thought you said he gagged period, I didn't see that he gagged on the medication. I'd still ask about PDD.

We suggested it to the vet, actually. Note that clostridium (which often accompanies the foamy urates he's been having) produces a toxin which can actually have the same effect as ABV in causing the neurological damage which causes PDD.

The significant difference between clostridium psuedo-PDD and real ABV-PDD is that clostridium can be treated with an antibiotic, preventing further damage.

 

[Anne & Gang]

the poor baby......continued thoughts and healing prayers on the way

 

[Redbird]

Kyle,

Please find a route of antibiotic delivery you are comfortable with ASAP.

Next find out the cause of infection and take measures to eliminate the source should it be cause by food and or bacteria in the birds housing. Disinfect all the birds toys, perches and cage. Make sure you wash your hands before and after handling your bird. Ideal disinfectant for cage and bird would be F-10, Hibiclens excellent for your hands and personal protection.