Ask on your opinion about sudden death of my budgie

[finchly]

Finchly, now.. you know, if you have any evidences that the hepatitis could be caused by a nutritional deficiency, please, let me know, thanks.

From my studies - I believe hepatitis is often viral in nature but also can be caused by toxins. I have never heard of hepatitis being directly caused by a nutritional deficiency. But I have not studied too much about the causes! I've never had a bird with this disease.

I'm rearranging the sentence with rancid: Another choice is cod liver oil, but it It goes rancid (spoils, ruins) quickly so only mix what they will eat in a short time. Stir a little into their seed mix.

(sorry! My typing can't keep up with my brain.)

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Sunnysmom, thank you. I know my budgies have a good another life.
BRyan Black, no..., I used to buy versele laga, but I have not been buying that for a longer time. Mostly I use senegal millet sprays, or buying from Germany. No sunflower seeds there : Birds and more der große Onlineshop

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Well, I realize that I have some godetia oil or hazelnut oil specially for the bird for D vitamine supllement also, but one can hardly measure it to add into seeds. I also do not use humac powder and brewing yeasts very much, maybe just on boiled eggs.
MY budgie Bilko had hepatitis, but it did not look like a typical bacterial or viral hepatitis. Many viruses were checked, negative. But the PCR method is not such reliable at viruses like at bacterias. I think it was a stress from me which activated something.:-(

 

[Bryan Black]

So why not get some of the B14 from Versele Laga and add it in with the seeds? I know you think that pellets are bad but we use them over here all the time with great success.

B14

I find this product from Versele-Laga very interesting: B14

www.versele-laga.com

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

what is B14? I was told that versele laga or deli nature have too many proteins and are not suitable.... I had harrison pellets in the past, but I put them away, I am not a fan of that.

 

[Bryan Black]

what is B14? I was told that versele laga or deli nature have too many proteins and are not suitable.... I had harrison pellets in the past, but I put them away, I am not a fan of that.

Click the link in my post above to see it. The thing with pellets are they have all the vitamins and minerals needed for a bird so you do not have to worry as much.

Here is the levels in the B14 the only "bad" thing i see is the colorants/dyes so the G14 might be better..
Protein 14%, Fat content 8%, Crude fibre 5.50%, Crude ash 7%, Calcium 0.90%, Phosphorus 0.60%, Methionine 0.35%, Lysine 0.75%, Threonine 0.50%, Tryptophan 0.15%, Cystine 0.25%

G14 Original

I find this product from Versele-Laga very interesting: G14 Original

www.versele-laga.com

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

I think I could get it here without any problem, but I was not teaching my budgies for pellets. I had harrisons, but did not use them, maybe once.... My vet., doctor told me she did not see a reason why BUDGIES should eat the pellets, she has a good experience with seed based diet at budgies.

 

[Bryan Black]

Well I guess follow with what your vet is saying but seems like you are not having very good luck with something.. idk (good luck)

 

[tka]

Even if you live in an apartment, you can still grow some herbs and leafy greens indoors.

 

[Khizz]

Sunnysmom, thank you. I know my budgies have a good another life.
BRyan Black, no..., I used to buy versele laga, but I have not been buying that for a longer time. Mostly I use senegal millet sprays, or buying from Germany. No sunflower seeds there : Birds and more der große Onlineshop

I'm sorry to hear about your budgies
...

Out of interest, which of the mixes do you use from that website? Wellensittichfutter Classic? I speak German, I can possibly help with translation of the ingredients?

The reason to focus on diet is just because we just don't really have any other knowledge over the internet. Maybe if we start with what they were eating and if there isn't a problem we can think of other things that could have happened.

Sprichst du auch Deutsch?

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Also inside a panel house? The salads are hard to grow.... I can buy in a store... but growing?
BRyan Black, all the 3 budgies who died on liver problem, were from the same store, but Blue ( cholangiocarcinoma, probably a genetic problem ) was bought on 10. 2. 2013, she was already a little sick, I had her for 5 years and 4 months, Bilko was bought on 14. 3. 2013 ( hepatitis ), I had him for 6 years and more than 7 months, and Vitko was bought on 21. 9. 2017, I had him for more than 2 years and 3 months....
Now I have Vitko s partner who was also bought from this store with chlamydiossis, Vitko s and her 2 children and one another female who had 2 previous owners, aviaries... She also had sleeping chlamydiossis.
How would you recommend me to choose and buy another one or 2 male budgies? From the store, or breeder, should the budgies be of natural color, or what would you suggest?

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Khizz, no, my german is bad. Thanks. I ordered more types of those seeds, they have also maybe 7 different types of grass seeds...I also ordered something for my classmate from the high school who also have 2 budgies, one from the same store like I have. Sorry, I did not understand your point here : "The reason to focus on diet is just because we just don't really have any other knowledge over the internet. Maybe if we start with what they were eating and if there isn't a problem we can think of other things that could have happened. "
Till now nobody did tell me this could be connected with diet.... The pellets are not any protective element. But, I was mainly wonder on the opinions on that POSSIBLE neighbours with possible sabotage through the walls in the panel house.

 

[Mybluebird]

Just a thought - I googled "panel house" and it seems that it is a construction using prefabricated panels so that it is inexpensive and quick to build. It looks like they use foam insulation and laminates. I wonder if the problem may be outgassing of the materials which is causing the budgies problems. Maybe what is needed is a good air purifier with a HEPA filter?

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Honestly, I do not quite understand you. This panel house was probably built from some beton. Later some unheatlhy polystyrene was put there to be warmer, but it has nothing common with what happened, other budgies would be effective at the same time. I do not know what is that filter or what, sorry.

 

[Mybluebird]

OK - just a thought. So sorry you've lost you budgies and I hope someone can help you figure out what happened.

 

[Bryan Black]

Also inside a panel house? The salads are hard to grow.... I can buy in a store... but growing?
BRyan Black, all the 3 budgies who died on liver problem, were from the same store, but Blue ( cholangiocarcinoma, probably a genetic problem ) was bought on 10. 2. 2013, she was already a little sick, I had her for 5 years and 4 months, Bilko was bought on 14. 3. 2013 ( hepatitis ), I had him for 6 years and more than 7 months, and Vitko was bought on 21. 9. 2017, I had him for more than 2 years and 3 months....
Now I have Vitko s partner who was also bought from this store with chlamydiossis, Vitko s and her 2 children and one another female who had 2 previous owners, aviaries... She also had sleeping chlamydiossis.
How would you recommend me to choose and buy another one or 2 male budgies? From the store, or breeder, should the budgies be of natural color, or what would you suggest?

I don't know anything about chlamydiosis but just now read a little bit about it in an article and it seem like the birds can pass it on to humans too. I would not buy any birds till you know what is going on for sure. It seems like it might be hard to get rid of chlamydiosis and it said it can come back. Maybe someone else here knows more about it but this is the article I read about it just now..

Fact sheets - Avian chlamydiosis factsheet for bird carers and suppliers

Avian chlamydiosis

www.health.nsw.gov.au

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

mybluebird, I simply did not understand your suggestion, that is all...I can not blame the polystyrene for what happened to my budgies, those polystyrenes are there for more years and in every flat here.

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

Thank you, Bryan... Like I say, I bought this albino female budgie ( Vitko s partner ) in november 2018 to save her from the store.... The chlamydiosis were healed by doxycycline, and now I am dosing it again. But the blood tests showed there were no more chlamydiosis. Also my another budgie female from absolutely different place was found to have chlamydiosis ( budgie Glory ), but the chlamydiosis was not acting in her. Both were healed and were found negative later. But at the albino budgie ( Cicinka ) the eyes from the chlamydiosis stayed red, and it is unusual. Vitko was found chlamydiosis after death too, but the histology showed that in this case the chlamydiosis did not contribute to his death. When I end another 45 chlamydiosis treatment and my budgies will be negative, I will buy another one or 2 males... I can not exactly know what happened. You mean that if I do not know the cause of hepatitis and liver lymphoma exactly, I should not buy another budgies? Sorry, that is impossible.

 

[Bryan Black]

I just meant to make sure that the chlamydiosis is take care of and I would find a new place to buy any new birds from if/when you do. I don't know much about the forum but there is a budgie only forum that might be more helpful for you if you want more specific information on budgies.

Talk Budgies Forums

A forum community dedicated to budgie owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, health, behavior, molting, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!

www.talkbudgies.com

 

[Ivan.Vanca]

ok, thank you. I think I have a registration on this forum, and this is almost the same like the tailfeathersnetwork, or something like that. There is alo budgerigards proboard, but I was blocked there.
Of course, the chlamydiosis has to be treated. I will go on 29. 2. to have my budgies checked on their blood. But it could be hidden there,I do not know. I just know that I will not put the albino budgie away. Once I adopted her with her health trouble, she will stay here forever.