Urgent African Grey's lower eyelids swollen with minimal to no vocalization and puffy neck. Already took him to the emergency vet last night...

[DF_5644]

Hello everyone, I hope you're all having a great holiday. I was recommended here from Reddit in hopes of getting more information or second opinions on some symptoms our African Grey has been suffering since yesterday afternoon.

I will preface this post by saying that my sister and I had already spent 6 hours at the emergency vet last night once we noticed our 16 year old African Grey showing symptoms we have never seen from him, and after a few diagnostics from the vet, received non-closure answers on what it could be.

Around 3 o'clock yesterday, I had noticed he was making odd vocalizations that I've never heard before. While his natural voice and mimicry is higher pitched, the sounds he was making sounded similar to a brief squeak of a chicken toy or even a duck call. This vocalization is what caused me to come over to take a look, but when I approached him, he was hanging upside down in his cage (as he normally does), his eyes appeared bulgy, and his lower eyelids in particular looked swollen / half shut, with no discoloration at the time. We also noticed that he couldn't blink or close his eyes which has still been the issue even throughout the night.

Within about a half hour, we got him in his carrier and headed to the closest animal hospital. He had no lethargy or no other signs of anything wrong other than his voice and his eyes. He was still able to perch, climb, try to chew out of his carrier, and was completely aware of his surroundings, as noted by the vets examining him.

When the emergency vet talked to us (not the exotic bird vet she was working with), she explained that the odd vocalization could be an upper respiratory issue, but didn't say what kind. She also suggested that the eye issue was not related (I'm still very skeptical of this, despite trying to keep trust in a professional looking at and diagnosing him), and said the eyes could be indicative of a heart issue.

The final diagnosis based on an x-ray and in-house blood test results was that they suspect cardiovascular and/or liver disease. They found torturous cardiac vessels, and his liver appeared "smaller". The upper respiratory symptoms could be signs of a infectious disease, but nothing was fully ruled out.

We were sent home with eye drops, painkiller, antibiotic, anti-inflammatory, and milk thistle for his liver.

We are still unsure how much rest he got last night since we still haven't seen his eyes fully closed once since the issues have been present. We kept things warm and quiet outside of his cage on a flat surface, but his eye swelling hasn't improved, and he still hasn't been vocalizing much, if at all. We gave him his antibiotic, eye drops and painkiller this morning and while he seems tired, he's not lethargic, as he's trying to climb up the furniture.

As of this morning, we also noticed his neck was puffy and his posture of his neck is almost curving, while his stance is a little lower than normal. Right now he's back in his cage, drank some water by himself from his bowl, and is perched up in front of it on his heated perch next to a heated pad trying to rest, by the looks of it. But his eyes have not improved and he has only eaten very little.

We're looking for any thoughts or previous experiences from anyone on here to get a gauge on what causes these symptoms, mainly his eyes that still look like this (also notice the fluffiness / bulging in his neck):

http://imgur.com/a/ckbXq9Z

http://imgur.com/hvui3Xe

Any response is appreciated. He's only 16 years old. He is very active in his cage, gets fresh water every day, has a primary diet of pellets, grain cereal, chicken and occasionally eggs, and even as late as Saturday night looked fine and was vocalizing as normal. We have a follow up appointment dated in a couple of weeks after the antibiotic course is done.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Toy]

His crop looks swollen & you said he's not eating much, so it could be infection/sour crop. Both eyes swollen suggests this was not from an injury, but some health issue. The lower stance is because he is not feeling well & could be in pain.

No idea really....just suggestions .... could be vitamin A deficiency. What kind of grain cereal are you feeding him & how much daily? He needs veggies daily, leafy greens, carrots, sweet potatoes(cooked), peas, mixed veggies, etc. Veggies can be offered fresh, except for potatoes, or you can steam the veggies some & then cooled to room temp. NO avocado, onion or garlic. Could be a crop infection. I'd suggest you locate an Avian Vet & make the trip to get him properly tested. Birds hide illness until it's bad, so get him to an Avian Vet ASAP. Keep him warm & quiet until then. If he's not eating on his own you may need to hand feed moistened pellets to keep his strength up. Birds can't go more than 3 days without food or they become too weak to digest food & to keep their body temp up. Soak some pellets in hot water for several minutes until a little soft, but not mush. Drain & place one pellet in his beak at a time. Let him swallow them. 10 pellets or so should be enough at one feeding. Feed 3 times a day. I'd limit his out of cage time for now, as he uses up strength walking, flying climbing.

Best wishes.

 

[DF_5644]

His crop looks swollen & you said he's not eating much, so it could be infection/sour crop. Both eyes swollen suggests this was not from an injury, but some health issue. The lower stance is because he is not feeling well & could be in pain.

No idea really....just suggestions .... could be vitamin A deficiency. What kind of grain cereal are you feeding him & how much daily? He needs veggies daily, leafy greens, carrots, sweet potatoes(cooked), peas, mixed veggies, etc. Veggies can be offered fresh, except for potatoes, or you can steam the veggies some & then cooled to room temp. NO avocado, onion or garlic. Could be a crop infection. I'd suggest you locate an Avian Vet & make the trip to get him properly tested. Birds hide illness until it's bad, so get him to an Avian Vet ASAP. Keep him warm & quiet until then. If he's not eating on his own you may need to hand feed moistened pellets to keep his strength up. Birds can't go more than 3 days without food or they become too weak to digest food & to keep their body temp up. Soak some pellets in hot water for several minutes until a little soft, but not mush. Drain & place one pellet in his beak at a time. Let him swallow them. 10 pellets or so should be enough at one feeding. Feed 3 times a day. I'd limit his out of cage time for now, as he uses up strength walking, flying climbing.

Best wishes.

I appreciate the reply.

We feed him generic cheerios (Toasted Oats), whole wheat Chex, and granola with raisins mixed in with the pellets. We had fed him mixed vegetables and unseasoned, unbuttered mashed potatoes sometimes, but seems to not eat the vegetables so we haven't bothered in a while (after trying most of the spring and summer). We're still waiting on more blood test results from last night. The only thing they said was elevated was something with his bile from his liver, hence why the emergency vet suspected the liver issues (and the small size of his liver).

I will try to feed him the moistened pellets, but right now he's not even wanting to eat his favorite treat. We're going to try giving him more banana, since that was the only thing he was interested when he came home last night, mixed with oatmeal and see if he'll even take a nibble.

Thank you. I hope you're having a great holiday!

 

[Pixiebeak]

The hock sitting is generalized weakness, from what ever this health issue is.
A concern with greys is always calcium levels ,low calcium can cause weakness, neurology and other symptom, vitamin D and calcium are linked .
His eyes , kinda seem like neurological to me, I can be wrong. Illness can cause neurology as well as the mentioned possible low calcium levels. Or the eyes can just be from illness alone ...but the first thing I thought was neurological

I would book an avian veterinarian appointment for as soon as they are open after holidays and not wait. This seems way to urgent to me.

Heavy metal toxicity is a possibility.
Crop impaction, or non digestible object , or infection .

What do poops look like ? Can you share a picture of them , not a first morning poop.

Has weight changed?

I would get baby bird formula, I always use kaytee. Make a little thicker than directed for babies , like Greek yogurt thickness.. temperature is not as important for adults, but this still prefer it nice and warm . It's easy to digest and will also provide him fluids , and katee has some probiotics in it I believe, thst could help a little in balancing flora . For a grey about 14 ml at a time , but offer less the first time like around 7ml . I would try for 14 ml twice a day to support till you get to the vet. My birds all like the baby bird formula and I can give with a syringe at beak tip slowly with breaks , I offer a beak full at time , i do not put the syringe in the beak. I let them stand head free, with one hand on their back . They will also take from fingers, from a bowl , I didn't have luck with a spoon but some people do.
When I make the formula it weighs one gram per one ml. I weigh them before I give it, I weigh them after . Then in 4 hours I'm weigh them again, their weight should drop by half the amount I fed. Example, my bird weighs 100 grams before feeding, I feed 7 ml , after feeding birds weighs 107 grams. In 4 hours when I went them again usually drop to 103 gram. Shows food is moving through the crop. Now if I'm doing full support and feeding every 4 hours during the day , ( I stop at bedtime) they will slowly go up a little, but before each next feeding the weight will have dropped s little. So if I fed again in 4 hours they are the 103 , after feeding 110, by the next four hour feeding maybe they are 107..
By the next morning they will be at their original weight of 100 grams , or if I'm trying to get weight gain back ( with the more than twice a day feeding) the most they gain in a single day is 2 grams . Your bird is much larger , so your numbers will be different. But you want them to be back at their original weight in morning or only a small gain , to show everything is moving through their system. If their weight is less , then they need more support feeds. 4 is the most i have done spread out every 3-4 hours during the day , break and let sleep at night.
Adult crops don't stretch like a baby birds. It's ok to just support with less if they are eating on own , don't tolerate well. You could try 15 ml day total but spread out to 3 feedings .
The average your size adult bird will take in one feeding is around 14 ml .
The average my 100-130 gram birds will take in one feed is 4ml- 7ml ,the most I have had them take in one feeding is 10ml.

I spent do much time on this , because I think support calories are so important for sick birds. Plus the benefits of the little extra liquid in baby birds formula.. sick birds can require double to five times their well level of calories.

But because of possible crop issues, you want to make sure it is moving through them, that crop isn't getting larger and everything sitting in there.

 

[Pixiebeak]

Human cereal contains iron and zinc, I don't recommend feeding it other than a rare treat.
Zinc toxicity is a possibility..

Baked and puree sweet potato served warm are often liked, great source of vitamin A. You could also try scrambled eggs or boiled egg.

Banana are mostly sugar and not much else. If it's all he will eat it's better than nothing. But maybe puree and mix with the softened pellets. If you don't feel comfortable trying baby bird formula.

 

[Pixiebeak]

One graphic pic in link

Loading…

www.sciencedirect.com

This one also talks zinc and lead

Common Avian Emergencies | Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital

The critically ill avian patient The most commonly presented avian emergency is that of the critically ill bird. Most often these are birds are found on the bottom of the cage with little if any history of prior signs of illness. The symptoms, visual examination, and initial diagnostics will...

www.drexotic.com

 

[DF_5644]

The hock sitting is generalized weakness, from what ever this health issue is.
A concern with greys is always calcium levels ,low calcium can cause weakness, neurology and other symptom, vitamin D and calcium are linked .
His eyes , kinda seem like neurological to me, I can be wrong. Illness can cause neurology as well as the mentioned possible low calcium levels. Or the eyes can just be from illness alone ...but the first thing I thought was neurological

I would book an avian veterinarian appointment for as soon as they are open after holidays and not wait. This seems way to urgent to me.

Heavy metal toxicity is a possibility.
Crop impaction, or non digestible object , or infection .

What do poops look like ? Can you share a picture of them , not a first morning poop.

Has weight changed?

I would get baby bird formula, I always use kaytee. Make a little thicker than directed for babies , like Greek yogurt thickness.. temperature is not as important for adults, but this still prefer it nice and warm . It's easy to digest and will also provide him fluids , and katee has some probiotics in it I believe, thst could help a little in balancing flora . For a grey about 14 ml at a time , but offer less the first time like around 7ml . I would try for 14 ml twice a day to support till you get to the vet. My birds all like the baby bird formula and I can give with a syringe at beak tip slowly with breaks , I offer a beak full at time , i do not put the syringe in the beak. I let them stand head free, with one hand on their back . They will also take from fingers, from a bowl , I didn't have luck with a spoon but some people do.
When I make the formula it weighs one gram per one ml. I weigh them before I give it, I weigh them after . Then in 4 hours I'm weigh them again, their weight should drop by half the amount I fed. Example, my bird weighs 100 grams before feeding, I feed 7 ml , after feeding birds weighs 107 grams. In 4 hours when I went them again usually drop to 103 gram. Shows food is moving through the crop. Now if I'm doing full support and feeding every 4 hours during the day , ( I stop at bedtime) they will slowly go up a little, but before each next feeding the weight will have dropped s little. So if I fed again in 4 hours they are the 103 , after feeding 110, by the next four hour feeding maybe they are 107..
By the next morning they will be at their original weight of 100 grams , or if I'm trying to get weight gain back ( with the more than twice a day feeding) the most they gain in a single day is 2 grams . Your bird is much larger , so your numbers will be different. But you want them to be back at their original weight in morning or only a small gain , to show everything is moving through their system. If their weight is less , then they need more support feeds. 4 is the most i have done spread out every 3-4 hours during the day , break and let sleep at night.
Adult crops don't stretch like a baby birds. It's ok to just support with less if they are eating on own , don't tolerate well. You could try 15 ml day total but spread out to 3 feedings .
The average your size adult bird will take in one feeding is around 14 ml .
The average my 100-130 gram birds will take in one feed is 4ml- 7ml ,the most I have had them take in one feeding is 10ml.

I spent do much time on this , because I think support calories are so important for sick birds. Plus the benefits of the little extra liquid in baby birds formula.. sick birds can require double to five times their well level of calories.

But because of possible crop issues, you want to make sure it is moving through them, that crop isn't getting larger and everything sitting in there.

Thank you for the info. He's a bit of a picky eater, so we've been basing his daily diet off the pellets and cereal for over a decade, while usually making him something healthy for dinner (such as chicken mostly, sometimes with the veggies he likes), and for breakfast, eggs and sometimes pancakes with nothing on them.

His poop this morning didn't look too odd...it was a creamy white consistency, no green or anything in it. Unfortunately, that's the only poop we've seen from him today, but he could have went when one of us stepped out of the room for a second or didn't notice. He weighed in at 470 grams at the vet yesterday, which was more of less in the zone he's been for the past two years. His primary vet in 2021 wanted him to bulk up so he gave us vitamin supplements we've been giving to him two times a week since, but when we visited the same vet in the summer, he said he actually lost a *small* amount of weight. Not much, but didn't gain which was the odd thing.

that crop isn't getting larger and everything sitting in there.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand.

 

[Pixiebeak]

If he is not pooping, it can be he isn't taking in enough food. Or things are not moving through.

If he has some type of impaction, or inflammation in crop , or elsewhere, then the crop wouldn't empty.

It started to get all kinds of more complicated than we are able to help. We aren't veterinary, can't diagnose, can't come up with every possiblity.

Like with crop, is it filing air?, is it neurological? is it because his body is shutting down? , is it an infection? , or foreign body? , an obstruction? A tear/perf ? , an illusion because of abnormal way he is holding it? I don't know.....

So if I offered and got them to take food, but the crop got larger , with or without pooping. I would stop and not give/inncourage more food by hand. But I would still let them have food available and let them decide if they want to eat.

 

[Pixiebeak]

I just wanted to add, I'm hoping what the emergency vet gave you will see you through the night. But even if a little better in the morning, I would get right to an avain veterinarian specialist tomorrow. You bird is really sick , what ever is going on, it is serious..