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Aggressive Conure I need help

Jismys

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Hi I have a green cheek conure since July 2015 he always been playful and sweet. Since about 6 month I noticed that he's changing it's at different times of the day and different occasions. Sometimes in the mirning coming out of the cage ir just being with me playing, it's on different occasions that he just starts to lash out at me and starts biting very hard it could be my shoulder my neck my ear my face my fingers. As he bites me he says " no biting" because I say that to him. I try to stay calm and not aggravate it more but it comes to a point where he bites stronger and stronger so I just usually try to get them off my shoulder with a towel and then wrap him up and put him back in his cage I leave him in there a few hours and try again. Sometime he us ok and friendly again ithere times I can't touch him for the rest of the day. Nothing has changed with schedule and feeding, I only stopped giving him Nutry Berries some people told me it makes them aggressive. He has a huge cage his own room with TV, lots of toys. I cant let him fly around the house because I have other animals. His wings have grown back so he loves to fly in his room ir when he is with me in the bedroom. I dont know what to do it comes to a point that I think I want to rehome him and it hurts me. Can you help with advice, thanks
 

Doublete

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It's hormones!
When you put hiM back for hours you're actually resetting the clock as his memory doesn't last that long.. he's getting whatever he wants and when you try again in a few hours you are starting from scratch.
When he bites you, you should remove your attention, place him back in his cage for a few minutes (let him know by body language that THAT is not acceptable flock behavior), and then go back and bring him out and handle him like it didn't happen.
But your shoulder should be offf limits until the biting has subsided. Practice ladder step up drills.
Reinforce the flock leader (YOU) status. He is trying to establish himself I believe.
Praise him when he steps up without biting or is exhibiting the behavior you want. My guy doesn't like treats. He wants praise.
 

Jismys

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Ok I will try. I am afraid now thats the problem.
 

Doublete

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Use a perch to handle him and do the ladder drills. Then he can't bite.
 

alshgs

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Try target training as well, it's helped a lot with my green cheek
 

AviaryByTheSea

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Hi I have a green cheek conure since July 2015 he always been playful and sweet. Since about 6 month I noticed that he's changing it's at different times of the day and different occasions. Sometimes in the mirning coming out of the cage ir just being with me playing, it's on different occasions that he just starts to lash out at me and starts biting very hard it could be my shoulder my neck my ear my face my fingers. As he bites me he says " no biting" because I say that to him. I try to stay calm and not aggravate it more but it comes to a point where he bites stronger and stronger so I just usually try to get them off my shoulder with a towel and then wrap him up and put him back in his cage I leave him in there a few hours and try again. Sometime he us ok and friendly again ithere times I can't touch him for the rest of the day. Nothing has changed with schedule and feeding, I only stopped giving him Nutry Berries some people told me it makes them aggressive. He has a huge cage his own room with TV, lots of toys. I cant let him fly around the house because I have other animals. His wings have grown back so he loves to fly in his room ir when he is with me in the bedroom. I dont know what to do it comes to a point that I think I want to rehome him and it hurts me. Can you help with advice, thanks
It is easy to point the finger and blame hormones... it's the go to for misunderstood behaviors. The painful truth is that BITING people is a LEARNED behavior in parrots. A wild bird would rarely (if ever) be aggressive and bite you. It would fly away instead. However, a bird that cannot fly away, i.e., a clipped bird in particular - yours was clipped until recently, quickly learns that to get you to leave it alone or to be put back into its cage... simply biting works! The expression is flight or fight after all, and clipping reduces the bird's choices to only one option, fight.

Sometimes biting is caused by “displaced aggression;” aggressive feelings directed towards an alternate object, in this case, you. Elevated aggressive behavior and displaced aggression are common with nest or mate defense situations. Is the aggression a respondent behavior, which is an involuntary component, similar to a reflex, that we simply cannot change through training techniques, If this is the case, you need to remove the stimuli causing the behavior.

The reality is you first need to identify the cause so you can evaluate and determine a solution for the biting behavior properly. You need to examine all the conditions that are present when the biting behavior first starts to occur the next time it happens. Did you do something to cause the bird to classify you as TTA (Things To be Avoided) at that particular moment? Understanding the cause allows us to identify operant components of the behavior of which we can change. For example... if the bird is biting to defend its mate or nest, then you can begin using your clicker to reinforce more appropriate behaviors. You need to provide and reinforce the bird with acceptable non-biting solutions. By training a new behavior, the bird can meet its involuntary response requirements in such a way that we can both be satisfied. IE: When the bird wants us to back off from its perceived mate (bird or human) or nest area - then we will immediately start to back off when it does some less aggressive behavior, such as puffing up and raising its wings... we click and back off.

To alter the biting behavior the first rule is ALWAYS AVOID BEING BITTEN. It never helps to let the bird bite you. Contrarily, an actual bite only makes things much worse. Being bitten changes your attitude toward the bird. Indeed you are already considering a rehoming solution... and it also often teaches the bird you will keep more distance from him.

If you fail to identify the cause, all hope is not lost... One thing you can do, often with great success, is to change your relationship with the bird straight away. Start clicker training. By teaching a few simple tricks, you will improve your communication and relationship with the bird as well as learn new skills and training techniques. Trick Training can be effective in modifying troublesome behavior such as biting, screaming or phobias of people. As the bird learns and is trained to perform a few simple tricks, typically many old troublesome behaviors will eventually vanish on their own. Whether you are planning on teaching basic tricks or tackling tough behavioral problems, it will be very helpful if both the trainer (you) and the trainee (your bird) learn a few basic concepts. Selecting an appropriate training environment for beginners is essential- a calm, quiet location with few to no visual or audible distractions will greatly help the bird remain focused. Once both you and the bird have mastered the learning process, it's an excellent practice to train in busy and loud locations - starting with already known behaviors and then advancing to new behaviors as the bird learns to remain focused and adapt to a variety of situations and conditions.

Selecting the “first” action to train can be important. The best behavior due to its simplicity and usefulness in the future is Targeting. Targeting = touching the end of a target stick. Targeting is specifically chosen as the first behavior because it initially consists of only two options, touch or not touch. There is no in-betweens steps to confuse the bird. Additionally, it is a prop behavior which is important because the bird is prevented from performing the action on its own to beg for additional treats. Treat begging prevention assists us in teaching and learning the concept of good stimulus control. Good stimulus control is quickly developed with advanced targeting concepts. Moving a distance to touch the stick. Touch the targeting stick on cue. Only touching the targeting stick on cue, etc.. Targeting can be trained with additional variations: Touch the stick with a different body part, Touch or move to a specified location (like inside a travel cage), fly to me to touch the stick. The targeting stick can be used to teach colors and shapes by cueing the yellow ball or the blue square block.

Its important to select a target stick that can be used for this purpose and this purpose only. To prevent the bird from becoming confused as to the purpose of the targeting stick, it is a good idea NOT to use a stick that are also used as a perch. Frequently target sticks include chop sticks, a wooden cooking spoon handle, or drinking straws.

Place the end of the target stick near the bird’s face and wait until it reaches out and makes contact with the target stick. The action of touching the stick should be the bird’s action and not the trainer’s action. When the animal does make contact, immediately bridge (click) the action, reinforce with a treat and repeat. It does not matter why the bird touches the stick, only that it does make contact. Some birds will reach out in curiosity, while other birds will react in anger or fear, and will defensively and aggressively attack the stick. This will not interfere with the animal learning to touch the target stick.

Some birds will respond with fear and make every effort to avoid or get away from the stick. With fearful birds, you may need to shape the desired behavior by breaking it down into smaller steps. You may need to start by reinforcing for merely looking at the target stick. Then reinforce the bird for allowing the target stick be a little closer, and so on. You might find it helpful to use a smaller target stick or hide most of the target stick behind your arm or up a sleeve and presenting only the very end. Usually with only a few repetitions of successful touching and being reinforced, the animal begins to loosen up and progress will be made quickly after that.
 

ThatsFowlPlay

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It is easy to point the finger and blame hormones... it's the go to for misunderstood behaviors. The painful truth is that BITING people is a LEARNED behavior in parrots. A wild bird would rarely (if ever) be aggressive and bite you. It would fly away instead. However, a bird that cannot fly away, i.e., a clipped bird in particular - yours was clipped until recently, quickly learns that to get you to leave it alone or to be put back into its cage... simply biting works! The expression is flight or fight after all, and clipping reduces the bird's choices to only one option, fight.

Sometimes biting is caused by “displaced aggression;” aggressive feelings directed towards an alternate object, in this case, you. Elevated aggressive behavior and displaced aggression are common with nest or mate defense situations. Is the aggression a respondent behavior, which is an involuntary component, similar to a reflex, that we simply cannot change through training techniques, If this is the case, you need to remove the stimuli causing the behavior.

The reality is you first need to identify the cause so you can evaluate and determine a solution for the biting behavior properly. You need to examine all the conditions that are present when the biting behavior first starts to occur the next time it happens. Did you do something to cause the bird to classify you as TTA (Things To be Avoided) at that particular moment? Understanding the cause allows us to identify operant components of the behavior of which we can change. For example... if the bird is biting to defend its mate or nest, then you can begin using your clicker to reinforce more appropriate behaviors. You need to provide and reinforce the bird with acceptable non-biting solutions. By training a new behavior, the bird can meet its involuntary response requirements in such a way that we can both be satisfied. IE: When the bird wants us to back off from its perceived mate (bird or human) or nest area - then we will immediately start to back off when it does some less aggressive behavior, such as puffing up and raising its wings... we click and back off.

To alter the biting behavior the first rule is ALWAYS AVOID BEING BITTEN. It never helps to let the bird bite you. Contrarily, an actual bite only makes things much worse. Being bitten changes your attitude toward the bird. Indeed you are already considering a rehoming solution... and it also often teaches the bird you will keep more distance from him.

If you fail to identify the cause, all hope is not lost... One thing you can do, often with great success, is to change your relationship with the bird straight away. Start clicker training. By teaching a few simple tricks, you will improve your communication and relationship with the bird as well as learn new skills and training techniques. Trick Training can be effective in modifying troublesome behavior such as biting, screaming or phobias of people. As the bird learns and is trained to perform a few simple tricks, typically many old troublesome behaviors will eventually vanish on their own. Whether you are planning on teaching basic tricks or tackling tough behavioral problems, it will be very helpful if both the trainer (you) and the trainee (your bird) learn a few basic concepts. Selecting an appropriate training environment for beginners is essential- a calm, quiet location with few to no visual or audible distractions will greatly help the bird remain focused. Once both you and the bird have mastered the learning process, it's an excellent practice to train in busy and loud locations - starting with already known behaviors and then advancing to new behaviors as the bird learns to remain focused and adapt to a variety of situations and conditions.

Selecting the “first” action to train can be important. The best behavior due to its simplicity and usefulness in the future is Targeting. Targeting = touching the end of a target stick. Targeting is specifically chosen as the first behavior because it initially consists of only two options, touch or not touch. There is no in-betweens steps to confuse the bird. Additionally, it is a prop behavior which is important because the bird is prevented from performing the action on its own to beg for additional treats. Treat begging prevention assists us in teaching and learning the concept of good stimulus control. Good stimulus control is quickly developed with advanced targeting concepts. Moving a distance to touch the stick. Touch the targeting stick on cue. Only touching the targeting stick on cue, etc.. Targeting can be trained with additional variations: Touch the stick with a different body part, Touch or move to a specified location (like inside a travel cage), fly to me to touch the stick. The targeting stick can be used to teach colors and shapes by cueing the yellow ball or the blue square block.

Its important to select a target stick that can be used for this purpose and this purpose only. To prevent the bird from becoming confused as to the purpose of the targeting stick, it is a good idea NOT to use a stick that are also used as a perch. Frequently target sticks include chop sticks, a wooden cooking spoon handle, or drinking straws.

Place the end of the target stick near the bird’s face and wait until it reaches out and makes contact with the target stick. The action of touching the stick should be the bird’s action and not the trainer’s action. When the animal does make contact, immediately bridge (click) the action, reinforce with a treat and repeat. It does not matter why the bird touches the stick, only that it does make contact. Some birds will reach out in curiosity, while other birds will react in anger or fear, and will defensively and aggressively attack the stick. This will not interfere with the animal learning to touch the target stick.

Some birds will respond with fear and make every effort to avoid or get away from the stick. With fearful birds, you may need to shape the desired behavior by breaking it down into smaller steps. You may need to start by reinforcing for merely looking at the target stick. Then reinforce the bird for allowing the target stick be a little closer, and so on. You might find it helpful to use a smaller target stick or hide most of the target stick behind your arm or up a sleeve and presenting only the very end. Usually with only a few repetitions of successful touching and being reinforced, the animal begins to loosen up and progress will be made quickly after that.
Very detailed!! Yes it is true that biting is not because of hormones.
 

Doublete

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Respectfully, I disagree.
It can be hormonal. At a certain age biting is used to determine where he will stand in the flock. And if you are not the flock leader, he will bite you frequently....
ETA: a teenager learning where they stand in the community so to speak...
 

Monica

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Respectfully, I disagree.
It can be hormonal. At a certain age biting is used to determine where he will stand in the flock. And if you are not the flock leader, he will bite you frequently....
ETA: a teenager learning where they stand in the community so to speak...
Respectfully, I disagree.

The Struggle for Dominance



IMO, labeling a behavior as "dominance" or an animal "trying to be alpha" is a lack of training and communication, not trying to be the leader. There is no proof that dominance exists in the wild. Will they fight over mates? Perches? Nesting locations? Food? Of course! But that doesn't make the bird the dominant one or the alpha one... it simply means that bird won that fight. The next fight they might not win.

I like to compare it to putting $50 million in a bag and putting that into a brand new car. Lets say it's a Tesla! Then take 50 random people and tell them that whoever can keep the cash to themselves gets the money and the car! If say, person #23 is able to keep all the cash to themselves, they aren't the dominant one! They are simply the winner. Lets say we do this same scenario, same people. Maybe next time, the winner will be #46?


I found these pages to be of interest...

Study Reports
Pionus Parrots’ Wild Habits | Petcha
Companion Parrots | Natural Encounters, Inc.
 

AviaryByTheSea

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Respectfully, I disagree.
It can be hormonal. At a certain age biting is used to determine where he will stand in the flock. And if you are not the flock leader, he will bite you frequently....
ETA: a teenager learning where they stand in the community so to speak...

The interaction between hormones and behavior is bidirectional... hormones influence behavior and behavior can influence hormone levels. Hormones are chemical messengers released into the blood to influence the nervous system to regulate behaviors such as aggression, mating, and parenting. Hormones do not cause behaviors... the aggressive act of biting someone is a learned behavior, just as if puffing up and spreading its wings had been reinforced or singing as aggressive deterrent behavior like male zebra finches do...

Hormones influence behavior so that specific stimuli are more likely to elicit certain responses... simply stated Hormones change the probability that a learned preferred behavior will occur in a particular situation. This is a critical distinction. Aggressive Biting of people is learned. Which is very different than other forms of biting.
 

Doublete

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Eh.
What do I know. I'm no good at communicating how to train people how to work with animals. I train animals professionally and read them very well and seldom have issues myself. I choose never to train people because I can't put it into words right.

So nevermind.

Good luck.
 

Monica

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Eh.


What do I know. I'm no good at communicating how to train people how to work with animals. I train animals professionally and read them very well and seldom have issues myself. I choose never to train people because I can't put it into words right.

So nevermind.

Good luck.
All the trainers and people I recommend do not believe in dominance or being the alpha leader of a flock. People such as Barbara Heidenreich, Lara Joseph, Susan Friedman and more. Their training techniques are certainly a different mindset as compared to some other trainers.


I've put this list together of trainers and information I do recommend.

Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


I agree that if a bird is biting that you need to get the bird off of you. What I don't necessarily agree with is putting him back in his cage. If the bird is biting, and you aren't around their cage, then the bird can go on a chair, a couch, a table, heck, even the floor! The simple act of taking the bird all the way to the cage could be reinforcing for the bird and teach the bird to bite to go back to their cage. Not all birds desire human interaction, so going back to the cage would be a good thing.


I do agree that attention away from you should be short. Heck, it could even be a few seconds! Waiting hours though? Yeah, that doesn't teach the bird anything....


I do not agree with laddering, if laddering entails forcing the bird to step up and ignoring their bites. If laddering is about *asking* the bird to step up (i.e. showing hand but not pushing into the stomach or lifting nails or unbalancing them in any way), and rewarding each successful step up, then yes, I could agree with this.



Sexual hormones can make birds more "trigger happy" when it comes to bites, but it's not the direct reason of those bites.



I don't assert my "leadership" when it comes to my birds. Rather, I teach my birds to do behaviors because they want to, not because they have to. I once accidentally taught one of my cockatiels to station for head scritches. She learned that if she waited on a particular perch, she would get scritches. She didn't learn the behavior because I kept placing her there every time she moved from the spot. Jayde learned to trust in humans again. If I didn't need to, I never forced her off of her cage. Instead, I moved the cage around my house so she could still be with me without having to be on me. I gave her the choice to be on me. If she became afraid, I would always take her back to her cage. Now? She happily enjoys spending time with me and seeks me out instead of her cage. Pistachio, an ex-breeder cockatiel, learned to trust me and be less skittish simply by feeding him food by hand. I don't clip my birds wings, not even for training. They step up because they want to, not because they have to.


If you haven't read "Don't Shoot the Dog!" by Karen Pryor, I highly recommend it! :)
 

Doublete

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Again I don't communicate well with people on how to train animals! So forget listening to me!
I train animals not people. I tend not to have issues with any of my animals for reasons unknown.

I train horses anyways.

Carry on im not arguing.
 

Monica

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My apologies, for I was not trying to argue. Only simply stating my own opinions so you may be able to see where some of us are coming from in regards to training. :)
 

Doublete

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I dont communicate what I mean well which has been made abundantly clear.
I'll stick with reading my animals and training them as i have much more success keeping them happy than I do people.
 

Doublete

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Odds are I mean what you are saying and if you watched how I interact with my animals you would see that. But again, I dont know how to put it into words.
 

AviaryByTheSea

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All the trainers and people I recommend do not believe in dominance or being the alpha leader of a flock. People such as Barbara Heidenreich, Lara Joseph, Susan Friedman and more. Their training techniques are certainly a different mindset as compared to some other trainers.


I've put this list together of trainers and information I do recommend.

Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


If you haven't read "Don't Shoot the Dog!" by Karen Pryor, I highly recommend it! :)

Cheers to that...

I am ecstatic to see you left off the 2 instant youtube experts who I vehemently despise...
 

Monica

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I dont communicate what I mean well which has been made abundantly clear.
I'll stick with reading my animals and training them as i have much more success keeping them happy than I do people.
Odds are I mean what you are saying and if you watched how I interact with my animals you would see that. But again, I dont know how to put it into words.

Just curious.... do you have videos of you working with birds? I mean, that way, we can see how you handle and train them? Since showing may be easier than telling?
 

rockybird

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I agree that you need to identify what is causing the biting. I doubt it is hormonal. Whenever my parrots have bitten, there has always been a reason. The main reason is that they DO NOT want to go back to the cage or they want OUT of the cage and I didnt get them out on schedule. Any motion that they think is going to put them back into the cage could cause biting.

Ultimately, with biting, You need to identify the cause of the bite and take actions to avoid the bite. Also, listen to your bird, in biting he is trying to tell you something - "I'm mad at you for leaving me in the cage too long. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. I want the pen you are holding. I dont want to go into the cage. When you groom my pin feathers, it hurts. Don't touch me there. " They really have no other method to communicate with you to tell you they are angry, hungry, thirsty, hurt, uncomfortable. And honestly, there is always a reason for a bite.

The biggest offender as a young bird was my maroon belly conure, who went through a very nippy stage at about a year of age. If she bit me, I would do anything I could (without hurting her) to get her off of me and walk away. If this meant taking off my shirt with her on it, then I did. I would turn my back and leave her, out of sight. She did not like this at all. I would hide and hear her whimpering. I always made sure she was safe and would go back to her after maybe 30 secs. This worked amazingly well because she was scared to be out alone. I also quit letting her on my shoulder for awhile. Any time I reached my hand up, she assumed it meant I was trying to take her off to put her in the cage and she would bite me.

Another reason she will bite is if she is mad at me for not taking her out of the cage fast enough. She used to bite if I did not take her out of the IMMEDIATELY upon arriving home from work. If she bit, I let her flutter to the cage floor instead of taking her out, turned on my heels, and walked away. After maybe 10-15 mins., I would go back to get her. It only took a couple times before she was very carefully sidestepping onto my hand, trying so be careful not to touch it with her beak. Also, jealousy for playing with the other birds or ignoring her and speaking with someone else or on the cell phone.

My parrots will also get mad if I do not follow the routine schedule in removing them from the cage. They will get mad if they think they have been in the cage too long. My maroon belly conure used to bite if I was holding objects she wanted (shiny scissors, plastic grocery bags). She has nipped when she is hungry, thirsty, or I touched a sensitive pin feather.

The other thing I did was teach her UP. I put her on a suitcase handle and we practiced it a few times. She is very intelligent and learned it quickly.

Lastly, some biting is inevitable. If you can identify the cause of the bite, but know it will still happen, do what you can to avoid it. In other words, if you come home late and you know your bird will bite you, open the cage door and let him out on his own instead of putting your hand in. With my caique, who becomes angry at me if he thinks I am ignoring him or not sticking to a routine, I will handle him with a shirt or soft cloth. If he is angry at me, instead of offering my hand, I will dangle a shirt in front of him that he will latch to.

You have to remember that these are wild animals. They are not dogs or cats, bred to be pets. They are extremely intelligent social animals. Biting may be a way of communication. They are trying to tell you something. Really make an effort to identify the cause and to keep your bird. You may have to change what YOU do - i.e. Take your bird out of the cage more often. Make sure he has water and food out when he is with you. Don't put him on your shoulder. When he bites, turn and walk away to let him know it is not acceptable, but at the same time try to identify what the cause is. Good luck!
 
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