I reached out to Dr. Greg Burkett, who is ironically a Caique owner himself. He has a single 20 year old BHC named Elvis. Is was great to get some additional information directly from a vet, especially one with personal experience with this species. I requested permission to post our conversation to hopefully help some others out there. I was actually a little surprised by some of his responses. Looking forward to additional feedback on this conversation from everyone here. Dr Burkett's responses are in red. Please see all the attached information he sent too. Cheers!
----------------------------------- START FIRST EMAIL -----------------------------------
Dear Dr. Burkett,
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Andrew Robinson. I’m currently living down the road in Raleigh and have been spending the last few months doing countless hours of research on Caiques with the possibility of picking up one (possibly two). After speaking with several local bird owners, a nearby breeder (Rita Garris), local rescue (Jennifer Cameron), online forums (Avian Ave), etc. my head is spinning quite a bit. Several of the decisions necessary when selecting a new feathered friend (Specifically a Caique) have left me very indecisive. Part of the cause is due to the fact that this will be a first time for me. I’m sure your first thought may be, don’t get a Caique… As a result, I am approaching very cautiously and making sure to do as much research as possible before diving in. Since I have been overwhelming recommended to select you as my future Avian vet, I thought perhaps you wouldn’t mind briefly reading over my situation and providing some expert guidance. I would greatly appreciate it!
I don’t want to keep you too long, so here is the short hand version. Essentially after cycling through several breeds initially (Finches, budgies, love birds, conures, etc.), I have fallen in love with the Caique. Their colors, playful nature, high energy, etc. makes them very appealing to me. After extensive research including several books, I am now well aware of all that entails (the good and the bad). I recognize that Caiques are not the recommended first time bird due to their personalities, but I am still very interested in giving it a shot. I don’t really understand the concept of starter birds. With as long as some of these birds lifespans are, your first bird, could end up being your only bird haha. With all this in mind, the biggest decisions I am struggling with are how to make the best decision (as a brand new parrot parent) that will mitigate as much of the potential trouble for myself and the bird down the road. To give short examples of recent recommendations…
“Don’t get one, get two. They will be easier to handle”
Horrible advice! If they live in the cage together, they will barely be handleable and will certainly prefer the company of the other bird over you.
“Don’t get a mated pair, they will potentially be more aggressive”
They do not have to be a mated pair, just two in the same cage, for them to be aggressive, not just potentially so.
“Get just one, you’re a new parent and need to ease into it”
Yes, but not necessarily to ease into it. There is no such thing as easing into a caique.
“Get two right from the start. Caiques are less accepting down the road of new additions.”
Very few birds are initially accepting of a new flock member, but it is irrelevant because they should not come into physical contact anyway and should be out together only when supervised. If you start with one, getting a second at a future date is never a problem. I think you could manage two, but everything should be considered before making the commitment for 2. If you have one and it works and you feel ready, then get a second one. IF you get two and it does not work it is more difficult to place one than get a second one. My opinion is start with one. It will be easier to manage one. If two is your desire then I would support it and help you the best I can to handle it.
And on and on. I’m sure you can see why I have been running into difficulty. There is lots of conflicting advice coming in. Whatever I choose, I want to make sure (given my new parent status) that I make the best decision possible to ensure the best life and wellbeing for my new buddies and I want to avoid at all costs any possibility of rehoming. This is why I am approaching this so cautiously. I do NOT want to beyet another example of someone that got in over their head and then just dumped the birds on someone else. That’s just not fair to them and I have promised myself I will not be doing this. I’m in it for the long haul.
In this case. Get 1.
Brief back story. I’m 30 years old and an engineer and nuclear physicist here locally in RTP. I currently work two jobs. Cisco day job, and research for a private company. I have the ability to work from home most of the week for my day job and my research is in its early stages, so most of that is out of my home office too. My hours can be a little late at times. I mostly work in the afternoons to the late evening, but several other bird owners have assured me that everything will be ok. As long as I am still able to give lots of attention (which will be no problem at all), they will develop their own schedule and will be just fine. I’m also a single guy and have no plans of marrying and definitely no plans of kids. I also rarely travel except to the occasional conference or holidays with family. With all this in mind, I get the feeling I am potentially the perfect future parrot parent.
Your lifestyle will support parrot ownership.
Alright this email is already stretching out longer than I expected so let me wrap up. What I was hoping you could help me with is some advice on some of the following questions:
Given my new parrot parent status, should I look at getting one or two Caiques, and why?
Get 1. You will be able to focus on training with less distraction. You can always add another later. IF you get 2 and find you want one, then you have one to place.
If one, what sex would you recommend and why?
Female. They tend to be more predictable and not aggressive, in general.
If two, same question and why?
Both female. Males will be more aggressive with another female or another male.
Can you give some examples from other patients that have two and regret it, or have just one and regret not getting two?
I have more who have second thoughts about even getting the first one. I have a caique and he is great. I would do it again. I would not have gotten 2 and now I see why. He is enough for me to keep up with. I have only a couple of clients that have more than one and they enjoy seeing them play together and have not expressed regretting 2.
What percentage of your clients keep a pair vs just a single bird?
1%, maybe.
I am really worried about plucking, so I want to make sure I make the right decision from the start.
Plucking is rarely a problem in caiques. If they pluck it is nearly always a medical reason. Often it is reproductively related and having 2 will be a tremendous stimulus and will lead to health and behavior problems even in separate cages.
Also please at least take a look at the following table I have put together to help me decide. This really highlights all the questions above. It’s a PRO vs CON table for both one and two Caiques: http://host.atomiklan.com/caique/index.html
Pro of needing only one cage is not. You cannot have 2 in one cage. If you have 2 you must have 2 cages. If you cannot, then you can only have 1 (and enjoy it as a companion). I don’t think loneliness is a valid reason for a second bird. If they live separately (and they must) they will not have physical contact, but they may vocalize to each other. No potentially, but they WILL develop behavior problems. If you have 2 they will NOT bond with you; caiques are no different from other birds in this regards. Training two will be MORE difficult to train. A divided cage will not be sufficient to prevent them from harming each other (through the bars) by biting toes especially. Even if they get along initially, they will not always.Youtube shows only the good stuff. Stories people tell are not always complete. You will be happier with one.
I will add: More is riding on how you start off with the things you need and the husbandry you provide. For example, a cage that is too small is going to cause behavior problems A ply top cage will be even worse. Cage set up is as important as cage style (it is not intuitive). Provide a pellet diet (Harrison’s), appropriate perches, and a water bottle to prevent 90% of health problems. I have attached some information that I hope you find useful. Would be very happy to help you with setting up a cage with the right stuff and layout. We also sell cages and the stuff that goes in them.
Thank you again for all your attention! I am really looking forward to your feedback to help me make an informed decision.
Regards,
Andrew
------------------------------------- END FIRST EMAIL ------------------------------------
---------------------------------- START SECOND EMAIL ---------------------------------
Dear Dr. Burkett,
Thank you very much for the reply! I am sure you are quite busy and so I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my email in such detail. It is somewhat surprising to hear a very different opinion on a lot of the topics I have already studied, but I am highly confident in taking your expert advice. It just means I will need to go back and re-evaluate my PRO v CON sheet. Thank you also for the attached information. I have read through all of it already. I was very surprised to read that you recommend a high percentage pellet diet over fresh fruits and veggies.
That should not be a surprise. Pellets are the only guarantee for a complete and balanced diet. Fruits and vegetables are great treats, but a complete diet they do not make. Pellets need to be 90% of the diet.
If you don’t mind, I have a few final follow up questions for you. First, may I have your permission to post this email transcript and the attached information online so some other potential future Caique owners may benefit from the knowledge?
Yes, please publish this info.
I know there are a few other individuals in my shoes that have been following along closely with this decision making process. Second question. Do you know of any Caique breeders here locally, or at least closer than GA or FL? Those two locations are the only two breeders I have found so far that seem reputable and caring.
I do not know of any in this area. You can check www.rdcbs.org for possible sources.
It would be great to find someone a little closer if possible though. Was your Caique a rescue or from a breeder?
I bred Elvis myself. Many years ago I had nearly 150 pairs of breeder parrots. I had two pairs of caiques and Elvis is one of those offspring. He is approaching 20 years old.
I am guessing probably a rescue considering your direct attachment to the community. Last question. I was disappointed to read that you discourage play top cages. After reading more in depth, I wonder if the cage I am considering is perhaps an exception to that recommendation as it has both a low “playtop” and the higher dome top. I have been considering one of the large stainless steel A&E cages similar to the following: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1201/3674/products/PC-4226D_grande.jpg?v=1481314459
My wife chose this very cage for her grey. I do not like it. It is a very inefficient use of space. Our bird has never gone into the sire of the play top. It is too small and birds do not like to be low. When there is a higher part in a cage, that is where they spend their time. It is a terrible design. Dome top cages give 25% more space. It prevents cage top play, eliminating that as a source for aggression and misbehaving. Play top cages have a tray that blocks light.
Again, thank you for your time and attention!
Regards,
Andrew
----------------------------------- END SECOND EMAIL -----------------------------------
What are everyone's thoughts on the playtop cages? I'm not dismissing Dr Burkett's advice, just curious what everyone has learned over the years. Same question regarding diet. Again, not dismissing expert advice, but was surprised to hear this.
----------------------------------- START FIRST EMAIL -----------------------------------
Dear Dr. Burkett,
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Andrew Robinson. I’m currently living down the road in Raleigh and have been spending the last few months doing countless hours of research on Caiques with the possibility of picking up one (possibly two). After speaking with several local bird owners, a nearby breeder (Rita Garris), local rescue (Jennifer Cameron), online forums (Avian Ave), etc. my head is spinning quite a bit. Several of the decisions necessary when selecting a new feathered friend (Specifically a Caique) have left me very indecisive. Part of the cause is due to the fact that this will be a first time for me. I’m sure your first thought may be, don’t get a Caique… As a result, I am approaching very cautiously and making sure to do as much research as possible before diving in. Since I have been overwhelming recommended to select you as my future Avian vet, I thought perhaps you wouldn’t mind briefly reading over my situation and providing some expert guidance. I would greatly appreciate it!
I don’t want to keep you too long, so here is the short hand version. Essentially after cycling through several breeds initially (Finches, budgies, love birds, conures, etc.), I have fallen in love with the Caique. Their colors, playful nature, high energy, etc. makes them very appealing to me. After extensive research including several books, I am now well aware of all that entails (the good and the bad). I recognize that Caiques are not the recommended first time bird due to their personalities, but I am still very interested in giving it a shot. I don’t really understand the concept of starter birds. With as long as some of these birds lifespans are, your first bird, could end up being your only bird haha. With all this in mind, the biggest decisions I am struggling with are how to make the best decision (as a brand new parrot parent) that will mitigate as much of the potential trouble for myself and the bird down the road. To give short examples of recent recommendations…
“Don’t get one, get two. They will be easier to handle”
Horrible advice! If they live in the cage together, they will barely be handleable and will certainly prefer the company of the other bird over you.
“Don’t get a mated pair, they will potentially be more aggressive”
They do not have to be a mated pair, just two in the same cage, for them to be aggressive, not just potentially so.
“Get just one, you’re a new parent and need to ease into it”
Yes, but not necessarily to ease into it. There is no such thing as easing into a caique.
“Get two right from the start. Caiques are less accepting down the road of new additions.”
Very few birds are initially accepting of a new flock member, but it is irrelevant because they should not come into physical contact anyway and should be out together only when supervised. If you start with one, getting a second at a future date is never a problem. I think you could manage two, but everything should be considered before making the commitment for 2. If you have one and it works and you feel ready, then get a second one. IF you get two and it does not work it is more difficult to place one than get a second one. My opinion is start with one. It will be easier to manage one. If two is your desire then I would support it and help you the best I can to handle it.
And on and on. I’m sure you can see why I have been running into difficulty. There is lots of conflicting advice coming in. Whatever I choose, I want to make sure (given my new parent status) that I make the best decision possible to ensure the best life and wellbeing for my new buddies and I want to avoid at all costs any possibility of rehoming. This is why I am approaching this so cautiously. I do NOT want to beyet another example of someone that got in over their head and then just dumped the birds on someone else. That’s just not fair to them and I have promised myself I will not be doing this. I’m in it for the long haul.
In this case. Get 1.
Brief back story. I’m 30 years old and an engineer and nuclear physicist here locally in RTP. I currently work two jobs. Cisco day job, and research for a private company. I have the ability to work from home most of the week for my day job and my research is in its early stages, so most of that is out of my home office too. My hours can be a little late at times. I mostly work in the afternoons to the late evening, but several other bird owners have assured me that everything will be ok. As long as I am still able to give lots of attention (which will be no problem at all), they will develop their own schedule and will be just fine. I’m also a single guy and have no plans of marrying and definitely no plans of kids. I also rarely travel except to the occasional conference or holidays with family. With all this in mind, I get the feeling I am potentially the perfect future parrot parent.
Your lifestyle will support parrot ownership.
Alright this email is already stretching out longer than I expected so let me wrap up. What I was hoping you could help me with is some advice on some of the following questions:
Given my new parrot parent status, should I look at getting one or two Caiques, and why?
Get 1. You will be able to focus on training with less distraction. You can always add another later. IF you get 2 and find you want one, then you have one to place.
If one, what sex would you recommend and why?
Female. They tend to be more predictable and not aggressive, in general.
If two, same question and why?
Both female. Males will be more aggressive with another female or another male.
Can you give some examples from other patients that have two and regret it, or have just one and regret not getting two?
I have more who have second thoughts about even getting the first one. I have a caique and he is great. I would do it again. I would not have gotten 2 and now I see why. He is enough for me to keep up with. I have only a couple of clients that have more than one and they enjoy seeing them play together and have not expressed regretting 2.
What percentage of your clients keep a pair vs just a single bird?
1%, maybe.
I am really worried about plucking, so I want to make sure I make the right decision from the start.
Plucking is rarely a problem in caiques. If they pluck it is nearly always a medical reason. Often it is reproductively related and having 2 will be a tremendous stimulus and will lead to health and behavior problems even in separate cages.
Also please at least take a look at the following table I have put together to help me decide. This really highlights all the questions above. It’s a PRO vs CON table for both one and two Caiques: http://host.atomiklan.com/caique/index.html
Pro of needing only one cage is not. You cannot have 2 in one cage. If you have 2 you must have 2 cages. If you cannot, then you can only have 1 (and enjoy it as a companion). I don’t think loneliness is a valid reason for a second bird. If they live separately (and they must) they will not have physical contact, but they may vocalize to each other. No potentially, but they WILL develop behavior problems. If you have 2 they will NOT bond with you; caiques are no different from other birds in this regards. Training two will be MORE difficult to train. A divided cage will not be sufficient to prevent them from harming each other (through the bars) by biting toes especially. Even if they get along initially, they will not always.Youtube shows only the good stuff. Stories people tell are not always complete. You will be happier with one.
I will add: More is riding on how you start off with the things you need and the husbandry you provide. For example, a cage that is too small is going to cause behavior problems A ply top cage will be even worse. Cage set up is as important as cage style (it is not intuitive). Provide a pellet diet (Harrison’s), appropriate perches, and a water bottle to prevent 90% of health problems. I have attached some information that I hope you find useful. Would be very happy to help you with setting up a cage with the right stuff and layout. We also sell cages and the stuff that goes in them.
Thank you again for all your attention! I am really looking forward to your feedback to help me make an informed decision.
Regards,
Andrew
------------------------------------- END FIRST EMAIL ------------------------------------
---------------------------------- START SECOND EMAIL ---------------------------------
Dear Dr. Burkett,
Thank you very much for the reply! I am sure you are quite busy and so I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my email in such detail. It is somewhat surprising to hear a very different opinion on a lot of the topics I have already studied, but I am highly confident in taking your expert advice. It just means I will need to go back and re-evaluate my PRO v CON sheet. Thank you also for the attached information. I have read through all of it already. I was very surprised to read that you recommend a high percentage pellet diet over fresh fruits and veggies.
That should not be a surprise. Pellets are the only guarantee for a complete and balanced diet. Fruits and vegetables are great treats, but a complete diet they do not make. Pellets need to be 90% of the diet.
If you don’t mind, I have a few final follow up questions for you. First, may I have your permission to post this email transcript and the attached information online so some other potential future Caique owners may benefit from the knowledge?
Yes, please publish this info.
I know there are a few other individuals in my shoes that have been following along closely with this decision making process. Second question. Do you know of any Caique breeders here locally, or at least closer than GA or FL? Those two locations are the only two breeders I have found so far that seem reputable and caring.
I do not know of any in this area. You can check www.rdcbs.org for possible sources.
It would be great to find someone a little closer if possible though. Was your Caique a rescue or from a breeder?
I bred Elvis myself. Many years ago I had nearly 150 pairs of breeder parrots. I had two pairs of caiques and Elvis is one of those offspring. He is approaching 20 years old.
I am guessing probably a rescue considering your direct attachment to the community. Last question. I was disappointed to read that you discourage play top cages. After reading more in depth, I wonder if the cage I am considering is perhaps an exception to that recommendation as it has both a low “playtop” and the higher dome top. I have been considering one of the large stainless steel A&E cages similar to the following: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1201/3674/products/PC-4226D_grande.jpg?v=1481314459
My wife chose this very cage for her grey. I do not like it. It is a very inefficient use of space. Our bird has never gone into the sire of the play top. It is too small and birds do not like to be low. When there is a higher part in a cage, that is where they spend their time. It is a terrible design. Dome top cages give 25% more space. It prevents cage top play, eliminating that as a source for aggression and misbehaving. Play top cages have a tray that blocks light.
Again, thank you for your time and attention!
Regards,
Andrew
----------------------------------- END SECOND EMAIL -----------------------------------
What are everyone's thoughts on the playtop cages? I'm not dismissing Dr Burkett's advice, just curious what everyone has learned over the years. Same question regarding diet. Again, not dismissing expert advice, but was surprised to hear this.
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