Clipping or Not??????

[birdman78]

Quote: "Apply this to a bird and you can then say it's body will not work to the max without flight, hence I Pro Flighted"

So where does an ostrich, turkey, and many other birds that don't fly fall? Are there bodies not work to the max? Are they depressed?

 

[Quiverful]

I posted details on this thread on comments on the site listed below, yet some still wish to gloss over the report. I guess research with over 4,000 birds just does not cut it.
I thought it shows that a bird needs to develop all it's brain and needs flight to stimulate that. So those that argue, are you saying this is not correct? Or are you not reading this the way I am.
The Parrot University at Hartman Aviary

Not sure if I am one of the people you mentioned, but I agree with you that flight is important for birds. My questions/arguments were about something totally different, though. But, we have moved on...

 

[Quiverful]

Prince Toasty Buns-I won't quote your post as it was so long You're welcome for the compliment. I also really like this latest post, too. I find it to be a mild inconvenience to have flighted birds. Like you, I will have several out at a time and I also have a couple bullies that need their own special time out I don't have many pictures hanging on the walls. I have learned to live with a little bit of destruction. LOL For me, it's worth it to share my life with these wonderful creatures.

 

[Birdlover]

I cannot have birds out flying all day and I doubt many here can. I wish I could but my answer to this problem is to build a wire flight onto a window (actually several of my windows have wire flights built on to them) for my pet birds.

I really enjoyed this post (the whole thing but this part has most of my interest. I have been concidering adding something onto the house for my guys but havent decided on what. I really like this idea - is there any possibility of a picture to show how it is set up? And what did you make yours out of?

I have great weather here and lots of outside time is no problem. My biggest concerns are keeping the birds safe while out and not having the chance of hawks, snakes, etc being a problem. The wire barrier helps but do you have anything to keep predatory birds off the fights?

 

[Quiverful]

I found the window flight thing interesting, too. Do you have any pics??

 

[Sadieladie1994]

PRINCE TOASTY BUNS Your post was excellent information and information I was looking for in the first place. I hope those reading this heading make it through to this point and see the excellent information that was posted.

People who never had birds do not know how to handle them. those that grew up with clipped birds don't know how to start with a flighted bird. Training years back was very negative and punitive and now there is operant conditioning, ABA, clicker training etc.

Education is the key. A successful educator presents information in many different ways and continues to encourage one along the path when one may falter or stumble.

Thanks again for great information.

Peggy

 

[Sharpie]

Accidents do happen to birds whether fully flighted or not. I personally feel they are less frequent if fully flighted but I cannot prove that, so it is just an opinion in this thread (from approx. 20 yrs. of experience).

Do we keep our human children locked away inside our homes because they might get hurt outside? Do we keep them from hiking or swimming or biking, etc. because of the hidden dangers of those activities, etc...? I think life needs to be lived to its fullest to be truly worthwhile (best each person or animal is capable of anyway). If a bird (on rare occassion) gets injured or even killed because it had full use of it's wings, then maybe the time it did have flying (as it was meant to) made it happier than being alive longer in a clipped state (handicapped) with what some of us think is the all important kootchie-koo type of existence. There is far more to life (or should be IMO) for our birds than simply/only kootchie-koo love from humans.

I think that people who live in apts. or are temporarily renting or live in a mobile home or are handicapped themselves are the only ones who currently have a fair acceptable excuse (temporarily anyway) for not providing what birds need and/or should have (their birth rights in other words). Almost everyone who owns a home though (IMO) should do whatever it takes to have a fully flighted safe area of their homes, inside or out (temp. controlled if necessary) constructed/put together for their flock members (if at all possible). Best is of course a walk-in flight or aviary or room or part of ones home where birds can be themselves, as much as possible and can ALSO have the kootchie-koos that some of us feel they must have, whether the birds themselves trully need that or not.

I agree with many parts of this- but I DO live in a trailer and I DO have flighted birds. Living in trailers and rentals is not an excuse to clip birds any more than a pot of boiling water on the stove is. It may mean more work and more things to be aware of, especially with bigger birds that can do more damage, but it's not an excuse. I'm not saying that people should never clip birds, just that there is NO one blanket reason, just a host of littler and bigger factors that each owner must weigh when coming to a decision.

 

[clawnz]

Prince Toasty Buns Great reply. Thank you.
I guess what is important when birds are out, is to have areas that they can hang out on. I think that is one of the reasons my Teils spend so much time on their Gym.
It is hard for me to quantify as they were set free in the open confines of the conservatory. But I do know my friends Cockatiel has only a very small room to fly in and goes ape when he is first let out, lap after lap to start with. He is hand tame and will settle, but he is a Head Lander, he knows it is hard for you to get hold of him up there. Then when all the excitment is over he then will play with who ever is near. he needs body contact with humans.
Another has a Cockatoo and it only has a very small house to fly in, but has learn't to fly around without crashing into things.
Another thing I would like to add is If you cover glass windows to start with, what then happens if you then remove protective cover, does the bird then think this is an opening? And try to fly through it.
I did try to find out on another thread on another forum, the relationship between non flighted and destruction as I have not seen this behaviour in my own birds and I ask why. They never cause me any problems chewing things they are not allowed to. They only chew the gym or things I give them.
I also go out of my way to give them Natural things to eat or chew. This can be branches from trees to just tops in flower, fresh veges and weeds from the garden.
Funny as I just cut down a Silky Oak tree in flower. (Gravillea). I gave them a whole big branch, and that did not go down well to start with, but 2x days later I see Henry trying the flowers. All this takes time as they are not used to such treats.
Like it took them two months to start eating Mung Bean Sprouts. Now they get into them as soon as I put them out for them.
The gym is made from Manuka and Paperbark Gum which they love ( at least I think they do) Chewing on this keeps them occupied and is good for the beak and nails.
I am sorry I am not into toys one buys at a pet shop. They only get natural things to play with or eat.
I am not sure you can call this foraging but here is a vid of Tweety getting excited about some fresh Paperbark tops, even with her deformed feet she was still keen to get stuck in.
I think you can say she was very happy to see this get put up on the gym for her.
Yes I would say we need to entertain any bird we have, it is just a matter of finding out what turns them on. It is easy in a cage just buy some more toys. but when flying free they may need something to keep them out of trouble.
YouTube - Tweety in seventh heaven "Lost"

 

[Sadieladie1994]

and this is what some may think about having a flighted bird.

YouTube - Pigeon: Impossible

LOL.

 

[birdman78]

and this is what some may think about having a flighted bird.

YouTube - Pigeon: Impossible

LOL.

 

[Quiverful]

and this is what some may think about having a flighted bird.

YouTube - Pigeon: Impossible

LOL.

That is hysterical!!! LOLOLOL I think it would be more accurate with a Cockatoo, though!

 

[Stevo]

Or a devious amazon..

 

[JLcribber]

This is the best, most complete, informative (on both sides of the coin) thread I have read on this board to date. Just awesome!!!

Certainly seems "stick" worthy to me.

Loved that video too!!!

 

[brianimal]

Coby was clipped as a young bird, and i am very glad that he was, but now, he is growing more feathers and i am happy to let him grow the feathers out. Coby was untamed when I got him, I have NO IDEA how i would have tamed him if he had been fully flighted, it gave him a slight dependance me , he still could fly, he just limited as to how far and how fast he could fly. But now that we have an ideal relationship, i trust him and i dont have to have him limited. I think Clipping should be a case by case thing, Just my opinon

 

[suncoast]

and this is what some may think about having a flighted bird.

YouTube - Pigeon: Impossible

LOL.

That was GREAT!!

Ginger

 

[Birdlover]

This thread was closed today to remove an off-topic discussion that we had asked to be dropped but was brought back up. It has been removed so we can carry on with the intent of this thread - discussing the merits of keeping your pet bird(s) flighted. Please stay on topic, this is a great thread to be able to continue but to accomplish what the intent is, it needs to stay on track. Thanks.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Coby was clipped as a young bird, and i am very glad that he was, but now, he is growing more feathers and i am happy to let him grow the feathers out. Coby was untamed when I got him, I have NO IDEA how i would have tamed him if he had been fully flighted, it gave him a slight dependance me , he still could fly, he just limited as to how far and how fast he could fly. But now that we have an ideal relationship, i trust him and i dont have to have him limited. I think Clipping should be a case by case thing, Just my opinon

You chose a way that worked for you and you had a great outcome. This is one of those topics that you got to stay away from right or wrong but what do we want to accomplish and how to get there. It differs for a variety of reasons.

I did like your story and you have a great bird there.

Peggy

 

[clawnz]

Let me start off by saying I can go either way on this topic. TJ is currently clipped but am letting him grow his wings out and we'll play it by ear.

I view clipping wings like baby proofing your house. We put outlet covers on to protect the baby, just like we clip to protect. In your theroy , lets just let the baby stick a toy in the outlet. Luck maybe on there side. My point is, why would you chance "Luck".



You want you bird to be flighted and free, take him/her outside to fly freely, and see where that will get you.

Like I said, I can go either way. A properly clipped bird to me has less dangers.

I can now reply to you re Why leave it to luck! because they can and do learn. It is not a perfect world. We all have to learn somethings, No? It was a calculated guess, and as luck would have it, I was right. he did hurt his self getting tangled up in the Play gym after Tinkerbell did one of her freak outs. But this was not a flight issue.
I posted a thread about 'Henry now has his wings.'
He now has control of his flight and is a happy Fid, why should I of denied him that?

As for less dangers for clipped Fids. I think there is enough evidence put forward to say that heavy clipped birds are the ones most likely to suffer Keel damage!

I know of a mother who would not let her children skate down the drive? She was worried they may get hurt? So does that mean they never get to learn how to skateboard?

I would love to share the outside with my Fids.
Shanlung shows it can be done.
Please, I mean you no offense. just wanted to reply. You did ask. Just took me a long time.
Happy New Year.
Clive

 

[birdman78]

I can now reply to you re Why leave it to luck! because they can and do learn. It is not a perfect world. We all have to learn somethings, No?
I posted a thread about 'Henry now has his wings.'
He now has control of his flight and is a happy Fid, why should I of denied him that?

As for less dangers for clipped Fids. I think there is enough evidence put forward to say that heavy clipped birds are the ones most likely to suffer Keel damage!

I know of a mother who would not let her children skate down the drive? She was worried they may get hurt? So does that mean they never get to learn how to skateboard?

I would love to share the outside with my Fids.
Shanlung shows it can be done.
Please, I mean you no offense. just wanted to reply. You did ask. Just took me a long time.
Happy New Year.
Clive

Not offended at all. I love getting ALL views. It's funny timeing seeing how I have been letting TJ grow out and he took his first little flight today. The main problem I see with this whole topic is that there is only 1 way of flying, and mulitiple ways of clipping. I think the major issue with clipping is the "proper" vs "improper". I can't wait to see him fly.

 

[clawnz]

I think if a bird is in danger or smacks in to walls then you should clip. If not I would not clip.

Both Chiquita and Boomer are fully flighted and I would never clip their wings. It is amazing to see them fly. Right now Chiquita just whipped past my head. The excitement she gets from flying is a good feeling, she is free. Boomer is also a great flyer. Both go home on command, I trained them both fully flighted to step up, go home, go on my arms when I call them, ect. So it can be done without clipping.

I just think birds are meant to fly. Everything in my home is birdie safe, I NEVER leave them alone when they are out. But they just absolutely love to fly.

I had an IRN Polsky and his wings were clipped and he tried so hard to fly it made me sad however, it was a bad clip job by the breeder. He fell to the bottom of his cage, cracked his neck and passed away because he lost him balance and could not fly. I loved him so much.

But everyone has their own opinion which is fine, it’s your bird, so what you feel is right and necessary. But Im all for not clipping.

Henry has become a controled flyer and he now enjoys flight.
My Thread Henry now has his wings. Details him flying up to a glass door then flying around it to get to the cage. Even though he could see the cage straight ahead.
Leaving him flighted has payed off.