Road blocks in taming

[RedCarpetEclectus]

I have an adult male Frillback pigeon whom I rescued. His previous owner did not want his birds anymore so he let them go and left, this one wouldnt leave so I ended up with the sweet heart.

I began taming excersises using negative reinforcement, as positive reinforcement would not work with this bird. He is really frightened of any movements however I have made progress.

He came in poor condition and treating him for mites and worms was stressful for him, and his treatment made taming and bonding difficult and I am not sure how to make sure he knows he cam trist me after having to spray him with mite spray, etc. I am farmiliar with bird training however it is the first frightened untamed bird I have worked with.

Any tips??

 

[msplantladi]

Time & patience's-bless you for stepping up for this little guy.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

Hi and welcome to the forum! I'm so glad you could take in and care for this poor bird. It would probably be helpful for us to know what training techniques you have tried so far and how the bird reacted.

 

[JLcribber]

I began taming excersises using negative reinforcement, as positive reinforcement would not work with this bird. He is really frightened of any movements however I have made progress.

I don't care what kind of animal it is. If you do something completely wrong you can't expect it to work.

You will do whatever I want you to do if I beat you with a stick long enough. You will hate me and not be very happy but you're going to do it.

Wouldn't you rather I asked you to do things and even pay you for them?

The parrot trust account.

 

[Tiel Feathers]

This was what I was getting at, I just wanted to understand what negative reinforcement means to you. Positive reinforcement is always the way to go.

 

[RedCarpetEclectus]

This was what I was getting at, I just wanted to understand what negative reinforcement means to you. Positive reinforcement is always the way to go.

I know it sounds bad, however I did not intimidate or scare him into doing what i wanted. 'Negative reinforcement' meanstaking something that is uncomfortable to the animal away, hence the reinforcement. It is not punishment. 'Positive reinforcement' is giving the animal something he likes for doing a desired behaviour. Since he is so frigtened, he will not accept any treats or praise from me.
Instead, I used negatove reinforcement. I gave him his twice daily feeds and sat quietly until he ate or displayed calming behaviours and then moved away, (the negative reinforcement being me taking away the uncomfortableness of my prescence to let him know i am trust worthy). It was hard however with me having to catch him to tray him for mites, which meant our progress went backwards. I just am not sure if I need to add somehing to my training after these stressful events for him.

 

[RedCarpetEclectus]

The parrot trust account. [/QUOTE]

I don't care what kind of animal it is. If you do something completely wrong you can't expect it to work.

You will do whatever I want you to do if I beat you with a stick long enough. You will hate me and not be very happy but you're going to do it.

Wouldn't you rather I asked you to do things and even pay you for them?

The parrot trust account.

As I said to Tiel Feathers, negative reinforcement is not a punishment, rather it is the act of taking away (negative) something that makes the animal unconfortable to reward them for displaying the behaviour (reinforcement). Such as taking away your prescence when the animal displays relaxe behaviour.

The approach in your reply is known as positive punishment - being hitting me woth a stick - for example yelling at a dog when it presents a behaviour you dont like (positive meaning giving the consequence and punishment means it is something that makes the animal feel bad).

There are four training types like this: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment

 

[Lodah]

I am not sure if John was suggesting that you used punishment as a way of training your bird... rather than warning you of the bad side affects of any type of negative behavioral training! I don't think that anyone here hasn't inadvertently used or is guilty of not using some form of negative behavioral training while trying to do the right thing with their fids! It's just that positive reinforcement if used correctly has far greater benefits for both the trainer and trainee! (Sorry, the teacher coming out in me). Perhaps if you let us know what you are trying to achieve with your fid... there would be more advice and helping hints to assist you!

 

[RedCarpetEclectus]

I am not sure if John was suggesting that you used punishment as a way of training your bird... rather than warning you of the bad side affects of any type of negative behavioral training! I don't think that anyone here hasn't inadvertently used or is guilty of not using some form of negative behavioral training while trying to do the right thing with their fids! It's just that positive reinforcement if used correctly has far greater benefits for both the trainer and trainee! (Sorry, the teacher coming out in me). Perhaps if you let us know what you are trying to achieve with your fid... there would be more advice and helping hints to assist you!

Well ultimately I would like to be able to handle him, or at least get him comfortable when I am moving around him for a start.

 

[JLcribber]

The parrot trust account.

As I said to Tiel Feathers, negative reinforcement is not a punishment, rather it is the act of taking away (negative) something that makes the animal unconfortable to reward them for displaying the behaviour (reinforcement). Such as taking away your prescence when the animal displays relaxe behaviour.

The approach in your reply is known as positive punishment - being hitting me woth a stick - for example yelling at a dog when it presents a behaviour you dont like (positive meaning giving the consequence and punishment means it is something that makes the animal feel bad).

There are four training types like this: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment

You're quite correct about the "types" of training. You can not use negative "anything" with a rescue bird you do not know and who does not know, trust or respect "you". The birds world has been turned upside down and as far as the bird knows you are the cause of this whole situation (which you are). You're creating your own roadblocks.

You can not train a parrot to like you. You must "earn" that birds love, trust and respect. That takes time, patience and nothing but "positive" interaction. There is no shortcut. You can reasonably expect it to take about a year for you to reach that level in your relationship. Everything is done on the birds timetable, not yours. One step at a time and you can not take a step until the bird gives you a step.

"IF" at some point in your journey, after you have established that relationship and the bird starts to exhibit real "problem" behaviour you can use negative reinforcement to help correct it. Although that is not necessary either because usually a change in environment or the way you handle them solves the same problem.

Read the article my friend.

 

[RedCarpetEclectus]

You're quite correct about the "types" of training. You can not use negative "anything" with a rescue bird you do not know and who does not know, trust or respect "you". The birds world has been turned upside down and as far as the bird knows you are the cause of this whole situation (which you are). You're creating your own roadblocks.

You can not train a parrot to like you. You must "earn" that birds love, trust and respect. That takes time, patience and nothing but "positive" interaction. There is no shortcut. You can reasonably expect it to take about a year for you to reach that level in your relationship. Everything is done on the birds timetable, not yours. One step at a time and you can not take a step until the bird gives you a step.

"IF" at some point in your journey, after you have established that relationship and the bird starts to exhibit real "problem" behaviour you can use negative reinforcement to help correct it. Although that is not necessary either because usually a change in environment or the way you handle them solves the same problem.

Read the article my friend.

Since he is so frightened, he will not accept any treats or praise from me, so using any form of positive reinforcement is going to stress him out. My voice, any movement, treats or touch simply will not work with him at this stage. Later on, yes, but he is not a parrot. He doesnt bite or show aggression it is simply fear.
Negative reinforcement is not making the animal feel bad as it means in the enlish language. It is waiting quietly until he feels comfortable enough to preen or eat, etc and i reward him by moving away. The article does provide valuable information however my situation is different, and giving rewards used in positive reinforcement will not work. The word 'negative' does not mean bad in terms of animal training, it just means 'taking away' such as removing something that makes the animal feel uncomfortable when they display a desired behaviour (in my case it is my presence). I understand where you, and the article, are coming from but it simply cant be used with this particular bird at the moment, which is what i have been trying to explain.
I am not punishing him for anything, however to make him healthy and comfortable in the beginning I had to restrain him to treat him for his issues (mites and worms) so my original question was if I should continue how i am training or add something to my method.