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Help With giving parakeet Aloe Vera Gel and Milk Thistle

Ripshod

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Has anyone mentioned probiotics? Antibiotics kill off the natural gut flora leaving small birds somewhat defencless again invading bacteria. So we often see recurrences like this. Probiotics replace the lost natural gut bacteria providing protection against reinfection, should really be given after any antibiotics.
 

redrose27

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I'm sorry she's had such a hard time with the infections. Outside of her favoring her feet ( both or just one) what is her activity level, does she utilize all the space in her cage, have any outside of cage fly time. Budgies are normally active playful little birds but she is an elderly lady with legs/feet that hurt. I just wondered what her behavior was like. Do you thoroughly wash her water cup every day and keep her food cups fresh and clean? Remove any other fresh vegetables after an hour or two? ( eliminating sources of bacteria). If she seems like a content bird, fairly active but favoring her feet then work on the perches. You can look at her feet better than any of us can through photos. We can't say what her problem is or if it is bumblefoot. If everything else is fine with her and it's only the issue with the feet/legs then it should be a less expensive vet visit ... ask for a quote before treatments.

What was the Phenobarbital for?

This is a long video... 15 minutes but is pretty thorough about budgie feet and bumblefoot.

The phenobarbital was for seizures and other than her feet shes peeing way too much and is constantly sleepy now after throwing up yesterday (10th). Shes normally sleepy but playfull really early in the morning and sprratically through out the day then napping. but after throwing up shes just sleepy. Im worried its gout. Im going to see if I can go behind my parents backs and get her to the vet on the 12th.
 

redrose27

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Has anyone mentioned probiotics? Antibiotics kill off the natural gut flora leaving small birds somewhat defencless again invading bacteria. So we often see recurrences like this. Probiotics replace the lost natural gut bacteria providing protection against reinfection, should really be given after any antibiotics.
No one mentioned probiotics the vet never gave me any and I didnt know I was supposed to give probiotics after antibiotics. I only learned this after doing research myself. The vet never mentioned them or suggested them.
 

Azor

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No one mentioned probiotics the vet never gave me any and I didnt know I was supposed to give probiotics after antibiotics. I only learned this after doing research myself. The vet never mentioned them or suggested them.
Some disorders leading to seizure may be primary such as tumors, infections (bacterial, Chlamydophila, viral or fungal), heat stroke or trauma (such as flying accidents). Secondary disorders include reproductive problems, metabolic disorders, nutritional deficiencies or imbalances and toxic events.

I don't think she ever got healthy from whatever she had, obviously she should have medication during a longer time or more concentrated. How long did she get the meds? Such meds must be given trough syringe (orally) and you need to make sure she swallows it, it cant be diluted in water. if not the infection wont go away and she will only improve temporarily. I am almost sure this is the case.

she needs medication, no holistic treatment can deal with a bacterial infection.
 

redrose27

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Some disorders leading to seizure may be primary such as tumors, infections (bacterial, Chlamydophila, viral or fungal), heat stroke or trauma (such as flying accidents). Secondary disorders include reproductive problems, metabolic disorders, nutritional deficiencies or imbalances and toxic events.

I don't think she ever got healthy from whatever she had, obviously she should have medication during a longer time or more concentrated. How long did she get the meds? Such meds must be given trough syringe (orally) and you need to make sure she swallows it, it cant be diluted in water. if not the infection wont go away and she will only improve temporarily. I am almost sure this is the case.

she needs medication, no holistic treatment can deal with a bacterial infection.
Each time she had the meds they lasted from the least beging flagyl (10 days) to the longest medication being taken 25 days possibly 30 If I'm wrong. I gave then all as instructed orally and even gave them to her for extra days to make up for the times it didn't land in her mouth. (the vet said this was fine to do). The seizures went away she just kept getting infections probably because she didnt take probiotics after the antibiotics
 

Hankmacaw

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Not so much that she didn't have probiotics, but that her immune system is suppressed.

Probiotics would be good for her, though.
 

redrose27

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Not so much that she didn't have probiotics, but that her immune system is suppressed.

Probiotics would be good for her, though.
What do you mean her immune system was supressed? Shes not taking phenobarbital anymore and she wasn't before unless she had a seizure.
 

Hankmacaw

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Immunity is a bird's ability to fight disease. If the bird has been on a bad diet for a period of time, had infections - fungal, viral or bacterial - their immune system will not be sufficient. If a bird has a metabolic disease - liver disease, heart problems, kidney issues..... - their immune system will be suppressed.

"Immune suppression describes a loss of immune function. It can occur for many reasons, including disease, medication, surgery, age or genetics."


.
Overview
The physiology and immune system of birds resembles that of other animals. The lymphomyeloid tissues develop from epithelial or mesenchymal anlages that are full of haematopoetic cells.[3] The bursa fabricus, thymus, spleen and lymph nodes all develop when haematopoetic stem cells enter the bursal or thymic anlages and become competent B and T cells.[4] The avian immune system is divided into two types of immunity, the innate and adaptive ones. The innate immune system includes physical and chemical barriers, blood proteins and phagocytic cells. In addition, complement serum proteins, which are a part of the innate immune system, work with antibodies to lyse target cell. Adaptive immunity, on the other hand, kicks in when the innate system fails to stop invading pathogens. The adaptive response includes targeted recognition of specific molecular features on the surface of the pathogen. Birds, like other animals, have B cells, T cells and humoral immunity as part of their adaptive response.[5]
 

redrose27

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Immunity is a bird's ability to fight disease. If the bird has been on a bad diet for a period of time, had infections - fungal, viral or bacterial - their immune system will not be sufficient. If a bird has a metabolic disease - liver disease, heart problems, kidney issues..... - their immune system will be suppressed.

"Immune suppression describes a loss of immune function. It can occur for many reasons, including disease, medication, surgery, age or genetics."


.
Overview
The physiology and immune system of birds resembles that of other animals. The lymphomyeloid tissues develop from epithelial or mesenchymal anlages that are full of haematopoetic cells.[3] The bursa fabricus, thymus, spleen and lymph nodes all develop when haematopoetic stem cells enter the bursal or thymic anlages and become competent B and T cells.[4] The avian immune system is divided into two types of immunity, the innate and adaptive ones. The innate immune system includes physical and chemical barriers, blood proteins and phagocytic cells. In addition, complement serum proteins, which are a part of the innate immune system, work with antibodies to lyse target cell. Adaptive immunity, on the other hand, kicks in when the innate system fails to stop invading pathogens. The adaptive response includes targeted recognition of specific molecular features on the surface of the pathogen. Birds, like other animals, have B cells, T cells and humoral immunity as part of their adaptive response.[5]
Considering she has so many infections and medications that might be another reason why she kept getting ill. Along with probiotics what can a vet perscribe to help the immune system. Is there anything that can reverse its suppression or undo the suppression. I want to know what I should tell the vet so her immune system will be supported.
 

Hankmacaw

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A great diet with very little saturated fats and no sugar (sugar feeds fungal infections and metabolizes straight to fat). You must learn to read labels closely and look up nutritional facts.

There is this too. I used it for years on Jasper, but there is no way for me to measure it's effectiveness.

 

redrose27

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Update: Took kony to the vet and my mom didn't argue. Turns out she has arthridus in her knee and she has gout. We got medicine for the gout as for the arthridus I wraped her perches with fleece so now they are soft and plush for her to walk on. Her flat perches are still being made (I got them from a vendor here so it will take a while).
 

Azor

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Update: Took kony to the vet and my mom didn't argue. Turns out she has arthridus in her knee and she has gout. We got medicine for the gout as for the arthridus I wraped her perches with fleece so now they are soft and plush for her to walk on. Her flat perches are still being made (I got them from a vendor here so it will take a while).
Lets hope she gets better, she is a fighter!
 

Lady Jane

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Ii have severe arthritis also so i understand how much pain little birdie can have. Now that you have medication hole she is more comfortable.
 

redrose27

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Ii have severe arthritis also so i understand how much pain little birdie can have. Now that you have medication hole she is more comfortable.
Yea the vet gave me a medication for the gout, we want to give her probiotics after she finishes it. As for the arthridus (sorry if I keep spelling this wrong) he didnt give me any medicine for it since considering her medical history the gout could have been brought on by the medications. And its only in her knee. So with the medicine for the gout the swelling should go away and If I see that her leg or more specifically her knee is causing her any pain then ill ask for medicine to help relive the pain if there is any. As for the gout there were 2 options. One has a chance that she would throw it up and I said no to it since she has a history with throwing up. The other had a small chance of not being effective or in other words not working. Hopefully it works and the swelling will go down I was wondering if anyone here has experience with the medicine its labeled Nutritional Complex for gout. I cant find any fancy name for it. It comes in a grey/dull brown powder and you mix it with water.
 

Hankmacaw

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I'm surprised that your vet did not give you bird Alopurinol for the gout. I is generally the go to medication for gout.
 

Greylady1966

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I don't understand how treating the gout and not the arthritis will help the pain. Does your vet think if the gout is treated the arthritis won't be a problem? Maybe I'm confused.
 

redrose27

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I'm surprised that your vet did not give you bird Alopurinol for the gout. I is generally the go to medication for gout.
That was probably the other option Im going to call Monday to ask about it since they are closed now. If anything I can ask for it and just drive by and pick it up. (I have a learners permit so as long as I tell my dad I will drive he won't mind or get annoyed since I never practice so he will take any excuse to have me drive.) Im gonna ask if the herbal complex should still be given or not since he did see liver inflamation and I belive the medicine you named and the one he gave me both cover that. Im gonna ask him all about it on Monday (They are closed Sunday's).
 

redrose27

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I don't understand how treating the gout and not the arthritis will help the pain. Does your vet think if the gout is treated the arthritis won't be a problem? Maybe I'm confused.
The gout is causing her foot to be swollen thus she wont put weight on it. Its mainly the gout causing the foot issue. The arthritis is not severe its only in the knee. The gout is really what is causing the discomfort. Cobsidering my limited budget and her history im trying not to give her too many medications if I don't have to.
 

Azor

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Anti-inflammatory (thinking of Meloxicam, hitting 2 birds with 1 stone) medicine shouldn't be a problem, she is an old bird and might benefit from Meloxicam.
This is a very good medicine vs the arthritis. If they haven't done an ex-ray of her there is no way to know the underlying cause (can be tumours, not very uncommon in a 12 y old bird). Anyway i wish u and your fighting brave bird good luck!

Here is a very deep paper on her condition if you want to reed.
Clinical Management of Avian Renal Disease
Clinical Management of Avian Renal Disease (nih.gov).
 

Birdyhelp1

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Hi im not sure if this is the right place to put this but I suspect that my parakeet has gout. Her foot is swolen and she wont use it much and I cant take her to the vet so now im trying to figure out this medicine stuff. I found out I can give her aloe vera but we dont have that plant nor can we find it the only thing I can find for her is aloe vera GEL. I heard we have to water down aloe vera but Im not sure how to water it down or the specifics I have ZERO clue how to do any of this please help I need to give her aloe vera or milk thistle anything as soon as possible but I have no clue where to get milk thistle from or even how to feed it to her. I dont know how to water down aloe vera gel I dont understand any of this please I just need an explination. Shes 12 years old and it may be due to use of antibiotics because she had 3 baterial infections in 2020. I didnt know about holistic alternatives untill now. So does anyone know how to give a parakeet aloe vera and if the aloe vera gel can be rubbed onto her feet to help with the swelling.
Hi im not sure if this is the right place to put this but I suspect that my parakeet has gout. Her foot is swolen and she wont use it much and I cant take her to the vet so now im trying to figure out this medicine stuff. I found out I can give her aloe vera but we dont have that plant nor can we find it the only thing I can find for her is aloe vera GEL. I heard we have to water down aloe vera but Im not sure how to water it down or the specifics I have ZERO clue how to do any of this please help I need to give her aloe vera or milk thistle anything as soon as possible but I have no clue where to get milk thistle from or even how to feed it to her. I dont know how to water down aloe vera gel I dont understand any of this please I just need an explination. Shes 12 years old and it may be due to use of antibiotics because she had 3 baterial infections in 2020. I didnt know about holistic alternatives untill now. So does anyone know how to give a parakeet aloe vera and if the aloe vera gel can be rubbed onto her feet to help with the swelling.
Hi I hope I’m not late to this. But instead of buying pure aloe Vera you can buy this:

and this


You can give your bird a little bit of the aloe Vera in the link I sent you, with a syringe. Also for the tea, you boil it and give a little bit, of course when it’s cooled to room temperature. These are herbal remedies but I’m not sure it’ll specifically target gout.
You can also try websites where they have online vet advice. If they give you advice on bird products to buy to treat your bird, you can check out: www.allbirdproducts.com

This is another website that explains some remedies that can help.

And here are some I found for gout treatment:


I do suggest to give your bird the aloe Vera link I sent you, even if he does get better, at least once a week as a detox. It’s good to prevent future health problems. I really wish your parents would understand and let you carry him to the vet. Hopefully you can get through with an online vet. Your birdy is in my prayers, and I really hope he recovers from this and gets better. Let me know if you have any questions! Keep researching and don’t give up and give him as much love as you can
 
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