Ask on your opinion about sudden death of my budgie

[Monica]

Re: Hepatitis


(scroll down to Systemic Diseases - Hepatitis)

Pacheco's Disease - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/canres/21/1/26.full.pdf

 

[enigma731]

'Hepatitis' just means inflammation of the liver. We tend to think of it most commonly as being viral but it can be caused by many things, including toxic exposure and diet.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Thank you for the link. Yes, the histology doctor replied me today that metabollic disorders or diet faults could lead to the liver inflammation. Bacterial hepatitis was not confirmed from the previous budgie from OCtober, but I asked the doctor to send some sample on chlamydiosis investigation recently.
But he clearly claims it does not mean the lack of vitamins, because the lack of vitamins would be visible in the histology.
So, what should I change in the diet?
Concerning the last death about lymphoma he claims it can be an accidental mutations of the cells ( I do not believe in acciidental ). IT could be caused by leukemic virus, but it was not confirmed in the PCR method. He claims that also healthy animals can have some sudden acute deadly problem.
Monica, what is sad in the link you sent me? It is too hard for me, can you find and write some point to me? I know that PCR method is not reliable very much and it does not prove that my budgie Bilko did not have a virus. It was called by me vet. like a sterile hepatitis of the multifactorial origin. But the fact is that Bilko had in the past 2X some day when he was apathethic and fluffy.. he recovered after one day. IT was called by non specific inflammation of the digestive system.

 

[enigma731]

Cancers absolutely can be caused by random mutations of cells, particularly if there's a genetic predisposition. Budgies as a species tend to be very prone to cancer because of poor breeding practices.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Enigma, I know, you are right, but accidental, or is it activated by the stress? Vitko was found chlamydiosis now, but it showed NO PROBLEM in the organism.... on histology. So, something must activate that, maybe the stress, diet, etc. And Vitko was not an english budgie. Show budgies are the most prone to cancer. Vitko was thin not large maybe american budgie who should not be prone to that at all.

 

[enigma731]

American budgies are prone too. And I don't think there's any way you're going to get a conclusive answer to those questions. It was probably many things over lots of time, in a somewhat random combination. Even in human patients, it's rare to be able to pinpoint specific triggers of a disease like cancer. All we can do is try to make things as healthy as possible in terms of lifestyle.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Maybe yes, but there are some thoughts which are scaring me, like it is a message from the Universe that I should not have keep budgies anymore....because they will catch my psychical conditions and will get sick, etc.... Vitko was really healthy... in the same morning, few hours before the death, he flew into another room... just later he crashed due to liver encefalopathy... it was such very acute and quick that it will never stop to bother me.
And when I go to choose some 1 or 2 budgie males in March, I do not know how to choose a male who is dominant and vital, how to guess that....

 

[enigma731]

Okay, well, I don't think science has those answers, at least.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Answers for what exactly? For deatiled reasons why it happened?

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

detailed

 

[enigma731]

Correct.

 

[Monica]

I provided two links so I'm not sure which link you are referring to.

 

[Khizz]

I provided two links so I'm not sure which link you are referring to.

I think OP means both. The language in both links are too difficult for a learner of English (or indeed somebody without an academic /scientific background)

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

sorry, what is OP? I do not know whether it is mentioned there that proving herpesvirus ( pacheco disease ) is very hard after death too. I do not think my budgies with hepatitis and liver lymphoma had viruses. I have all my budgies in the panel house in closed area.

 

[Shezbug]

OP is short for original post.
People say OP if they are referring to the the first post or the first person who made the post.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

ok, thank you for your explanation, I did not know that.

 

[Sherry S]

All birds naturally hide illness to protect themselves in nature from predators. Predators pick off the weak in the wild. When a bird is sick, often it has been sick longer than you realize. This is because they hide their illness to appear as strong as the rest of the flock. Often times, when they start showing that they are sick, it is too late to do anything. (This is not always the case, but often is.)

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Sherry, yes, I have this experience from my budgie who suffered chronic kidney problem. The symptoms occure a moment before the death, but this male Vitko was young vital, just I felt his enlarged liver due to lymphoma. Dr. Ross Perry says that lymphoma is usually caused by virus, but iin PCR method Vitko was found negative on that.