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Clipping or Not??????

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clawnz

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:D Not offended at all. I love getting ALL views. It's funny timeing seeing how I have been letting TJ grow out and he took his first little flight today. The main problem I see with this whole topic is that there is only 1 way of flying, and mulitiple ways of clipping. I think the major issue with clipping is the "proper" vs "improper". I can't wait to see him fly. :dance4:

Thank you! I hope all goes well. I feel it is the 'Panic Flight' that can become an issue. Mainly because it is an uncontrolled reaction to a fright.
Poor flyers can crash. While those with good flying skills seem to do alright.
 

jmfleish

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Unlike clipping wing feathers, declawing is an amputation of the last part of every digit. Equivalent to chopping off the todder's fingers from an earlier similie or pinioning birds. Clipping wings and amputating toes are not at all the same, and the latter's not on topic for this board, but something I'd be happy to discuss in depth elsewhere or via PM. Short version is that IMO, the US needs to get in line with the other 26 countries who have realized that it should not be legal.

ban cat declawing | animal welfare | The Paw Project
Ugh, so much to comment on but I will start here. I don't want to get into a war here, but I do want to say that your analogy doesn't work. Human and cat anatomy is totally different and cannot be compared at all. Declawing isn't nearly as horrible as we have lead to believe. But, back to clipping versus not clipping...
 

jmfleish

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Ok, I want to make a few observations about adult birds who have been clipped and are growing out their feathers and are now learning to fly for the first time or who are re-learning to fly. When baby birds wean, they also are supposed to fledge. This is a time in their life where fledging comes naturally. What a lot of breeders don't do is give them the opportunity to really and truly fledge. Fledging tatkes a lot more than a few weeks. It generally takes months and many birds are not proficient at flight until at least a year of age but I'm sure that most of us have gotten baby birds that have been clipped. This means that their fledging hasn't been totally completed, so as adults, they need to re-learn what they started as babies. This is no easy trick and it is not only hard on your bird, but it's hard on you because chances are, you've never fledged a bird!:)

Just like a baby learning to walk, they're going to have accidents and they'll stumble. I hate to read posts that say, "I can't let my bird fly because he keeps running into things and it scares me." While I totally understand why this would scare someone, the reality of the situation is, this is the only way your bird is going to learn to fly. You can minimize the accidents by making sure the windows and mirrors are covered as well as anything else your bird seems to have problems with as you learn with him. Work from his cage or a play stand and get him to jump to you for a treat and when he gets good at it, make the space between you and the playstand or cage a little bigger. This is called recall training folks and it's really easy and it's fun for your bird too. Soon you will see that your bird is actually flying to you!

Learning to fly is hard work and to really get good at it, even for a bird who was only clipped once as a baby, it could take as little as six months to a year. But the rewards are so great and it can be done!
 

jmfleish

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More observations here!:) I'm trying to break these up so that they don't seem like one long boring post.

I saw a lot of confusion about clipping versus trimming. Personally, I don't do either, so I'm not an expert but it is my understanding that any good clip/trim is only supposed to stop a bird from getting height. It isn't supposed to stop them from actually flying. At the very least, they should be able to glide and glide well. Anything less would be considered a bad clip in my mind and could cause a broken keel bone, broken beak, or worse.

Now, the mantra in the US and probably Canada has always been clip, clip, clip! Your bird is safer that way. I'm not going to tell you that clipping is bad or that you shouldn't clip your bird because it isn't my choice but I do want everyone to seriously think about why they are clipping and that's why I think that these discussions are important.

One, I think that we have established that a clip is not supposed to ground your bird so I'm going to implore everyone, please do not take any bird outside, clipped or not, without a harness or in a carrier, unless you've seriously trained that bird for free flight (that is flight outside, unrestrained). Sooner or later, you will lose your bird, it's inevetible. Clipped birds can and do fly and can go miles in a good wind and once they fall, they generally can't get back in the air.

Two, what is a clip saving your bird from? Ok, I'll give you the fact that your bird might not get out the door as easily as my flighted birds can but the reality of the situation is this. Clipping gives the owner a false sense of security. If you aren't completely diligent with keeping up with that clip, you may not realize that it has grown out and you might have a more fully flighted bird than you think you do. Me, I know my bird is fully flighted all the time and I never take that for granted, so I'm always careful. Also, should my fully flighted bird actually get out, he's not defenseless, not only can he fly, but he can fly well and he's been somewhat recall trained. A clipped bird who gets out is only going to go so far, but that could be a really long way and then that bird could be in big trouble. Personally, I think a flighted bird has a better chance of surviving outside than a clipped bird, but that's just my opinion.

What are some other reasons for clipping a bird. I've heard boiling pots of water...easy solution to that, put your bird in its cage when you cook. Ceiling fans...don't use them when your bird is out. Toilets...I not only keep the seat down, but I keep the door to the bathroom closed too...otherwise those pesky birds go in there and chew up my shower curtain! Those maniacs!:) What else is there? Electrical cords...well, that's a no brainer, don't you think a clipped bird is more apt to chew on those than a flighted bird?:) Doors? If I'm going in or out, birds in their cage. Windows and mirrors? Once they learned to fly and fly well (took a good year for all of them mind you), this was no longer an issue. Cats and dogs...well, I don't know that I would trust a dog, but my cats are terrified of my birds!:) Birds with other birds? Well, we've had some scuffles and yes, one certain little grey bird is no longer allowed out when the Ekkies are out, but other than that, we've done well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of the problems work themselves out and for the health, mental and physical, of my feathered brats, it's well worth it. For me, I'll never clip again and why did I post all of this? To get everyone to just re-evaluate once again and think about where you are!:)
 

Riley's mom

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I don't know why people bring these topics up when they're "experienced" bird owners......... when they know good and well it starts a debate every single time

it's well known this topic is one that every one agrees to disagree

what is right for one is not always right for another

and i am tired of people saying birds who are clipped can not fly - all i can say is y'all must be seeing birds who were clipped WRONG..... because mine are clipped and yes they DO FLY just not from the ground up, nor can they stay up as long

No I do not Clip YOUNG birds. they fly for a few weeks - months before they get clipped.

I have NEVER lost a bird or even came close to losing one out a door/window , now if mine were fully flighted I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to say that!

it is the OWNERS Choice, if they want to clip their bird(s) or not not some Joe Schmoes choice off the internet and IF we do clip DO NOT LOOK DOWN ON US, like we just killed the bird because IT is NOTHING like that

and don't tell me you don't because I know SEVERAL of you do!

The only people that should be bringing up this topic are "newbies" who are asking rather they should or shouldn't in their particular environment and wanting ADVICE , OPINIONS not people who are AGAINST wing clipping.

I'm against a lot of things and alot of those are HUGE debates, but you don't see me posting about it, making it sound like my way is the only way.... because I know it isn't.... Just because it works for me and my house hold does not mean it will work for Tom, dick, or Harry's house hold and I am well aware of that. and when "newbies" do ask I only tell them what works for mine and make sure they understand it may not work in their case because EVERY case is DIFFERENT

and Please don't go on the rampage, that a clipped bird is the only bird that plucks, none of mine pluck and are clipped. So again NOT ALWAYS THE CASE! I actually know more birds who have never been clipped that pluck than birds who are clipped who pluck.

Very well put Kelli!! I would be nice if some people would try to make others feel like they are horrible bird owners just because they
clip the wings. It's a matter of prevarence.
 

Birdiemarie

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This thread is closed. Please use the Search option to read the many other threads on this very personal and passionate subject.
 
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