Request for more prominent warning about use of AA in lieu of vet

[itzmered]

Well said Bonnie it is easy to sit behind a computer screen and pass judgement when we don't know the entire situation of their financial situation or access to a vet. It is easy to say they should have a vet fund and not so easy for many to actually do that. It is easy to say they can do a phone consult with a vet but will those vets talk to an individual to prescribe medicine over the phone? I doubt it and then how would they get that prescription if they dont have a vet in the area? Many times when people do post on here as is the case of the latest one even if they had taken it in to the vet it was most likely to late at that point to do more than provide comfort care for the bird. WHat we can provide these people is advice and support with out being judgmental of their personal decisions and situations.

 

[sodakat]

I live far away from the nearest vet who sees birds (127 miles) and cannot even find a Board Certified Avian Vet less than 500 miles away from me (I live in eastern South Dakota). I think there are 30+ states WITHOUT BCAVs.

My suggestion for this 911 section is that people not volunteer second hand information but instead post only when they have experienced the same problem as the OP who is asking for help.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Thanks for that post Bonnie. You are correct, there is a LOT of information on this forum for both the new bird owner and the seasoned pro. The issue is to make member new/old aware of where the information is and to get them to read it. It's a lot more fun to post on a "happy" thread than to do some digging around for information that may serve you well in an emergency situation.

I have a couple of low tech suggestions;
1. In the welcome section direct a new member to the medical and warning forums - in addition to welcoming the member. The information may stick in their mind for that event when they need information - right now.
2. When some one asks for help in 911 or elsewhere, in addition to your own advice, either point them towards the information forums or go to the trouble to post the link yourself to make it easier.
3. When a person asks for help, please give them help, not guilt. After being told to take their bird to the vet 20 times in a row - even the dullest person will get the idea, but may be discouraged and leave.
4. Try to keep in mind that the best laid plans of men and mice can go astray (especially during these extreme economic times) - Don't criticize a man until you have walked in his moccasins for two moons.
5. Remember the objective is to help the bird, not to assuage our feelings of rage, passion, disgust.

Everyone can feel/offer compassion:
[h=2]Definition of COMPASSION[/h]: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

OR perhaps go the way of the other forums and DO AWAY with the 911 forum altogether!!!!-then We would not only not have to feel bad about those that We cannot help,But we would NOT have to have this kind of Discussion!!!!!

 

[suncoast]

In my case I have no right to judge anyone about anything, and I have not done so. All I was trying to do is offer help and suggestions for those who come behind. I was not judging when I suggested putting money away in a vet fund, I was not judging when I suggested that even if you don't have access to an avian vet you could take your bird to a regular vet and do a CAV consultation, I know it works because Dr. Burkett has consulted with a many bird parronts and their vets over the years including a Skype call to Pakistan. There have been people on here from all over the world that have asked for our help and many of us have searched the net for ANY kind of vet in their area, one girl in Lebanon ended up taking her bird to the vet school at the US University there. We are here to leave no stone unturned in helping these people, not to judge them. I have thought and thought and thought about how to offer practical, financial help that's fraud safe. I had no idea there was a sticky that listed charities that are out there to do that. (Thanks Judy). We do the best we can and if unkind things are said it's because we speak from our hearts about the pain and suffering for a little bit of a bird that has no one to speak for it. We feel bad that we couldn't have done more.

Ginger

 

[Mythreeiggys]

My personal opinion is there should be no 911 section. None of us are AV's and none of us can help with 911 situations. It's very obvious that a 911 situation is just that...it's an emergency that needs to be taken care of by a PROFESSIONAL, not by experienced parrot owners. If my son woke up and his stomach was swollen, the last thing I would do is go to a forum for advice. We can only do so much and personally, it's extremely frustrating to watch everyone tell someone they need to see a vet and that person give 50 reasons not to. We've seen it way to many times where a new member comes here for 911 advice, we tell them we can't do anything and they need to see a vet, they tell us it's not possible and the bird dies. I stay out of the 911 section because regardless of the situation, there seems to always he the same outcome and I can't handle seeing a bird suffer when it needs help.

 

[Bridgette]

Okay, this post will probably get deleted, but I need to say it.

I get having compassion for people. I feel terrible for people who are down on their luck. I do. I get it. Times are tough. It sucks to be broke. It sucks to not be able to afford things. It must be hard to watch your pet suffer because you can't afford to take them to the vet. And, for that, I do have compassion.

But, bottom line, someone needs to stand up for the birds. Someone needs to advocate for them. They have no say. They can't take themselves to the vet. Someone needs to be the person to say enough is enough. If you can't afford your pets, don't get them. Your bird didn't ask to be brought into your family. Sure, if you didn't take them, they could have had it worse but they could have had it better, too. They don't deserve to die over something as stupid as money. Where there is a will, there is a way. If Kiwi needed a vet and I couldn't afford one, I would find a way. I would beg friends and family for loans. I would sell what I could. I would try to get a loan or care credit. I would find a way. I sure as heck wouldn't be sitting on my computer posting on a forum hoping for compassion for ME when my bird was dying.

I'm sorry if that's harsh. I really really am sorry. It's just how I feel.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I agree that it can be so frustrating when people have a very ill, possibly dying animal and don't do anything about it. I don't know what the answer is if there is not a vet in the area. I'm not sure I would have a pet that I couldn't get veterinary care for it needed. That would just be really scary for me. I don't really know what the answer is here. One thing I have learned about forums is that sometimes you have to stay away from the ones that are frustrating for you. I have had to stay away from the Dog Forums that are on Bird Forums, like the Bark Park here on AA. I personally couldn't stand the inaccurate information and recommendations posted there from non professionals. Yes, it is fine to have an "opinion", but if someone's "opinion" goes against information that has been back by science or studies or research and goes against what the most respected leaders in our industry or profession say and it's being thrown out there as fact, it is just too frustrating to deal with. I don't know what the answer is, but more warnings couldn't hurt I don't think.

 

[Hankmacaw]

OR perhaps go the way of the other forums and DO AWAY with the 911 forum altogether!!!!-then We would not only not have to feel bad about those that We cannot help,But we would NOT have to have this kind of Discussion!!!!!

I have been on this forum and on the previous "unnamed" forum since almost the beginning. I can count on the fingers of one hand with a couple of fingers left over how many times I have seen inappropriate or inaccurate advice given to a 911 poster. There have been many times that a bird's life was most likely saved by the advice given to an inexperienced owner. I can remember the individual on the other forum who insisted on doing away with it's 911 and was met with extreme resistance.

I can remember you, Bonnie, helping so many people with their Grey health issues.

 

[Mizzely]

Personally, I think stickies are pretty invisible. You have these things that have been up there since 2009, and members that have been here for years haven't seen them - why would a new member have any reason to notice them?

Does this forum software have anything where you have to "Accept" a message given before you are able to post in a certain section (ie, 911)? Or when you send the "Welcome to AA" private message when people join, can't it include links to medical and financial help?

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

Bridgette,what You say is a wee bit harsh-but it is reality.What I'm trying to get across is the Whole picture---as in-to quote SodaKat
I live far away from the nearest vet who sees birds (127 miles) and cannot even find a Board Certified Avian Vet less than 500 miles away from me (I live in eastern South Dakota). I think there are 30+ states WITHOUT BCAVs.




Everything is not as easy as We would like it to be!

 

[suncoast]

I would like to say that the 911 forum is the beating heart of Avian Avenue. It is where the rubber hits the road. I have been posting on this board for around 7 years total and I can tell you that in all that time, I can't remember any bird that has died from the advice that was given here, and the number of birds and parronts we have helped is incalculable. To even suggest removing it is painful to me.

Ginger

 

[Bridgette]

I get that some people don't live around vets that don't see birds. When I lived in PA, I had to drive over an hour to get Kiwi to the vet. But, you know what...I did it.

I adopted a cat from the SPCA right after college. I had cats all my life and never had problems with them, so I figured I could afford the upkeep. This cat was sickly from day one. He had crystals in his kidneys and had to be drained. Finally, he needed surgery to open his urethra. Then he developed thyroid cancer. I drove him to Delaware to see a specialist and get radiation to treat the tumor. I borrowed money and used credit cards to cover over $4000 in medical bills for him. I brought him into my home. Saying, "I can't afford it" was NOT an option. So, when I see people scoffing at paying for a vet for a bird, I have a hard time digging up compassion.

 

[Maxsmom]

I do not feel this thread was started with judgment or has been that way with posts. This thread is and has been about ensuring, while we have done a good job, that we get the message out as prominently as we can about vet care. If this thread is perceived as judgmental then know that is not the intent and the focus should be on the intent. What harm is there in improving the format. Again great job but there can always be improvements.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Ginger - "In my case I have no right to judge anyone about anything, and I have not done so. All I was trying to do is offer help and suggestions for those who come behind. "

No one who can read and comprehend English on even the most basic level, would ever take your post a s judgmental.

 

[Lovebird Lady]

If I ever found myself in a financial crisis where there was NO WAY possible that I could EVER afford emergency vet care for any of my animals, I would rehome them all to homes that could, rather than give them a death sentence that any future medical crisis would lead to. If fids were kids, the State would be on top of these parronts SO FAST, placing fids in foster care, before you could say "veterinary care". Prevention is the ONLY way to go if you choose to have any animals. It is a moral, if not legal, obligation for all pet owners.

 

[sodakat]

Bridgette,what You say is a wee bit harsh-but it is reality.What I'm trying to get across is the Whole picture---as in-to quote SodaKat
I live far away from the nearest vet who sees birds (127 miles) and cannot even find a Board Certified Avian Vet less than 500 miles away from me (I live in eastern South Dakota). I think there are 30+ states WITHOUT BCAVs.




Everything is not as easy as We would like it to be!

BTW, when my vet learned he had to give up his avian practice because of a health issue (last April) he wrote all of clients to let us know that although he had tried, he could not find any vet to see our birds. We were on our own to find someone.

 

[itzmered]

I have said this before and will say it again. It is great to say we are "advocating" for the birds.People have to remember that that bird can not read this forum, that bird can not go out and buy itself a nice cage and toys, that bird can not go out and buy itself a decent diet of food, that bird can not provide itself with vet care. The ONLY one that can do that is the PERSON that has come to this or any other forum for some advice. How you present that advice determines whether that PERSON will read it. If you shove it down their throats, preach at the person or get nasty with them they go into a defensive mode and don't listen to anything you have to say except for the criticism. If you present the advice to them in a way that is helpful and not judgmental they are much more apt to read what you have to say and hopefully it will stick in their minds and they will learn from it. Advocating for the birds has nothing to do with being snarky and nasty to people. It is also easy to say that they shouldnt own that pet in the first place. To late they already do own it and now it needs help not criticism. We also have no idea if they were fairly set financially when they got the bird and things happened. Heck look at a few members here who lost their jobs or their spouses lost their jobs. Many people are faced with that situation. They have suffered some pretty hard times financially so does that mean that they should give up their birds instead?

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

I'm done!

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I don't think that people who don't have a vet or have had financial hard times should feel under attack or take anything personally. This isn't about "you" or an attack on anyone, it is just people being sad that a bird died, possibly because she didn't get seen by a vet and feeling emotional about it. If the 911 section is going to be taken away then I do think it would be good if you clicked on 911 but were directed to a large posting that explained that you cannot get a diagnosis on a sick animal without seeing a vet and about how birds hide illnesses well, etc, etc. JMO