Help With giving parakeet Aloe Vera Gel and Milk Thistle

[camelotshadow]

Can't really tell from photos but don't see swollen. Maybe a joint could be enlarged?
12 years could have arthritis. Maybe someone can suggest things for older birds like diet supplements.

We are not vets so we can only generalize.

Maybe since you can get a photo pf the right leg & the left leg together so any difference can be more easily seen.

Your bird is elderly & we don't want them to be in pain. If they are favoring a leg or foot then most likely its is bothering them.

Sad your parents are putting you & your bird through this so do your best.

 

[redrose27]

Can't really tell from photos but don't see swollen. Maybe a joint could be enlarged?
12 years could have arthritis. Maybe someone can suggest things for older birds like diet supplements.

We are not vets so we can only generalize.

Maybe since you can get a photo pf the right leg & the left leg together so any difference can be more easily seen.

Your bird is elderly & we don't want them to be in pain. If they are favoring a leg or foot then most likely its is bothering them.

Sad your parents are putting you & your bird through this so do your best.

here are some photos of underneath the foot that's swollen sorry if they are not the best. Note that she is under a red heat lamp made for birds (I got it form the avian vet) So there is a red hue to the photos.

 

[camelotshadow]

Sorry still can;t see but be careful with lighting. I guess if it came from an avian vet its OK. In general you have to be careful of heat lamps & make sure they not harmful.

A nice natural wood perch or two would be easier on the legs & feet.

 

[Sunni Tiel]

It looks like you only have dowel rods for perches, you will want to get different shapes, textures and sizes of natural wood perches and rope perches. This will provide exercise and help with arthritis, platform perches help as well. You have an adorable budgie!

 

[redrose27]

It looks like you only have dowel rods for perches, you will want to get different shapes, textures and sizes of natural wood perches and rope perches. This will provide exercise and help with arthritis, platform perches help as well. You have an adorable budgie!

thank you. do you happen to have any good examples of perches, the platform one sounds like the type that flat that she can lay on. Also is it possible to use a clear glass bowl to give her a bath or should i get a stainless steel bowl?

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

It's impossible to see if she has wounds on the bottom of her feet with the heat lamp on. Please re-do the photos as clearly as you can otherwise we won't be able to see what condition her feet may be in. And, @Sunni Tiel is correct... if your bird has only had the same size dowel perches for her entire life with you I would suspect foot and leg issues because of it. She needs to have a variety of perches with varying thicknesses including a platform perch to rest on. I'll tag @Ripshod to show you some examples. Does she bathe at all.. most birds will take a bath in their water cup but a nice bowl ( stainless works) that has ample space for a decent splash bath will do.

 

[camelotshadow]

Seriously Nutz - Chunky Basswood Platform Perch - Natural Flat Perches that are cut thick

www.seriouslynutz.com

My birds love a platform. Especially for bedtime.

Seriously Nutz - Small Java Wood Perch - Small Diameter Full Length Parrot Bird Perches

www.seriouslynutz.com

 

[Sunni Tiel]

thank you. do you happen to have any good examples of perches, the platform one sounds like the type that flat that she can lay on. Also is it possible to use a clear glass bowl to give her a bath or should i get a stainless steel bowl?

My Sunni is scared of bowls with water in them unless they are white and plastic for some reason, were working on that. He will only take a bath from a spray water bottle in his cage, nothing else. A lot of the vendors here have good perches, or you could make your own. (be sure to clean it properly, look it up) Amazon has some good platforms, but not so many great perches.

 

[Ripshod]

Platform perches are a great idea. You don't need to get new perches though. If you've got a box cutter (stanley knife) you can carefully thin those perches down and give them a random shape, then sand them to remove any sharp edges. If she does have sores on her feet you can also wrap the shaped perches with vet wrap (steroban) to take pressure off her feet while they're sore.

 

[redrose27]

It's impossible to see if she has wounds on the bottom of her feet with the heat lamp on. Please re-do the photos as clearly as you can otherwise we won't be able to see what condition her feet may be in. And, @Sunni Tiel is correct... if your bird has only had the same size dowel perches for her entire life with you I would suspect foot and leg issues because of it. She needs to have a variety of perches with varying thicknesses including a platform perch to rest on. I'll tag @Ripshod to show you some examples. Does she bathe at all.. most birds will take a bath in their water cup but a nice bowl ( stainless works) that has ample space for a decent splash bath will do.

here are some better photos of under her feet without the red light. Thanks to everyone who commented Im definietly going to get her a variety of perches and a platform perch and im going to see if I can wrap some perches like @Ripshod said.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

here are some better photos of under her feet without the red light. Thanks to everyone who commented Im definietly going to get her a variety of perches and a platform perch and im going to see if I can wrap some perches like @Ripshod said.

Thank you for the extra photos. It's much more clear she has sores on the bottom of her feet and would benefit from some softer surfaces to sit on as well as different size diameters. In the beginning of your post you mentioned she had three bacterial infections in 2020... did you take her to the vet? If you have an established vet I would still encourage you to take her in and have the vet examine her feet for a true diagnosis which would lead you to the correct medication to make her life much more comfortable if she needs any.

 

[redrose27]

Update: I tried getting milk thistle and its sold out in a lot of places but I found this herbal mix by the same company that makes the milk thistle and I wanted to know if anyone here thinks its ok to give to my budgie. Yesterday she threw up like crazy after giving her spinach so I called the vet they said its either a bacterial infection or shes dehydrated so i took their advice and gave her sugar water (water with sugar in it) and stoped giving her spinash. And Im not sure if shes sick with a bacterial infection so I wanted to get her something to support her immune system in fighting it off if there is one. This is the product im talking about. So what do you all think about it?

AVIAN HERBAL REMEDIES

AVIAN HERBAL REMEDIES is a compilation of twenty-two fresh, powerful, human grade, USDA Certified Organic Herbs. These herbs greatly enhance your bird's ability to self-medicate by providing a selection of healing ingredients each of which addresses specific illnesses and deficiencies. Herbs...

www.morningbirdproducts.com

Im also adding some pictures of it incase the link does not work. I just want to make sure none of the ingredients are toxic.

 

[Azor]

You can pick branches and clean them (soft branches), my money is on arthritis, it looks like a male. And pick branches that are different sizes. Anti inflammatory meds perhaps ?
Soft wood you can bend also clean the perches regularly. Best of luck!
Trowing up is sign of bacterial infection. You need real medication and a visit to the vet. How can someone stop you from doing this? I don't understand...

 

[redrose27]

You can pick branches and clean them (soft branches), my money is on arthritis, it looks like a male. And pick branches that are different sizes. Anti inflammatory meds perhaps ?
Soft wood you can bend also clean the perches regularly. Best of luck!
Trowing up is sign of bacterial infection. You need real medication and a visit to the vet. How can someone stop you from doing this? I don't understand...

Let me explain so basically in the year 2020 kony had to go to the vet 3 or 4 times (if I recall correctly) one of which she had to stay there over night the reason being because she kept getting sick with bacterial infections and was dehydrated. I made a lot of changes just like the vet advised, bigger cage, safer toys (most come from vendors on here or chewy.com) and I even added carrots to her diet. But the vet visits cost added up and my parents didnt like it and they didnt have the patience to sit there all day outside the vets office waiting for them to finish and regardless of how early we got there we always left last (6pm). And we had to wait outside since no one is allowed inside due to covid. And they hated how every time I called them or something went wrong I would get emotional and sometimes cry (but how could I not cry I was scared for her life). And since she just kept getting sick after medication they didnt want to go to the vet again since we dont see the results we expect. So now they refuse to let me take her to the vet. And I cant exactly disobay them im a freshman in college I live with them I dont have a car and my money is limited to the extra I get from financial aid. And I dont have a job because I have to be a full time student to keep that financial aid money coming. Due to this and covid and my pre existing health conditions I cant get a job so money is limited and my family refuses to pay for the visits since they dont got the money. Honestly I would take her to the vet if I could but my whole family is against it and If I did find a way whoever takes me there would have to stay there the entire day with me. And her condition having been like this since december im not sure if a vet will help. She keeps peeing too much her poop is mostly water now and she sleeps a ton. I wish I could take her to the vet but im not sure if even they can solve these problems if they are just going to keep coming. Honestly I could try giving her antibiotics for general baceria infections but without a vet diagnostics im aftraid the antibiotics will just do more damage since im not sure if her liver or kidney is compromised. The best I can do is call them for advice. I have a friend willing to pay the vet bill for me but I just have no transportation and my family will just be furious with me for accepting that money knowing I can't pay him back. So thats the situation.

 

[Azor]

Let me explain so basically in the year 2020 kony had to go to the vet 3 or 4 times (if I recall correctly) one of which she had to stay there over night the reason being because she kept getting sick with bacterial infections and was dehydrated. I made a lot of changes just like the vet advised, bigger cage, safer toys (most come from vendors on here or chewy.com) and I even added carrots to her diet. But the vet visits cost added up and my parents didnt like it and they didnt have the patience to sit there all day outside the vets office waiting for them to finish and regardless of how early we got there we always left last (6pm). And we had to wait outside since no one is allowed inside due to covid. And they hated how every time I called them or something went wrong I would get emotional and sometimes cry (but how could I not cry I was scared for her life). And since she just kept getting sick after medication they didnt want to go to the vet again since we dont see the results we expect. So now they refuse to let me take her to the vet. And I cant exactly disobay them im a freshman in college I live with them I dont have a car and my money is limited to the extra I get from financial aid. And I dont have a job because I have to be a full time student to keep that financial aid money coming. Due to this and covid and my pre existing health conditions I cant get a job so money is limited and my family refuses to pay for the visits since they dont got the money. Honestly I would take her to the vet if I could but my whole family is against it and If I did find a way whoever takes me there would have to stay there the entire day with me. And her condition having been like this since december im not sure if a vet will help. She keeps peeing too much her poop is mostly water now and she sleeps a ton. I wish I could take her to the vet but im not sure if even they can solve these problems if they are just going to keep coming. Honestly I could try giving her antibiotics for general baceria infections but without a vet diagnostics im aftraid the antibiotics will just do more damage since im not sure if her liver or kidney is compromised. The best I can do is call them for advice. I have a friend willing to pay the vet bill for me but I just have no transportation and my family will just be furious with me for accepting that money knowing I can't pay him back. So thats the situation.

That sux..Whatever you do the result might be the same. I'm so sad for you. I think the polyuria (to much urin in feces) might be more dangerous. Maybe she never got better because she got wrong medication? What antibiotics did she get? Im guessing that is why she was dehydrated in the first place. Here are some basic information that might guide you in the right direction.
Trust your self, you know the bird best.

Link: Polyuria in Birds (petplace.com)

 

[redrose27]

That sux..Whatever you do the result might be the same. I'm so sad for you. I think the polyuria (to much urin in feces) might be more dangerous. Maybe she never got better because she got wrong medication? What antibiotics did she get? Im guessing that is why she was dehydrated in the first place. Here are some basic information that might guide you in the right direction.
Trust your self, you know the bird best.

Link: Polyuria in Birds (petplace.com)

thank you this was very helpful I found multiple things in that article that match whats happening but untill I can figure out how to help her I just want to do the best I can I already ordered new perches for her feet from a vendor on avian avenue but I could not find milk thistle its sold out almost everywhere so that herbal mix is the next best thing do you think its ok for me to feed her that herbal mix I linked you to in the previous reply? I just want to do all I can untill I figure out how to get her to a vet if I even can.

 

[Azor]

thank you this was very helpful I found multiple things in that article that match whats happening but untill I can figure out how to help her I just want to do the best I can I already ordered new perches for her feet from a vendor on avian avenue but I could not find milk thistle its sold out almost everywhere so that herbal mix is the next best thing do you think its ok for me to feed her that herbal mix I linked you to in the previous reply? I just want to do all I can untill I figure out how to get her to a vet if I even can.

I don't know all the herbs. Maybe she wont even try it. Sometimes its better to do nothing untill you know what to do. I cant recommend what i do not know. But if there is nothing to be lost then it might be worth a try. Research each herb-ingredient and if there is nothing to lose go for it? If it ends bad you will @ least feel like you have done all you can. What Im not sure of is the worm-wood (but can be others as well). Maybe vitamin A+B are better and just wait? Best of wishes!

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

I see you are determined to give your bird Milk Thistle. The problem (I see ) is that you don't have a true diagnosis from blood tests done by an Avian Vet to support any reason for giving Milk Thistle. The extract in itself is concentrated to be most effective and the most assured way your bird receives what she needs.... IF... she has liver issues. The dried form you attached may not be consumed by her at all or in an amount that would be of any good. Sure, she can have the Avian Herbal Remedy to snack on in a separate dish but I wouldn't count on it to aid in her current condition. Make the adjustments to her perches as soon as you can.. in the meantime save up for what you can to have her examined. Sadly, many times family members don't support the need for vet visits ( including financial) when they don't equate discomfort or pain in a bird. They suffer pain just like you and I do.. they show it through their actions and behavior changes. It's clear she has discomfort/pain because she doesn't want to use her foot. You did mention in the beginning of your post:
" She has had a bacterial infection and yeast infection and medicine to prevent liver inflammation but that was all in 2020." Can you list those medications... especially what the medicine to prevent liver inflammation?

 

[redrose27]

I see you are determined to give your bird Milk Thistle. The problem (I see ) is that you don't have a true diagnosis from blood tests done by an Avian Vet to support any reason for giving Milk Thistle. The extract in itself is concentrated to be most effective and the most assured way your bird receives what she needs.... IF... she has liver issues. The dried form you attached may not be consumed by her at all or in an amount that would be of any good. Sure, she can have the Avian Herbal Remedy to snack on in a separate dish but I wouldn't count on it to aid in her current condition. Make the adjustments to her perches as soon as you can.. in the meantime save up for what you can to have her examined. Sadly, many times family members don't support the need for vet visits ( including financial) when they don't equate discomfort or pain in a bird. They suffer pain just like you and I do.. they show it through their actions and behavior changes. It's clear she has discomfort/pain because she doesn't want to use her foot. You did mention in the beginning of your post:
" She has had a bacterial infection and yeast infection and medicine to prevent liver inflammation but that was all in 2020." Can you list those medications... especially what the medicine to prevent liver inflammation?

These are the medicine she was taking during 2020 (that I have currently documented) they were not all taken at once obviously. When she finished a medication she would be back to being sick about 2 weeks later. So these medications are all around 2 weeks apart.

Date: 11-09-2020 (she had to stay overnight at the vet)
-fluid therapy
-tube feeding
-Baytril injection
-Flagyl orally
-Herbal complex
-Metoclopramide injection

Date: 09-22-2020
-Phenobarbital

Date: 11-09-2020 (for when she came home)
-Baytril with Diflucan
-Flagyl (oraly)
-herbal complex (for liver inflamation)

These are all I can find that are documented I had to take her to the vet once in october again in november and this was the third time if I recall correctly. I cant find paper documentation to show the medicines but I remember the first time was a bacterial infection the second was a yeast infection and the third I belive was this or I could be wrong and it was only 2 times. Regardless thats what my memory can remember and the cost added up a lot.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

I'm sorry she's had such a hard time with the infections. Outside of her favoring her feet ( both or just one) what is her activity level, does she utilize all the space in her cage, have any outside of cage fly time. Budgies are normally active playful little birds but she is an elderly lady with legs/feet that hurt. I just wondered what her behavior was like. Do you thoroughly wash her water cup every day and keep her food cups fresh and clean? Remove any other fresh vegetables after an hour or two? ( eliminating sources of bacteria). If she seems like a content bird, fairly active but favoring her feet then work on the perches. You can look at her feet better than any of us can through photos. We can't say what her problem is or if it is bumblefoot. If everything else is fine with her and it's only the issue with the feet/legs then it should be a less expensive vet visit ... ask for a quote before treatments.

What was the Phenobarbital for?

This is a long video... 15 minutes but is pretty thorough about budgie feet and bumblefoot.