Poppers had another real bad episode

[Rain Bow]

Is there normally complete silence in your house? Could the fact that it's so quiet be freaking her out. Based on your description of no neighbors, it sounds like it's really quiet where you live. Unless my brain has turned to complete mush, (feeling like it's getting there) as I've been catching up reading, posting off & on for a few hours.

Maybe there's too much quiet when these episodes happen. I've read that when the forest gets quiet birds tend to be on high alert... Dang it, if I can actually find it in a google search which I've been re-writing criteria & cannot locate it from even 1 reputable source. Could maybe even a radio a few rooms away in the morning be a comfort to her taxed out system. IDK, my guess is if you normally have the tv on in the background to the normal day going ons, & now it's almost silent...

 

[Hawk12237]

Is there normally complete silence in your house? Could the fact that it's so quiet be freaking her out. Based on your description of no neighbors, it sounds like it's really quiet where you live. Unless my brain has turned to complete mush, (feeling like it's getting there) as I've been catching up reading, posting off & on for a few hours.

Maybe there's too much quiet when these episodes happen. I've read that when the forest gets quiet birds tend to be on high alert... Dang it, if I can actually find it in a google search which I've been re-writing criteria & cannot locate it from even 1 reputable source. Could maybe even a radio a few rooms away in the morning be a comfort to her taxed out system. IDK, my guess is if you normally have the tv on in the background to the normal day going ons, & now it's almost silent...

We rarely ever have tv on during day, I think at most, we watch 2-3 hours of tv in evening, if that.
We just have others things we do. Music is usually on during day. Not blasting, but in low.
Poppers usually used to start singing when a song came on she likes. I've kept it a little more quiet past couple weeks, not too quiet.
Some days it's so quiet you could hear a mosquito burp!! But radio is on soft music right now. I did some research, and music by Beethoven is actually good for people that had seizures or strokes. Stimulates activity in brain.
But have no idea what effect that might have on a parrot. Can't hurt.

 

[Hawk12237]

My vet is conservative in throwing too much at once at her, nor over medicating her. But Tuesday she can come off two of the meds for the infection. But stays on the one for her vascular issues.
So may put her on stuff to prevent the seizure/ stroke from happening, or controlling them so they don't get severe.

Well vet is now putting her on liquid anti-seizure
Medication. To help control anymore episodes.
Everything else is looking good she said...it's evident she has a little neurological effect from all this, but it's too early yet to know if much if any she'll recover of that.
Her balance is good, a little wobbly when she shakes her feathers. But she can get down from her gym, to floor, and climb up a different place to perch. So her coordination and thinking in those terms is good.
Her weight is increasing, her poops are bulkier, though meds and emeraid omnivore can make it a bit watery at times.
Soooo, it's day by day right now.

 

[webchirp]

I don't know if this will help her or if I missed it...but Fiona the quaker was having terrible seizures.

 

[Hawk12237]

I think that is the right thing to do. I wish you can continue doing so. I would have done anything that not was making her stressful.
Have you been discussing if she can have epilepsy?
If they get a seizure they get unconscious and are unreachable. When they wake up they are very confused and don't recognize their owners.
I'm not sure that you should hold her when she have a seizure for that reason. Can't you place her in a darker smaller area with no sound, and see what happens?
And let her stay until she recognize you or your wife.

Have you have her tested for lead poisoning?

I think you should try something, and I still think that the trigger is stress.
If nothing helps, and she's not getting better, you always have that last sad option.
You will know what to do and when. But until then I continue to sending positive and healing thoughts her way.

I know she hates these syringes, but even today, I didn't towel her, instead placed her on back of chair, and held her back, and using thumb to guide into beak. She took her syringes much quicker. Epilepsy? Hmmm, interesting thought.
Possible I guess, but I'll run that by vet next time I talk to her.
I do know the last sad option, and that's definitely the last option. But only when all else fails and she gets terribly worse.
We did that with our past dog a couple years back. She had a stroke, but also had cancer. We did the surgery on her, which gave her another happy 14 months, but then took a turn had another episode. Couldn't walk. So we took her in to the vet and had her go to dog heaven. I won't let an animal suffer. But if there's hope, I always try that first. The will to live is the greatest force on earth. Where's there's a will, there's a way.

 

[Hawk12237]

I don't know if this will help her or if I missed it...but Fiona the quaker was having terrible seizures.

[TTACH]315238[/ATTACH]

Vet called some in a little bit ago....Will be picking some up at pharmacy. Not sure if it's the same stuff, but probably similar.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Kappra is specifically for Myoconic Seizures and is generally used for children in humans.

Myoclonic Seizures | Epilepsy Foundation
What is a myoclonic seizure?
Myoclonic (MY-o-KLON-ik) seizures are brief, shock-like jerks of a muscle or a group of muscles. "Myo" means muscle and "clonus" (KLOH-nus) means rapidly alternating contraction and relaxation—jerking or twitching—of a muscle. Usually they don't last more than a second or two. There can be just one, but sometimes many will occur within a short time.

Even people without epilepsy can experience myoclonus in hiccups or in a sudden jerk that may wake you up as you're just falling asleep. These things are normal.

In epilepsy, myoclonic seizures usually cause abnormal movements on both sides of the body at the same time. They occur in a variety of epilepsy syndromes that have different characteristics:

• Juvenile myoclonic epilepsy: The seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, and upper arms. In many patients the seizures most often occur soon after waking up. They usually begin around puberty or sometimes in early adulthood in people with a normal range of intelligence. In most cases, these seizures can be well controlled with medication but it must be continued throughout life.
• Lennox-Gastaut syndrome: This is an uncommon syndrome that usually includes other types of seizures as well. It begins in early childhood. The myoclonic seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, upper arms, and often the face. They may be quite strong and are difficult to control.
• Progressive myoclonic epilepsy: The rare syndromes in this category feature a combination of myoclonic seizures and tonic-clonic seizures. Treatment is usually not successful for very long, as the patient deteriorates over time.

For anyone who wants to have an understanding of seizures in parrots, this is a good understandable article;

Seizures in Birds | VCA Animal Hospital

 

[Hawk12237]

Kappra is specifically for Myoconic Seizures and is generally used for children in humans.

Myoclonic Seizures | Epilepsy Foundation
What is a myoclonic seizure?
Myoclonic (MY-o-KLON-ik) seizures are brief, shock-like jerks of a muscle or a group of muscles. "Myo" means muscle and "clonus" (KLOH-nus) means rapidly alternating contraction and relaxation—jerking or twitching—of a muscle. Usually they don't last more than a second or two. There can be just one, but sometimes many will occur within a short time.

Even people without epilepsy can experience myoclonus in hiccups or in a sudden jerk that may wake you up as you're just falling asleep. These things are normal.

In epilepsy, myoclonic seizures usually cause abnormal movements on both sides of the body at the same time. They occur in a variety of epilepsy syndromes that have different characteristics:

• Juvenile myoclonic epilepsy: The seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, and upper arms. In many patients the seizures most often occur soon after waking up. They usually begin around puberty or sometimes in early adulthood in people with a normal range of intelligence. In most cases, these seizures can be well controlled with medication but it must be continued throughout life.
• Lennox-Gastaut syndrome: This is an uncommon syndrome that usually includes other types of seizures as well. It begins in early childhood. The myoclonic seizures usually involve the neck, shoulders, upper arms, and often the face. They may be quite strong and are difficult to control.
• Progressive myoclonic epilepsy: The rare syndromes in this category feature a combination of myoclonic seizures and tonic-clonic seizures. Treatment is usually not successful for very long, as the patient deteriorates over time.

For anyone who wants to have an understanding of seizures in parrots, this is a good understandable article;

Seizures in Birds | VCA Animal Hospital

These are very interesting and excellent articles Mary! Thank you!

 

[Tiel Feathers]

Beethoven is actually good for people that had seizures or strokes. Stimulates activity in brain.

Beethoven is good for us all!
I hope the medication works well. Still sending healing thoughts Poppers way!

 

[Hawk12237]

Today poppers had a pretty good day. Almost seemed like her old self again.
I changed some things up a bit. A little experiment per se and taking notes. I skipped a couple of her syringe feedings this afternoon and evening one. Plus backed off her infection medicine to half amount.
She was more perkier, fanning tail, pinning eyes and even raised her feathers on head. Plus tried talking, but scratchy.
She showed excitement when momma came home. The excited wimper.
I chose to back down her syringe feeding as to not cause stress. She was more happier.
Instead I made chop and her favorites...she ate and drank from bowl. And even went to Graysons cage to eat, then back to hers....then climb down to dig through seeds and pellets, then to her water bowl for drink. I was very pleased about this.
I didn't want to continue syringe feeding as to make it a habit, I wanted her to seek the food out herself and see if she remembers to eat and drink...she dose! And a lot too.
When you syringe feed and water a bird, they don't have the initiative to get it for themselves. They begin to rely on you. You don't want that unless they absolutely can't feed themselves.
It's good progress and excersize....since it was warm today, she had a mild mist spray to help get sticky from syringe drop off her. She was quite happy about that.
Here's photo of her eating on own tonite on her gym..which also has seeds and pellets.

 

[EkkieLu]

She looks like she's doing so much better now! I'm so very happy for Poppers!!!

 

[Hawk12237]

She looks like she's doing so much better now! I'm so very happy for Poppers!!!

I'm almost reluctant to give the anti-seizure medication. I know it can make them a bit dopey.
Besides the medicine the vet ordered has to be ordered from pharmacy , so didn't get that today, maybe tomorrow.

 

[Rain Bow]

Oh! I'm so happy that she's doing well today! Maybe between what you wrote that changed & the Music going on everything felt standard & routine again.

My only concern is the antibiotics being reduced. Was the vet recommending this? (My grandmother was a nurse) & She passed down thru my family that you never mess w/ antibiotics. Always the full dosage amount for the entire time amount, as the Dr recommended . To reduce or stop is for the breeding ground to start to gain momentum again & start the entire infectious process over again. I realize that it messes w/ gut flora when taking all the script & the patient eats less to get/keep their stomach from hurting more. I know it was making Poppers feel (honestly) like total crap & the probiotics only do so much for that. But by reducing the amount you're setting her up to have another infection & have to go thru this all over again. None of us wants that... I'm glad her memories are intact & that she's feeling better but please get her antibiotic levels back up Asap, unless the Dr. recommended or wanted you to do this.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

I’m so glad Poppers had such a good day. What a great update! I hope every day brings more good news!

 

[Nikomania]

Agree with Rain Bow. If not all of the bacteria has been eradicated when you reduce or stop the antibiotics, it can regrow with a vengeance.
Even though the anti seizure meds cause lethargy, you need to get Poppers through his acute phase before considering not using any. You want to rest his neurons until the vet concurs that you can begin tapering off.

 

[Hawk12237]

Agree with Rain Bow. If not all of the bacteria has been eradicated when you reduce or stop the antibiotics, it can regrow with a vengeance.
Even though the anti seizure meds cause lethargy, you need to get Poppers through his acute phase before considering not using any. You want to rest his neurons until the vet concurs that you can begin tapering off.

See your point. Vet did say poppers had to take the medicine for two weeks ( from the 3rd) or when it's gone, which is a couple more days and it'll be gone.
Metoclopramide to my understanding is not an antibiotic. Mainly for her gastric issues. It's a gastrointestinal prokinetic medicine.
The nystatin suspension is an antimycotic polyene antibiotics for fungal and yeast infection. Which poppers had onset of on 3rd, but the culture was very small, which was the onset of it. But never the less had to be treated.
Then she's on the vascular meds as well, which she has to stay on. The other two above she can come off on Wednesday actually.

 

[Hawk12237]

A week ago today when poppers had her last big episode, I actually thought I was going to be saying good bye to her.
She lay on her side, eyes half closed, unable to hold head up. She looked limp. Now a week later, and constant monitoring her, and letting meds work, she is darn near as good as before all this happened.
I can't tell you just how pleased I am. I've never lost a bird yet, ( apart from old age and age related issues) I'm very happy with her progess.
This was taken a few minutes ago...she's finally eating and drinking on her own.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

What a scary, long week you all have had! I couldn’t view your photo, but I’m so glad she’s doing so well!

 

[Hankmacaw]

Remember everyone, Poppers had a fungal infection and is not on an antibiotic. She is taking Fluconazole. a mild-mannered antifungal medication. Medicating fungal infections generally takes longer than bacterial infections due to the fungus' ability to produce spores which can take awhile to "hatch".


So Mike. I wonder if it is wise to cut down on her fungal medication?

 

[Hawk12237]

Remember everyone, Poppers had a fungal infection and is not on an antibiotic. She is taking Fluconazole. a mild-mannered antifungal medication. Medicating fungal infections generally takes longer than bacterial infections due to the fungus' ability to produce spores which can take awhile to "hatch".


So Mike. I wonder if it is wise to cut down on her fungal medication?

Currently still has about a day, two at most left on the Nystatin. And about another week on the metoclopramide. Vet wants her to finish the meds...to be safe from the fungal spores.
But such improvements in her last 3 days.
I'm pleased with her progress. Her appetite has come back too! Not a skinny bird any more.
Whew....what as scare she put me thru.!