I need some advice... please :-)

[Marina Engan]

Hi everybody!

I have a question considering mutations.
I have a few WFL males and I am going to buy some girls for them. What mutation should I buy when I want to get White Faced Pearl Pied or White Faced Pied?
I am starting to learn genetics, but this one I can't figure out.
My WFL are solid WFL. No Splits at all.
I would be grateful for any advice you can give.

Have a great day!

 

[expressmailtome]

If the males truly have no splits, it is not possible. Pearl is a sex-linked mutation, so in order for any offspring to be visually pearl, the male must be either visually, or split to, pearl.

 

[Marina Engan]

If the males truly have no splits, it is not possible. Pearl is a sex-linked mutation, so in order for any offspring to be visually pearl, the male must be either visually, or split to, pearl.

Hmmm.... too bad!
Do you have any advice on what I can pair them with to get some color in... Is it possible with something else than grey?

 

[expressmailtome]

I am not positive, however @Monica may know.

 

[Monica]

Do you know their genetic history by any chance??? i.e. both parents were WFL? And their grandparents were also WFL?

It's possible that they could be visual or split something else without you being aware, but we'd need to look at their genetic history.


If that's unknown, have any of them reproduced before? Such as... if you paired one to a normal grey hen, would they produce normal and lutino offspring?


Do you have a black light by any chance??? Or can you get one?



Matt is correct in regards to the mutations. In order to get visual pearl offspring, the male, at minimum, needs to be carrying the pearl mutation. In order to get any pied offspring, *BOTH* parents must carry the mutation.

Here's some more info and calculators as well.
Mutations - Just Cockatiels!
Virtual Breeder | Cockatiel Color Palette
Genetic Calculator 1.3 Cockatiels

For the last one males are 1.0 and females are 0.1.

 

[Marina Engan]

I am not positive, however @Monica may know.

 

[Marina Engan]

Do you know their genetic history by any chance??? i.e. both parents were WFL? And their grandparents were also WFL?

It's possible that they could be visual or split something else without you being aware, but we'd need to look at their genetic history.


If that's unknown, have any of them reproduced before? Such as... if you paired one to a normal grey hen, would they produce normal and lutino offspring?


Do you have a black light by any chance??? Or can you get one?



Matt is correct in regards to the mutations. In order to get visual pearl offspring, the male, at minimum, needs to be carrying the pearl mutation. In order to get any pied offspring, *BOTH* parents must carry the mutation.

Here's some more info and calculators as well.
Mutations - Just Cockatiels!
Virtual Breeder | Cockatiel Color Palette
Genetic Calculator 1.3 Cockatiels

For the last one males are 1.0 and females are 0.1.

I only know the parents and they are WFL. One pair have reproduced before, but that was WFL on WFL, so they only got WFL.
One male has not reproduced before.
One female has reproduced before with a Pied. They got WFL and Pied I think. I have to ask the previous owner again. I have taken over these tiels from a breeder who were unable to keep them.
So I have:
2 WFL males (White Face on White Face)
3 WFL females (White Face on White Face)
1 Lutino Pearl female (White Face on Pearl)
1 Lutino Split to Pied male (Lutino on Pied)
1 Lutino Pearl Split to White Face male(Lutino Pearl on Lutino White Face)
1 Pied Split to Pearl male(Pearl on Pied)
1 Pied Pearl male(background unknown)
1 Cinnamon White Face male(White Face on Lutino)
1 White Face male(background unknown)
1 white Face female(background unknown)

I am unable to download the Color Palette and I find it difficult to fill in the 1.3 Cockatiels. I am beginning to get a grip on it, but not with the WFL males. And believe it or not I have translated Carolyns work into Swedish(to publish on my website), and still don't understand... But I think it is because I translated a lot of documents in a very short time, so I have to go back and study each one thoroughly without being influenced by another study.
I have planned to buy a couple of girls this week-end, that's why I asked for help. I won't be able to learn enough in one day :-D

At least I know now what's needed to get Pearl and Pied Thanks a lot! It's fantastic how helpful the participants here on AA are. I have gotten a lot of help in another question earlier and were overwhelmed by the response. i love it when people are willing to help and to share knowledge.

ps. I have a learning disability due to an illness so it takes time for me to learn, so I apologize for the amount of information I gave here... I'm trying to learn to understand the genetics of my flock

 

[Monica]

Then it's possible that the WFL are split or visual pieds. You *might* be able to see this with a black light. I know for a fact that Pearl WFL have spots and they would be easier to see with a black light, however I'm not sure if pied would show up... then again, you have split pied, light pied, medium pied and heavy/clear pied... so it could also depend on the amount of "piedness" in a bird...

Seems like you are learning pretty well! What part are you having difficulty on with the genetic calculator?

 

[Marina Engan]

Then it's possible that the WFL are split or visual pieds. You *might* be able to see this with a black light. I know for a fact that Pearl WFL have spots and they would be easier to see with a black light, however I'm not sure if pied would show up... then again, you have split pied, light pied, medium pied and heavy/clear pied... so it could also depend on the amount of "piedness" in a bird...

Seems like you are learning pretty well! What part are you having difficulty on with the genetic calculator?

Thank you
What is a "black light" and where can I buy it?
And what do I see if they are Split to Pied or Pearl?
My problem is that I don't understand the different boxes... When it is a WFL, do I fill in both ino (SE) and Blue White Face? And I can't find Normal Grey... (I have only used it the past two days, so it's all new to me... I don't understand all the (SE) cd and so on)

 

[Marina Engan]

I have to say that this is the best forum I have seen :-D

 

[Monica]

From the bottom of the calculator. (highlighted in red - kind of a "No Duh!" kind of thing! Don't worry if you have that moment! I did too!)

re - Autosomal Recessive, se - Sex-linked Recessive,
do - Autosomal Dominant, in - Autosomal Incomlete Dominant,
cd - Co-Dominant,
L - multi alleles

Yes. If a bird is visually "Albino", you would indicate the cockatiel is "ino" and "blue (whiteface)".

"Normal Grey" would be blank. You wouldn't fill in any dots because the bird isn't a visual or split anything. If you have a normal grey split pied, then you would of course fill in the "splits to" for pied.


If it makes it any easier.... Male in blue Female in dark purple. The green box is visuals only. Split to pied or pearl would be either X1 or X2. If you don't know, doesn't matter much. If the mother was a pearl pied, father was a normal, then a male chick would be normal split X2 Pearl Pied. If the father was a visual pied, mother a pearl, then a male chick would be normal split X1 pied and X2 pearl.

df = Double Factor
sf = Single Factor

Double and Single factor are probably irrelevant to you as you probably don't have any dominant silver cockatiels in your flock, so you can ignore those.

 

[Marina Engan]

From the bottom of the calculator. (highlighted in red - kind of a "No Duh!" kind of thing! Don't worry if you have that moment! I did too!)

re - Autosomal Recessive, se - Sex-linked Recessive,
do - Autosomal Dominant, in - Autosomal Incomlete Dominant,
cd - Co-Dominant,
L - multi alleles

Yes. If a bird is visually "Albino", you would indicate the cockatiel is "ino" and "blue (whiteface)".

"Normal Grey" would be blank. You wouldn't fill in any dots because the bird isn't a visual or split anything. If you have a normal grey split pied, then you would of course fill in the "splits to" for pied.


If it makes it any easier.... Male in blue Female in dark purple. The green box is visuals only. Split to pied or pearl would be either X1 or X2. If you don't know, doesn't matter much. If the mother was a pearl pied, father was a normal, then a male chick would be normal split X2 Pearl Pied. If the father was a visual pied, mother a pearl, then a male chick would be normal split X1 pied and X2 pearl.

df = Double Factor
sf = Single Factor

Double and Single factor are probably irrelevant to you as you probably don't have any dominant silver cockatiels in your flock, so you can ignore those.


View attachment 245777

OH! Thanks a lot!!
What a job you have done! I really appreciate it
I'm going to copy it and put it in my "notes". All that seems interesting to me, I put in a document so that I can easily find it again.
You are great! :-D

 

[expressmailtome]

Here is a link to a description of a black light: Blacklight - Wikipedia .

 

[Monica]

Thank you Matt! Forgot about the black light comment!


I have two pictures of a young DNA sexed male lutino under a black light. Because of the black light, it is clear that he is a young bird because he still has the female coloration. I didn't take the pictures, though!

In certain species and mutations, it can make sexing birds easier as a certain gender might glow better under a black light. (this is apparently true for lutino pacific parrotlets?)



Since birds can see fluorescent light, some birds have fluorescent feathers. Normal budgies and cockatiels are fluorescent. Blue/grey mutations are not. I don't have any good photos... but I do have a picture of 2 green budgies and 2 blue budgies. You can clearly see how the green budgies light up more!

Here's an article about how one species of owl "lights up" under a UV light!

BirdFellow - Birding services, social networking, and habitat conservation


And an image which shows the difference of what humans see vs what birds see. It's fascinating!

 

[Marina Engan]

Here is a link to a description of a black light: Blacklight - Wikipedia .

Thank you!

 

[Marina Engan]

Thank you Matt! Forgot about the black light comment!


I have two pictures of a young DNA sexed male lutino under a black light. Because of the black light, it is clear that he is a young bird because he still has the female coloration. I didn't take the pictures, though!

In certain species and mutations, it can make sexing birds easier as a certain gender might glow better under a black light. (this is apparently true for lutino pacific parrotlets?)



Since birds can see fluorescent light, some birds have fluorescent feathers. Normal budgies and cockatiels are fluorescent. Blue/grey mutations are not. I don't have any good photos... but I do have a picture of 2 green budgies and 2 blue budgies. You can clearly see how the green budgies light up more!

Here's an article about how one species of owl "lights up" under a UV light!

BirdFellow - Birding services, social networking, and habitat conservation


And an image which shows the difference of what humans see vs what birds see. It's fascinating!

WOW! It's incredible! What a beautiful colorful world they have

 

[Monica]

Not sure if you are aware, but there is a +Quote link that you can use if you want to quote multiple people at once. After you choose the posts you want to quote, there will be an extra "Insert Quotes..." button that shows up on the left, below the reply box, opposite of Post Reply button.

 

[Marina Engan]

Not sure if you are aware, but there is a +Quote link that you can use if you want to quote multiple people at once. After you choose the posts you want to quote, there will be an extra "Insert Quotes..." button that shows up on the left, below the reply box, opposite of Post Reply button.

I have to take a good look, because I didn't find it now. But thank you. I am glad for all advice I can get

 

[Marina Engan]

Can somebody help me interpret this... What will I get? Like the first one... Male grey, but what about Pied? Is it Split to Pied? What does the / and () mean?

 

[Marina Engan]

I have made this in order to get a better overview of my flocks mutations and Splits