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Vendor Etiquette?

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EkkieLu

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My vets opinion....he didn't believe it all to be salt related, rather in the medicinal herd stuff and daily advantage, too much can block nutrients,
Or have a reverse factor and enhance other nutrients making it more potent.
For example, like grapefruit for humans, it's good right? Eat it after taken blood pressure meds will cause your blood pressure to go way up. This is just a relative example so you get my point here.
Too much salt increases uric acid which is Sergei's problem. He loved the snacks and mashes. He goes back to his vet on September 10th for more bloodwork to see if the acid levels are dropping. After his bath the other day I noticed a lump in his shoulder. Ugh! I'm going to get that examined and see what's going on.
 

calibird

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I didn't worry about that one bit. She was very nice about it when I told her the packages showed up. She really, really tried to get me to keep them, said well, you got free food then. Tried eveything, feed the wild birds, donate it. But, I followed the recommendation of my CC company and sent them back and had no problem being nice back and telling her that was what I felt I needed to do... follow what I was told to do. She even insisted it would cost me money to mail those two packages back. I said "Well, I don't know about that but what I do know is what I'm told to do by the CC company and that's what I'm going to do."

IT DIDN'T COST ME A DIME TO SEND THEM BACK. And I got a receipt from the post office marked refusal so I'm good to go. Had I of kept those packages per her insistence she could have filed a dispute against me. I got those letters from the CC company in the mail today verifying my refunds for my dispute with that added tidbit about the merchant could contest my claim.
Anytime a package is shipped through the Post Office that is unopened it can be returned free of charge. Just put "refused return to sender" on the box.
So glad that you were able to get your money back.
 

Just-passn-thru

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Yea ...I ordered alot!! And that was just the start.
I figured I spend a lot of time making chop and using my dehydrator, freezing cut up food, I had little time for other things. So I got all this from WD's to make life a little easier, free up some time.
Can't say it was "all" bad stuff, just haven't identified the culprit that began making my birds sick, dry, and very thirsty all the time.
Thirst can be indicative of Kidney function
Kidney Disorders in Birds. ... There are many causes of kidney problems including infections (bacterial, viral, fungal, and parasitic), tumors (common in budgies), toxic insults, certain nutritional excesses, metabolic disorders (such as gout) and blockages or obstructions.
upload_2019-8-27_13-30-53.png
Veterinarians & Emergency Vets | VCA Animal Hospitals › kidney-di...
Kidney Disorders in Birds | VCA Animal
 

Hawk12237

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Thirst can be indicative of Kidney function
Kidney Disorders in Birds. ... There are many causes of kidney problems including infections (bacterial, viral, fungal, and parasitic), tumors (common in budgies), toxic insults, certain nutritional excesses, metabolic disorders (such as gout) and blockages or obstructions.
View attachment 313935
Veterinarians & Emergency Vets | VCA Animal Hospitals › kidney-di...
Kidney Disorders in Birds | VCA Animal

Great post Suzanne. And all that is very true.
My vet is leaning towards allergenic issues, toxin, nutritional excess as the blood tests point to it. Hopefully, it didn't cause an uptick in kidney failure. But he's confident that it didn't.
He examined some of my packets of food, and really did not like the medicinal herb remedy. Nor the daily advantage stuff. Said that could be my culprit.
When poppers and greyson gets her full check up in a few weeks after being off everything, and back on my diet, well be able to confirm this.
 

Just-passn-thru

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I bought a ton of WD stuff too. Which items had salt and/or sugars in I don't know either. I trashed well over a dozen bags. I'm not taking any chances!
I threw everything i ordered away. Even before all this upset with Vendor. I dont like not having nutrition percentages labeled for reference. And the lack of feeding and cooking instructions. Didn't like the bird bread mixes after guessing on how to prepare. The Birds didn't like it either. In fact they didn't like any of it. I'll stick with Harrison's high potency coarse, they love it!
Harrison's bird breads are a favorite with our flock . I add fresh yams or chilies and other fresh veggies for variety. I offer veggies and small amount of quality seed mix. Variety in fresh unprocessed beans and grains. It's a little more work but peace of mind knowing and having control with quality of feed for my animals, is well worth it.
 

Rain Bow

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Great post Suzanne. And all that is very true.
My vet is leaning towards allergenic issues, toxin, nutritional excess as the blood tests point to it. Hopefully, it didn't cause an uptick in kidney failure. But he's confident that it didn't.
He examined some of my packets of food, and really did not like the medicinal herb remedy. Nor the daily advantage stuff. Said that could be my culprit.
When poppers and greyson gets her full check up in a few weeks after being off everything, and back on my diet, well be able to confirm this.
I'm so glad I didn't buy the herbal/kings gold etc...
 

Just-passn-thru

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Hopefully, it didn't cause an uptick in kidney failure. But he's confident that it didn't.
They should normalize, unless its a Metabolic disorder not caused by diet . Of course long term poor, or unbalanced nutrition may contribute to organ damage, I don't think this is the case with you're birds.
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Anytime a package is shipped through the Post Office that is unopened it can be returned free of charge. Just put "refused return to sender" on the box.
So glad that you were able to get your money back.
Me too! I expected it to take longer and pleasantly surprised at the shorter time. This vendor was pretty insistent that it would cost me to mail them back, though I knew others who had refused their packages and didn't have to pay so I just kept to my guns.... the CC company told me to not open them and send them back. I did get a receipt from the P.O. for the refusal. She must know if her packages aren't opened they can be returned. She really tried to convince me to keep them.
 

rocky'smom

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Maybe I missed it, but have you noticed that the medicinal herb remedy is not on her site anymore!?
It's still there I just looked.
 

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They should normalize, unless its a Metabolic disorder not caused by diet . Of course long term poor, or unbalanced nutrition may contribute to organ damage, I don't think this is the case with you're birds.
My birds eat a great diet, to be honest. They don't get crap. My grey isn't bad at all, elavated, but can be brought back down.
My zon on the other hand was elavated higher in some areas, are far cry from her January yearly check up which was normal. So this wasn't long term, a few months. She doesn't have fatty liver, no current kidney problems, her blood test results pointed to allergenic. As vet mentioned, sulfides and sulfates used in food preservation, primarily fruits, Aren't good.
Basically, each type of parrot has different dietary needs. Sure, you have common nutritional needs that are common in all speices.
However, even the very suppliments birds get from a balanced diet of fruit, veggies , sprouts, and seeds, lentils and beans, could very well cause the allergic reaction to begin with. It does happen. The allergy can cause releases of hystimine which is evident in seeing blood results.



 

Hawk12237

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They should normalize, unless its a Metabolic disorder not caused by diet . Of course long term poor, or unbalanced nutrition may contribute to organ damage, I don't think this is the case with you're birds.
Like you, I now went back to fresh, as I have done for 45 years. It's a piece of mind as well knowing that from fresh, they get their nutrition and balance.
 

Hawk12237

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I wanted to share this as I got an opinion from vet and a friend of his from Michigan State University Yesterday. When my birds went into vet, I left a couple packages of wD's products with them.
Their opinions.....
The food is actually no different than that you would get any where else. Most packaged food for birds is not organic per se, and the concern for peanut butter peanut products, is used in some birds foods.
Supreme smart selects and supreme fruit blend does this. They are required to post allergen warning on their products that all their products are manufactured in a plant that processes peanuts and tree nuts.
That said, it's not believed to be a food problem with Dailey food, per se, but rather the process of which it is made can be questionable.
The dehydration of her food that is. Since the removal of the water concentrates the sugar in the fruit. This could cause problems.
In the dehydration process, you lose a great deal of nutrients and vitamins. For example, kale and basil fresh, has loads of vitamins, but once dehydrated, only retains about 4% of what it originally had. There are lots of different kinds of nutrients which gets lost at the time of drying food. Now freeze drying food like Danita does, will retain more vitamins and nutrients. Vitamins A and C are really reduced in dehydration, now some of Dailey products require soaking in warm water to fluffing up. Now by doing that, the B vitamins mainly, along with thiamine and flavoids leach out into water and are loss. Overall you will retain about 14- 45 percent of original values.
After you dehydrate foods, you need to condition them before you package them for final storage. This means cooling them, putting them in a nonporous container for 10 to 14 days and then stirring or shaking them at least once a day. If condensation occurs, the food isn't fully dehydrated and mold can set in very quickly, so you need to catch condensation quickly and need to return it to the oven or dehydrator for further drying. If the food may have been contaminated, it needs to be pasteurized by putting it in an oven at 160 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes or in a 0-degree F freezer in a plastic bag for at least 48 hours. Food must be tossed out immediately at first sign of mold or contamination.I
Herbs, nuts, fruit and veggies, pasta all require different temperatures to dehydrate. Which requires several different hydrators, and heat settings.
So, bottom line, it's not the food per se, but most likely the process. Rotating batches.
For example, you make a large batch, you still have old batch, you process them to be shipped by combining them...what if the old batch went off?? Now mixed into new batch.
You see, there is a ton of variables here.
Bottom line for me and my birds they were lacking proper vitamins, nutrients and minerals from the food, and higher concentration of sugar from the hydration process.

 
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Nikomania

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This explains quite well the dehydration process and how it adversely affects the food's nutritional value.
Up to 97% of nutrients are retained through the freeze drying process. The one vitamin that will deteriorate is the delicate Vitamin C.
 

Hawk12237

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This explains quite well the dehydration process and how it adversely affects the food's nutritional value.
Up to 97% of nutrients are retained through the freeze drying process. The one vitamin that will deteriorate is the delicate Vitamin C.

Exactly!! For me now it's fresh ( preferably) or freeze drying.
 

Ribbit21

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For those that had issues, were your birds eating 100% dehydrated foods? I would think that feeding a pelleted diet along with dried foods and fresh foods would negate any of the vitamin issues. I never feed dried food dry, I always soak in water and feed the soaked foods with the water. I do the same thing with freeze dried. Dehydrated bird foods are nothing new, so is the thought that mold is the actual issue?
 

Hawk12237

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For those that had issues, were your birds eating 100% dehydrated foods? I would think that feeding a pelleted diet along with dried foods and fresh foods would negate any of the vitamin issues. I never feed dried food dry, I always soak in water and feed the soaked foods with the water. I do the same thing with freeze dried. Dehydrated bird foods are nothing new, so is the thought that mold is the actual issue?
I ordered tons from daileys, much of it you had to add water to the mix.
I was basically naive about all the dehydration stuff. ( somebody please slap me!!!)
Yes they got there zupreem during day. But mornings and evenings they got daileys.
Being that my Zon suffered an allergic reaction, does point to possibility of mold contamination in that food. If indeed condensation set in in that food, so will bacteria.
Again, it's the process involved here, not the food per se. The food is believed to have become contaminated.
But back to fresh for my birds!!!

 

taxidermynerd

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For those that had issues, were your birds eating 100% dehydrated foods? I would think that feeding a pelleted diet along with dried foods and fresh foods would negate any of the vitamin issues. I never feed dried food dry, I always soak in water and feed the soaked foods with the water. I do the same thing with freeze dried. Dehydrated bird foods are nothing new, so is the thought that mold is the actual issue?
My bird ate pellets and my own seed mix, in addition to the savory great grains and sproutrageous baby sprouts. For just under 2 months. And apparently, that was long enough to cause long-term problems in Chirp, because his vet says he will never be 100% again.
 

Rain Bow

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My bird ate pellets and my own seed mix, in addition to the savory great grains and sproutrageous baby sprouts. For just under 2 months. And apparently, that was long enough to cause long-term problems in Chirp, because his vet says he will never be 100% again.
Buddy was eating the dehydrated sprouts too! This was mainly what he ate actually.

I'm so sorry about Chirp! Does the vet know what's causing Chirps issues longterm? I mean that re: to her food. Salt, mold ect.?
 
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