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Cozzi is having a hard time breathing

cyoungva

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Just want to ask again if you talked to the vet about vetri-DMG? I do think it would be beneficial for Cozzi. My vet recommended this for my very ill bird many years ago and I've used it with other birds as needed.
I did mention it....she wasn’t sure if she’s heard of it before. ‍♂
 

cyoungva

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I'm glad Cozzi is on Voraconazole. @Macawnutz and I both had good results with it. Itraconazole (the second biggest gun in the fungus arsenal) has some very bad side effects - mainly liver damage. Sarah and I both used Voraconazole soon after it came out and neither of us had side effects with our birds.

Even three weeks is a short treatment time for a fungal infection - particularly if it is Aspergillosis. My Hank was on medication and treatment, including nebulization for 6 months - then repeat when the damned stuff came back. Supportive care with Asper is critical. Cozzi must stay warm, he must be hydrated and eat enough to keep his body functioning properly. He will need a lot of rest - sleep.

My nebulizer (a Devilbiss) cost me about $130 at a pharmacy (CVS). Probably the most expensive place you can buy one. Boy they are much cheaper now. They range from $32 - $99. Ask you Dr. what she feels is the best one.

Let me know what goes on.


Can you tell me what medication was used in your nebulizer for Hank?
 

Lady Jane

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Just feed the milk thistle seeds mixed in with other seeds. Oh my gosh we are all so with you and Cozzi.
 

Hankmacaw

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@cyoungva - I'm really sorry, but I can't remember the names of any of the medications I used in the nebulizer and they are all gone. I do remember that for the first four days with one of Jasper's bouts with Asper he prescribed Amphotericin B for the first four days then switched to another med because of the dangers of Amphotericin B.
 

Hankmacaw

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@iamwhoiam is correct. DMG is very helpful with building their immune system, which is something you will need to concentrate on when he gets "well". Jasper is now on DMG for life due to her multitude of chronic health issues (respiratory, and cardiovascular). I have no doubt that it has helped her avoid any infections for a couple of years, although she at one time was going from one infection to another, both fungal and bacterial, until we got her immune system fixed.
 

cyoungva

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Cozzi is still the same. Can you tell me where to order DMG, or share a link for it? I will also start mixing the milk thistle seeds with his other seed. They are really hard, will he be able to crack them? Thanks all!!
 

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Here is the one you should order. It will last a cockatiel a long, long time.

Amazon.com : VetriScience Laboratories - Vetri DMG Liquid, Immune Support for Cats and Dogs, 30 Servings : Pet Antioxidant Nutritional Supplements : Pet Supplies

To be honest with you, I have little to no faith in the effectiveness of Milk Thistle seeds. The liquid is extracted and much stronger and absorbable than the seeds and you have control of the dosage. I don't even know if they will work unless the silymarin (the effective component) is extracted. Be sure you always get the non-alcohol kind.
 
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iamwhoiam

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If you have a 1 ml syringe it's easier to give the DMG especially if your bird likes to bite down on things. I should have known better but I decided to try the dropper with one of my red-bellied parrots. LOL The dropper is now unusable. I also think it's more accurate to get the correct dosage with the syringe. JMHO The dosage is 1 drop per 100 grams of weight and 1 drop is only .05ml. Share the info about the DMG with your vet, btw.
 
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Lady Jane

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The dosage is 1 drop per 100 ml of weight and 1 drop is only .05ml. Share the info about the DMG with your vet, BTW.


This is confusing me. Here is why:

I believe that ml measures volume of liquid and not weight. One would convert to mg. or kg for weight. 20 drops of water = 1 ml.
1 tsp is 5 ml. When one measures using cc = same as ml.
 

Hankmacaw

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The dosage is one drop of DMG per 100mg of weight of the animal. Her cockatiel weighs approx. 50mg so the dosage would be 1/2 the dosage for a 100mg bird - or .05ml daily. For the first two weeks DMG recommends doubling the dosage so that would be .10ml daily. Those are very small amounts to work with, but DMG is not dangerous nor toxic, so if you are a little over it won't hurt anything.
 

meheartbirds

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cyoungva I just saw this thread and I feel like we have a lot in common with our birds but probably different reasons. I am SO SORRY to see your lovely sweet Cozzi suffering and am so sorry you lost Baby Girl. I am relatively new here also but I have found so much support and caring from people I don't even know. I had five birds shipped to me Sept 18th 4 EBs and 1 tiel to go with my lone Tiel I had already and 4 budgies. I wanted a flock I could love and protect. Sadly the breeder was a bad person and sent me sick birds..one was so sick that after 2 trials of antibiotics and icu for a week, the third antibiotic was starting to work, but she suddenly died the day I was coming to get her. Meanwhile the other birds shipped were getting sick (all respiratory symptoms) and then my own flock started getting sick..it spread like wildfire. Fortunately an avian rescuer was able to help me too and too care of the bills because I could not afford it at the time because I was between jobs. I also have an excellent vet ...Avian and Exotic Veterinary in Raleigh.
Whether it helps or not I will tell you some of the things I did per vet instruction and the avian rescue angel. Gaga died and a necropsy did not give us a clue as to why she died but her lungs were bright red, and Tiara was beginning to go the same way...so heartbreaking and not knowing what caused it. However since Gaga was showing great signs of improvement just before she died unexpectedly, the vet felt that the third trial of antibiotics was beginning to help so she switched all my birds including Tiara to Clavamox. Also gave them a fungal med. But the thing I felt really got Tiara back on her feet was putting her on a tapering dose of prednisolone. All the birds that were showing symptoms of increased breathing were put on a nebulizer treatment twice a day and the vet rented me a nebulizer (ultrasonic) until Dee brought her own and lent it to me for the rest of the time.
Tiara is on her next to the last dose of prednisolone and is looking very good. All my other birds are completely healed it appears from my vet examination but she wants to keep Tiara on antibiotics one more week because she still looks to be breathing slightly faster than normal but her lungs sound good. I believe that all the care everyone gave my birds saved them! Also I want to mention one more thing that really helped Tiara..Dee brought me her O2 concentrator and we made an oxygen tent out of a clear shoer curtain purchased at walmart. As long as she was struggling and I had another bird who was not as bad but breathing fast...I kept them in that cage with the oxygen tent over it and it really helped her and gave her strength I think to endure the rest.
Now everyone is normal and off all meds and treatments but as I mentioned she wanted to give Tiara another week just to be sure.
If it had not been for all the help and advice I received both from here and the vet and the rescue, I would have watched all my birds die. I AM SO GRATEFUL!
I pray that your sweet Cozzi gets entirely healed..what a sweet bird..I have a special place in my heart for Tiels.
I do have a question about the thistle seeds...my vet found that one of the budgies I had rescued has liver disease over 300. I really dont want to be the bad guy forever and I want to build trust and I really do not want to give the milk thistle the vet gave her twice daily forever.
Because she is very hard to catch and for many reasons I want her to feel safe with me. Do the seeds work well?
 

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This is confusing me. Here is why:
I believe that ml measures volume of liquid and not weight. One would convert to mg. or kg for weight. 20 drops of water = 1 ml.
1 tsp is 5 ml. When one measures using cc = same as ml.
Oooppss Sorry I wrote 1 drop per 100 ml of weight and it should have been 1 drop per 100 grams of weight. I corrected that. Cc = ml 1 drop = .05 cc or ml so that would be .05 ml per 100 grams of weight.
 
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Lady Jane

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I am the person that suggested the MT seeds. There are no studies on their effectiveness of detox for a birds liver. I feed them because they may help. Stick with what your vet recommends be it seed or liquid.
 

meheartbirds

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I am the person that suggested the MT seeds. There are no studies on their effectiveness of detox for a birds liver. I feed them because they may help. Stick with what your vet recommends be it seed or liquid.
Thanks Lady Jane!
 

meheartbirds

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I just remember you mentioned your Tiel ate Romaine lettuce. Could it be the tainted batch with e coli from California in the news?
 

Hankmacaw

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Milk Thistle
The seed from the Milk Thistle plant is very, very bitter and many birds will not eat them at all. Additionally, larger birds such as macaws and cockatoos shell their seeds before eating and the cannot shell a Milk Thistle seed. It is very difficult to overdose a bird with Milk Thistle extract.

"To be honest with you, I have little to no faith in the effectiveness of Milk Thistle seeds. The liquid is extracted and much stronger and absorbable than the seeds and you have control of the dosage. I don't even know if they will work unless the silymarin (the effective component) is extracted. Be sure you always get the non-alcohol kind."

Milk thistle is one of a number of supplements that Dr. Lafeber recommends.

Antioxidant supplementation
Elevation of liver enzymes alone does not generally warrant a dietary change, however if liver enzymes are consistently elevated, supplemental antioxidants may partially protect hepatocytes from further damage. Healthy hepatocytes maintain an elaborate antioxidant system. Interruption of the free radical scavenger defense system by inflammation, infection, hypotension, and/or accumulation of copper is thought to play a major role in the pathogenesis and the progression of hepatic lesions. Dosing, efficacy, and the exact mechanism of action of these supplements is not fully understood, however antioxidants are known to be more effective when given in combination because of their synergistic action.

The Side Effects From Milk Thistle in Birds or Parrots | Animals - mom.me
Milk Thistle Considerations
Even when given in large doses, milk thistle is generally not poisonous to birds, although it may or may not be effective in helping with liver issues, depending on the cause. Consult with your avian vet regarding the dosage of milk thistle seeds or milk thistle supplements for your particular bird, based on her size and condition. The Currumbin Valley Veterinary Services website recommends adding some greens, including clippings of the milk thistle plant and other types of thistle plants, to a bird's regular diet. These plants can provide healthy fiber for Polly. When choosing any plants to feed your bird, only give her those that haven't been treated with any pesticides, which can make her sick.
 

meheartbirds

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Milk Thistle
The seed from the Milk Thistle plant is very, very bitter and many birds will not eat them at all. Additionally, larger birds such as macaws and cockatoos shell their seeds before eating and the cannot shell a Milk Thistle seed. It is very difficult to overdose a bird with Milk Thistle extract.

"To be honest with you, I have little to no faith in the effectiveness of Milk Thistle seeds. The liquid is extracted and much stronger and absorbable than the seeds and you have control of the dosage. I don't even know if they will work unless the silymarin (the effective component) is extracted. Be sure you always get the non-alcohol kind."

Milk thistle is one of a number of supplements that Dr. Lafeber recommends.

Antioxidant supplementation
Elevation of liver enzymes alone does not generally warrant a dietary change, however if liver enzymes are consistently elevated, supplemental antioxidants may partially protect hepatocytes from further damage. Healthy hepatocytes maintain an elaborate antioxidant system. Interruption of the free radical scavenger defense system by inflammation, infection, hypotension, and/or accumulation of copper is thought to play a major role in the pathogenesis and the progression of hepatic lesions. Dosing, efficacy, and the exact mechanism of action of these supplements is not fully understood, however antioxidants are known to be more effective when given in combination because of their synergistic action.

The Side Effects From Milk Thistle in Birds or Parrots | Animals - mom.me
Milk Thistle Considerations
Even when given in large doses, milk thistle is generally not poisonous to birds, although it may or may not be effective in helping with liver issues, depending on the cause. Consult with your avian vet regarding the dosage of milk thistle seeds or milk thistle supplements for your particular bird, based on her size and condition. The Currumbin Valley Veterinary Services website recommends adding some greens, including clippings of the milk thistle plant and other types of thistle plants, to a bird's regular diet. These plants can provide healthy fiber for Polly. When choosing any plants to feed your bird, only give her those that haven't been treated with any pesticides, which can make her sick.
Great feedback Hankmacaw. I will read this several times. The vet gave my tiny budgies 0.15 ml twice daily. She feels that Banana Pop and Marine will not have to take it forever and Marine should have good results faster because his liver enzymes are in a mild range of 200. I hope I said that correctly. And she does not feel that the seeds are helpful to change their liver values.
I am worried about Cozzi because we have not heard from the Va lady recently. Makes me think he died.
 
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