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Ask on your opinion about sudden death of my budgie

Ivan Vanca

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Ivan Vanca
Hello. I would like to ask you. I had 2 sudden deaths of my budgies in last 2, 5 months. My budgie Bilko died due to some acute liver hepatitis and a young budgie Vitko ( 2, 5 years ) died 2 weeks ago on liver and spleen lymphoma ( lymphocites tumor int he spleen and liver ). I still can not exactly find out what happened. It is really strange.

I do not understand how can a healthy not exhibition young vital budgie get something like that. The stress from me could influence that, I did not always have a fair behaviour towards my budgies.

But, I had some problems with the neighbours over me in the panel house who use to beat their carpets or some door - mats from the window, and sometimes I find some hair on my outside window board. I am really exploding when I see that. They were aggressive when I normally wrote an appeal to them and gave it into their mailbox.

Is is possible that they got mad and used some microwave radiation through the walls to heat my flat? Once I heard some story from a man who was trying to create some alternative source of energy in the panel house, and the official state energy institution was trying to scare him and bought some flat near his flat and was sending him some microwave heating through the walls.

What do you think? My budgie Bilko died on acute liver hepatitis and Vitko on the liver and spleen lymphoma. It is really strange. What would you suggest? Thank you.
 

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Birds are great at hiding illnesses and offense when they are symptomatic they are very ill.

Diet and genetics would be my guess for the ailments you experienced.
 

Hawk12237

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Hello. I would like to ask you. I had 2 sudden deaths of my budgies in last 2, 5 months. My budgie Bilko died due to some acute liver hepatitis and a young budgie Vitko ( 2, 5 years ) died 2 weeks ago on liver and spleen lymphoma ( lymphocites tumor int he spleen and liver ). I still can not exactly find out what happened. It is really strange.

I do not understand how can a healthy not exhibition young vital budgie get something like that. The stress from me could influence that, I did not always have a fair behaviour towards my budgies.

But, I had some problems with the neighbours over me in the panel house who use to beat their carpets or some door - mats from the window, and sometimes I find some hair on my outside window board. I am really exploding when I see that. They were aggressive when I normally wrote an appeal to them and gave it into their mailbox.

Is is possible that they got mad and used some microwave radiation through the walls to heat my flat? Once I heard some story from a man who was trying to create some alternative source of energy in the panel house, and the official state energy institution was trying to scare him and bought some flat near his flat and was sending him some microwave heating through the walls.

What do you think? My budgie Bilko died on acute liver hepatitis and Vitko on the liver and spleen lymphoma. It is really strange. What would you suggest? Thank you.
It's really hard to back trace every thing the birds ate, drank, played with exposed to and etc..... I keep a log book
On my birds, helps me remember any bad days, unusual behavior and etc...
My wife formerly worked for avian vet over past 18 years. One thing she suggested is many times liver issues are diet related. And many times as well, drinking water related....! Yes believe it or not.
Take for example the flint mi. Water crisis. The contamination in the water not only hurt people, it killed animals!!
Well water is one you have to watch as well, many can contain arsenic.
 

Ivan Vanca

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Thank you. I mean my behaviour towards my budgies when I was pressing his feet because he was bitting other budgies, etc. I regret that.
Here in Slovakia we have a good water, I used sometimes to take some water from a well, spring, but mainly I use the filtered tap water. Other budgies do not show a problem.
If I exclude the possibility of the neighbours, I do not know where to find a source.... I feed mainly seeds from Germany, good quality... I use to offer apple, sometimes carrots, when it is a spring or summer, also some greens, like chickweed or dendelions, but it usually grows on polluted areas.
This male was very vital, flying pretty much, I do not think his diet would be a problem. Or a zinc poisoning, aflatoxins, surely not.... He had a spleen and liver lymphoma. Maybe they animals are getting some diseases of us, owners.... I heard that.
 

Monica

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It does not sound like they were eating a healthy, varied diet. A seed based diet with very little fresh food can lead to liver problems.
 

Ivan Vanca

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I do not agree, there are no evidences.... But there are evidences that pellets cause the gut inflammation or charges the kidneys. Yes, seeds are the base. I can not grow herbs as a green food here at home in the winter. I am too lazy for that. Sorry. And these findings have no connection with their diet. Also my albino budgie does not look very healthy, but she is this type of a budgie who was long in a bird box... and all albino budgies are of such a nature.
 

Mizzely

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Seeds can be part of the diet but without fresh foods then yes it can lead to health issues. My Jardine's had respiratory, heart, and muscle issues because of an all seed diet. Adding a multivitamin to their diet if you can't provide The fresh foods and don't want to offer pellets can help.
 

Monica

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Seeds do not contain all the nutritional components that they need. They are lacking in calcium, vitamin D, protein and so much more. A seed only diet *DOES* lead to malnutrition and liver failure.




You have now had two birds die from liver failure... and the number one cause of liver failure is a poor diet. The proof of how unhealthy a diet extremely high in seeds is is literally right in front of your face. Please do not deny this.
 

finchly

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Hi, I am so sorry for your losses. I know when we lose a bird and do not understand why, we often ruminate on it. Please realize that whatever we are suggesting here, we aren't present in your home, we aren't vets, and we can't possibly know the real reason.

What I would suggest, since you've had 2 pass away and now another seems to be ailing, is vitamin deficiency. Birds that eat seed-only are deficient in several vitamins.

I would immediately put that white one on a health booster. I know you aren't in my country but you can look at these on the Internet and see if you can find anything similar. Thrive or Guardian Angel. The other option is in the grocery store and it is for children, pedialyte. This is basically electrrolytes. I feel sure you can find one of these 3 items in some form. Only a tiny bit diluted in fresh water.

Next, put the remaining flock on a good multi-vitamin supplement. Try to find one with no sugar.

Also, if your husbandry is lacking at all, the birds can suffer. Clean cages (free from visible poop), fresh clean water, clean perches and food bowls. All this makes a world of difference. I clean daily and change water twice daily, washing the water bottles one of those 2 times.

I realize you said you don't want to grow plants, but one way to turn your seed mix into a great food source is by sprouting the seeds. Soak them in water overnight (even feeding them soaked is better than dry). There are tons of sprouting instructions on the Internet, I started to explain how but I won't. :D

Sprouting only takes a few days and birds love to eat the sprouts.

Good luck. Sorry we could not help you blame the neighbors! :lol:
 

Ivan Vanca

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I will react in one post to botch comments... Deny what? You do not know what my budgies were suffering from. First one : chronic kidneys failure, second one : cholangiocarcinoma of the liver, third one : unknown hepatitis, fourth one : spleen and liver lymphoma. I know how I was feeing my budgies. Do not worry. I know how pellets can be harmful, so I will not offer them.... there were no findings of nutritional disbalance at the autopsy and histology.
By one woman from Czech who is specializing in bird nutrition I was recommended to feed like this : grass seeds, canary seeds, senegal sprays, herbs ( dendelion, chickweed, etc ), idoine supplement, dried insects maybe or some dried small fruits, sometimes a carrot, humac pro powder, wet grass seeds, brewing yeasts. Fruits and veggies are supposed not to be natural for them.
I can not get here organic green veggies, mainly in the winter, so, please, do not advise me that. And chickweed and dandelions grow not during whole the year, and mainly on polluted areas. So, i have to feed mainly seeds. budgies are conservative. My budgies also do not eat canary seeds or grass seeds.
And I can tell that I was not warned by my doctor or by the histology doctor that there was found some signs of nutritional defect.
I was recommended by somebody to light the rooms in winter by special light to produce vitamine D, but I do not believe that, sorry.
 

Ivan Vanca

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finchly, my albino female budgie ( partner of Vitko who died recently ) was bought due to having chlamydiosis to save her.. she is scared of me, but all the birds are, I am not a good person. But this has probably no connection with vitamines.... It is right that I do not use multivitamines, they have some added chemicals and they would charge the kidneys. IT is also fact that I do not use the vitamine D lamp, I do not want to. sorry.
Yes, I do not give veggies daily. Where would I grow the herbs here in the flat? We have a garden, but.... but... you know.
And if somebody is recommending to buy only organic green veggies, it is nonsence, it is not possible. I think almost nobody feeds like that.
The supplements you mentioned to me are unknown for me. The water bowls are washed only by a water, I do not specially wash that. My budgies are flying in the rooms, the cages are there, but they are not going inside that. It is fact that I wash the upper part of a big cage only several times a year maybe, but this has no connection with that. I was interested on the opinion about the neighbours and some microwave radiation to harm the budgies or me.
 

Ivan Vanca

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I mean some form of sabotage, because maybe the neighbours think I am terrorizying them due to their manners of beating the carpets out of the window....I mean not the microwave itself, but some part from that which could be put next to the wall and heat the another flat.
 

finchly

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I will react in one post to botch comments... Deny what? You do not know what my budgies were suffering from. First one : chronic kidneys failure, second one : cholangiocarcinoma of the liver, third one : unknown hepatitis, fourth one : spleen and liver lymphoma. I know how I was feeing my budgies. Do not worry. I know how pellets can be harmful, so I will not offer them.... there were no findings of nutritional disbalance at the autopsy and histology.
By one woman from Czech who is specializing in bird nutrition I was recommended to feed like this : grass seeds, canary seeds, senegal sprays, herbs ( dendelion, chickweed, etc ), idoine supplement, dried insects maybe or some dried small fruits, sometimes a carrot, humac pro powder, wet grass seeds, brewing yeasts. Fruits and veggies are supposed not to be natural for them.
I can not get here organic green veggies, mainly in the winter, so, please, do not advise me that. And chickweed and dandelions grow not during whole the year, and mainly on polluted areas. So, i have to feed mainly seeds. budgies are conservative. My budgies also do not eat canary seeds or grass seeds.
And I can tell that I was not warned by my doctor or by the histology doctor that there was found some signs of nutritional defect.
I was recommended by somebody to light the rooms in winter by special light to produce vitamine D, but I do not believe that, sorry.
Ah! We did not know this before. These are good foods. Do you have access to milk thistle? This is a common treatment for liver disease. I'll put a photo of the plant at the bottom.

If you do not believe in the light to produce vitamin D, and they do not get sunlight, another choice is cod liver oil. Just a small bit stirred into seed. It goes rancid quickly so only mix what they will eat in a short time. Or they can eat egg yolk, or a fatty type fish.

I am not a huge fan of pellet food either but I do believe it has its place with some situations.

I love that your birds fly around. Flying birds are healthy birds. We'd love to see pictures!

I too have a bird room and mine are allowed to fly loose, although they all have cages.

If you aren't interested in these things, we cannot help you I'm afraid. Owning birds is about constant education and knowledge. I wrote a book that's on Amazon, Feeding Finches. You might take a look at it. The foods would be the same for budgies, just not chopped as small. Nutrition facts are the same.

milk thistle.jpg
 
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finchly

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I did not realize that during a necropsy they are able to check for nutritional deficiencies. @Mizzely @Monica is this the case?
 

Mizzely

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I did not realize that during a necropsy they are able to check for nutritional deficiencies. @Mizzely @Monica is this the case?
I'm honestly not sure. There must be some ways to detect some nutritional deficiencies post mortum, but I'm not sure to what extent.
 

sunnysmom

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Sorry for your loss.
 

Ivan Vanca

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Finchly, now.. you know, if you have any evidences that the hepatitis could be caused by a nutritional deficiency, please, let me know, thanks.
 

Ivan Vanca

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I do not understand the sentence with rancid, Finchly.
Of course, i know what is milk thistle, and the capsulle with silymarin should contain just silymarine, nothing else.... I wanted to order it from germany, but I forgot then.
I will send a photo later to you. My budgies are shy, they are scared of me.
Yes, I wrote you what I was recommended like a diet for budgies, but I am not able to force my budgies to eat grass seeds or canary seeds..., I am not a warrior, I am a kitty, so I gave up that.
Almost nobody uses the light with vitamine D, so lets skip this problem.
I have some vitamines ( Korvimine ), it is from germany, mostly for reptiles, but when I spread it on dry seeds, the powder can be lost in the bottom of the bowl.
What book did you write? About finches?
People, we are still talking about the liver and spleen tumor ( or leukemia ) - liver lymphoma and spleen lymphoma and hepatitis, not about vitamines defieciency, maybe you forgot that.
 

Bryan Black

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Where do you get your seeds and what brand are they? Are they a mixed seed or just sunflower seeds?
 
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