NOVA Came home!! unwell....

[Bokkapooh]

Looks like she is now eating right. Not a brat, just needed good handling.

 

[RainbowBunny]

Looks like she is now eating right. Not a brat, just needed good handling.

Definitely a Brat -.- she knows she's gonna get babyd lol
Omg I'm not prepared for a Grey >_< I'm happy with what I've got goin on. She's definitely eating healthy btw she's always throws a fit after a feeding but she eats.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Shes a baby. She deserves babying. Not a brat. Not yet anyway.

 

[RainbowBunny]

Lol that's how I feel!! But not eating was a behavioral issue :"/ there is no medical reason. Lol she'll grow up to be a spoiled punk and I don't mind

 

[heirofslytherin123]

what a darling face!

 

[sodakat]

So she is eating in the same manner as when you were worried, but now you are not worried because Bob assured you it is normal behavior? It sounded like she was not eating much at all a few days ago. Would you mind describing what has changed in order to make this thread helpful in the future when it comes up on search engines?

 

[Bokkapooh]

Lol that's how I feel!! But not eating was a behavioral issue :"/ there is no medical reason. Lol she'll grow up to be a spoiled punk and I don't mind

Not behavioral, right? Didnt you say Bob showed you how to handfeed better?,

 

[RainbowBunny]

They told me to be more stern with her.. basically hold her beak still, make her stretch her neck and make sure the food goes straight down her throat. Where as before I was just really tender with her, I wouldn't hold her still, I would never hold her beak, its really hard to describe. I was pretty horrified with what was going on but the fact is she needs to eat guys there is nothing wrong with her and she has another vet appointment on Thursday just to make sure, but I have literally tried everything and pretty much I let her walk out of a schedule decide for herself what and when she would eat, EVERYTHING I tried worked once and not again and she was starting to drop weight. No medical explination at all. And now that I'm being more stern she's actually getting food in her system. Dont get me wrong she still refuses to eat on her own and still won't bob but they said if I keep it up she'd be bobbing by the weekend so we'll see. And I don't know about "better" way of hand feeding its different but if I had my pick it would be gentler. But quite frankly I've asked for suggestions and all anyone has to offer is phone numbers to someone else and I'm still left without answers, this is an answer and I'm gonna hang on to it until I find a flaw. Till then shes happy, healthy and eating ^_^

 

[CheekyBeaks]

I agree with bokkapoohs statement, she isnt a brat at all, she just needs to be handled correctly nearly all behavioural issues stem from us the owners. I don't mean to sound negative or judgmental but it sounds like you really didn't know how to handfed correctly to begin with, all babies being handfed need gentle support when hand feeding, it should never be harsh or rough but with the little birds I raise I always have my palm resting lightly on their backs, my thumb and index finger gently placed either side of the head and sometimes my pinky finger gently on their keel bone, as they start to feed they will naturally sit up and stretch their neck up. If the neck isn't stretching up to feed you risk aspiration when feeding. I hold lightly enough that if they need stop feeding they can. Obviously a larger bird will need a different method of support. Even a mother bird will sort of hold onto the babies beak gently when regurgitating food to their babies, and they make their babies hold their heads back a bit and stretch their necks up so the food goes straight down easily.
i would say the reason she was loosing weight is because she wasn't be nourished properly from poor feeding methods and has become weak due to the lack of food and doesn't have the energy to pump.
As for her learning to eat on her own I generally keep pellets available at all times in sight and easy to reach, then offer fresh foods twice per day usually morning and afternoon.

On a side note if you do decide to get a grey sometime in the future I hope you have learned a huge lesson by this, please find a reputable breeder and buy a fully weaned well socialised baby, or perhaps offer a home to a rescue bird. I know you have the best of intentions but hand raising should always be left to the breeder and someone who is experienced.

 

[RainbowBunny]

I'm honestly done with this forum. You guys are literally minimule help. I told everyone on here what she was doing all her symptoms and everything going on and still no one had any suggestions on what to do, but you all jump right in there to tell me I'm wrong on what you know NOTHING about how I'm doing. Your more than welcome to fly on down to san Antonio and watch me feed her, in fact ill pick you up at the air port and give you a room to crash. But until we have something constructive to do about her eating habits I'm done. And just fyi I'm sure if she was too tired to pump she wouldn't spend HOURS playing flapping and calling, my vet is OBVIOUSLY wrong when she told me Nova's tests came back clean and the owner of a reputible rescue has no clue what hes talking about when he watches me feed and tells me im doing all the right things, that I should be more stern but I don't have to. But thanks for the constructive criticism and enjoy the rest of the forum.

 

[looniebirds]

I don't have any advice to give, as hand feeding is beyond me, I have never done it and don't even know how. But I am happy that the little bird seems to be growing, getting better and stronger.

 

[Mythreeiggys]

I'm honestly done with this forum. You guys are literally minimule help. I told everyone on here what she was doing all her symptoms and everything going on and still no one had any suggestions on what to do, but you all jump right in there to tell me I'm wrong on what you know NOTHING about how I'm doing. Your more than welcome to fly on down to san Antonio and watch me feed her, in fact ill pick you up at the air port and give you a room to crash. But until we have something constructive to do about her eating habits I'm done. And just fyi I'm sure if she was too tired to pump she wouldn't spend HOURS playing flapping and calling, my vet is OBVIOUSLY wrong when she told me Nova's tests came back clean and the owner of a reputible rescue has no clue what hes talking about when he watches me feed and tells me im doing all the right things, that I should be more stern but I don't have to. But thanks for the constructive criticism and enjoy the rest of the forum.

No one had any suggestions?! I'm pretty sure after 31 pages, surely we answered what "Bob" did but you chose not to listen.

 

[itzmered]

I think you have received some great advice, sometimes we need to step back and take a deep breath and then go back and reread everything. No need to get so upset

 

[melissasparrots]

I was going to respond to this yesterday, but had to run off to my evening class and didn't have time to follow through with a long post. Since I"m not sure if your really done with this forum, I'll keep it very short because I'm not sure if you'll see it. Granted, I raise amazons, not macaws, so take it with a grain of salt. Many large parrot species go though a difficult to feed phase. They hit their peak weight and start dropping weight sooner than most inexperienced people think they should. Before they are even fully feathered and before they are really doing much more than nibbling real food on their own if that. My yellow nape babies are only about 5 weeks old, not anywhere close to fully feathered, but they are approaching their peak weight. Growth rates have slowed WAY down, metabolism has slowed WAY down. They only briefely pump for food. My younger one likes to regurgitate it and sometimes the older one does too. They will both sometimes "cough" a little and even regurgitate some of their previous meal on a nearly empty crop while I'm getting ready for their next feeding. So its not like they are overly stuffed or that they are coughing because I put food in their mouth wrong. Had I not kept really good notes for the last several years, I would think they had slow crop or were sick for sure. In fact, I was in a state of panic with the first baby amazon I raised. Little birds go through the same phases, but faster and sometimes its less noticeable and their faster metabolism means a skipped meal spells hunger the next time food is offered. Not always the case with big birds.

Yes, with my baby napes, I do at this point, streatch out their neck and hold their head back when I feed them. However, I also feed them smaller amounts per "mouthful" so while they let it pool in their mouth, they also are fully able to swallow most of it. And if they want to spit out half of the two cc's they get per squirt of the syringe, that is fine too. I also don't insist on trying to get a decent meal into them. I know this is a weight loss phase, and doing too much to stop the weight loss just results in aggrivation for me, becomes an aspiration risk and more than anything its likely to slow down the baby's progress toward weaning if I prevent them from loosing the weight their instinct tells them they need to lose. Once the baby finally fledges which will likely be in a few weeks, shortly after the baby will often become suddenly ravenous again on and off. So while right now I can barely get a feeding response, some lose weight at an alarming rate and they don't really eat anything on their own, a few days or a week or so after first flight, they will start begging for food again. While I can barely get 20-30cc into my 500gram baby every 8 hours right now, after he flys, he will have times where he will down 60cc easy. He might do that a few feedings in a row and then act disintrested for another few feedings. Then back to crying piteously and being revenously hungry. This is NORMAL. It also requires extreme care in feeding because honestly I think if they were in the nest at this point, mom and down would be giving them multiple small mouthfulls of food rather than trying to stuff them with large feedings.
Also in case your wondering down the road, don't expect a whole lot of eating on her own until a few weeks or maybe longer after the first flight. I've heard some macaws will start eating on their own although not enough to be weaned earlier than some species. For my napes, I know they will be flying for a few weeks before they even think about ingesting any measureable amount of grown up food. They start eating on their own a week or so after I start wondering if I went wrong somewhere and screwed them up.
My previous notes from many years past are my bible. Every time I think I messed up, I go to my previous observations and generally find a note saying a sibling from a previous year did the same thing, but turned out okay.
There, I said I'd keep it short, but apparently not. I try to do a semi-weekly update of my babies under the breeder board section of this forum. They are due for an update sometime this weekend. You might want to check in with that periodically to see how I handle various issues with my own little brats. My school year has started and I don't have much time to spend on the boards right now. Especially since I'm feeding two of my own.

 

[TextsFromParrots]

This was certainly an informative thread to read. Kudos to those that had so many suggestions and offering other perspectives to help. Hopefully if someone stumbles across this thread they can use your advice. You guys rock!

 

[CheekyBeaks]

I certainly didn't have any intention to upset you, I truley care for Novas welfare and I know you love and are doing your very best for her, I hope you stay here at AA.

As a breeder I take what I do very seriously it's not just about fun it is an enourmous amount of hard work and things can change very quickly with any baby and it takes a trained eye to see when something is not right that the inexperienced may easily miss.

I will admit that I have made the mistake of buying a clutch of babies from a breeder that I thought they was a good breeder, it turned out they were all sick and had been for a while but weren't showing it, I had never had a sick baby that I had bred myself and despite knowing how to feed, house etc... I was totally unprepared for sick babies, I got those babies to the vet the very morning after their crops didnt empty out after the previous nights feed. I had a native species of parrot that are very sensitive and while my and my vets efforts kept them going for longer than they probably would have lived over the next week or so of endless 2 hourly feeds of basically water, probiotics, electrolytes, first aid food and meds (any solid foods and thier crops would shut down completely) they slowly one by one passed away it was truly devistating. I was experinced enough before I took these babies on having handraised dozens of babies at the time. I will NEVER take a baby from another breeder again that is unweaned regardless of circimstance, my vet also reports people who sell babies unweaned if they have full knowledge of it.I will admit that after my experince I do get angry about inexperinced people taking in unweaned babies I will not be sorry for that.

This is the very reason I am a little hard on people who take on unweaned babies but I was sincerely trying to help with the best of my knowledge and never implied that your vet was wrong there was so much going on with Nova noted in your posts that it sent alarm bells ringing with many of us and some of your post had been confusing we could only help based on the info you gave us.

I have learned an enourmous amount from that experince as well as raising my own babies and continue learning daily. I also have learned alot of the behavioural and emotional side of raising birds, they are complex creatures and I think people often humanise their babies too much to the point they don't realise they are birds. Socialisation is crutial in a birds development it's not just socialisation to live with other birds it effects their whole attitude and behaviour interacting with people too. Not socialising creates so many behvioural and psycological issues that may not appear for years.

My comments were not only aimed towards helping Novas situation but to others who are reading too. I hope this thread helps even just a few people out there reading this who have considered buying an unweaned bird of any age, that taking unweaned babies is not the way a new pet should be brought into your life, even if you get a healthy baby at the end of the day it is rarely the right or fair thing to do for any bird, please leave it to dedicated breeders out there.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

They told me to be more stern with her.. basically hold her beak still, make her stretch her neck and make sure the food goes straight down her throat. Where as before I was just really tender with her, I wouldn't hold her still, I would never hold her beak, its really hard to describe. I was pretty horrified with what was going on but the fact is she needs to eat guys there is nothing wrong with her and she has another vet appointment on Thursday just to make sure, but I have literally tried everything and pretty much I let her walk out of a schedule decide for herself what and when she would eat, EVERYTHING I tried worked once and not again and she was starting to drop weight. No medical explination at all. And now that I'm being more stern she's actually getting food in her system. Dont get me wrong she still refuses to eat on her own and still won't bob but they said if I keep it up she'd be bobbing by the weekend so we'll see. And I don't know about "better" way of hand feeding its different but if I had my pick it would be gentler. But quite frankly I've asked for suggestions and all anyone has to offer is phone numbers to someone else and I'm still left without answers, this is an answer and I'm gonna hang on to it until I find a flaw. Till then shes happy, healthy and eating ^_^

LOL, how we interpret words or situations can be so different. •I fed a number of babies at the bird shop I helped with. •I was very use to holding the beak and slightly lifting. •The birds that were harder for me were the darn quakers. •They are cute as a button but when young they quake! •All that bouncing around was not my cup of tea. •It sure is a switch going from large macaws to the smaller conure size bird. •There is a bit of a difference. •Reading what you have written is that you got the formula good, the socializing good. •Now it is time to set a few boundaries. •You are not being mean but are setting boundaries and goals. •I believe babies need a lot to start out life and get what they need but that can also mean hands off some of the time. •I would take in B&G and military macaws that were "bad biters". •They were just brats that needed to learn a few rules and the biting diminished while good behavior and interaction with the birds became pleasant. •You have the kindness down very good and are helping Nova more secure. •You can gradually introduce rules and guide her to an acceptable social behavior. •In the wild parents and siblings help them develop behaviors. •I am always careful with biting. •I don't have feathers so my birds need to learn biting me is not acceptable. •Have a substitute for them. •The vasa loves biting my shirt, shaking it, lifting it up and she has NEVER bitten me. •A bird in a bad mood (yep they have their moments) I just leave them in their cage with their toys. •With time they learn their cage is a safe place and start to put themselves in their cage when they want away. •Yay...this is a good thing. •My dogs have done the same thing by putting themselves in their crates. •When the grandkids were young they learned they were not allowed to go by a dog in their crate as that was their space.

So glad Bob could offer you some suggestions. •It is hard for me to give full advice over the net as seeing what has occured is as important as what one says. •I have gone to a few homes. •People would come to the shop with birds. •In all these situations person and bird behavior could be seen. •The bird that bit at her owner or would not come out of her cage...well the recommendation was to let the bird make the decision. •She doesn't want to come out then close the door. •The owner and I stayed in visual field of the bird and we talked. •After a few minutes she tried again. •This was new behavior on the owners part and the bird didn't know what to make of this. •ONce again the bird chose NOT to step up so left in cage and we went and talked again. •The next time the bird came right to the door, stepped right up and wanted to be with us while we talked. •The bird was kept safe and could not come out being a dive bomber. •The bird was allowed to make a choice which I feel is a good way to develop trust. •Both parties learned to read each other. •This whold scenario might be hard to say over the net but in person it was worth a thousand words.

You are now working with Nova at the baby stage. •She then goes to "toddler" or fledging stage then moving on to different development. •Just as your bird changes you need to change also. •Certain behaviors are kept (your love and kindness) but new things may be introduced such as helping a bird learn beak pressure. •It is heart warming to an owner when one is feeling low and their bird doesn't seem as interested in them when a stranger comes by and your bird comes running to you for comfort.

Will miss hearing about Nova continueing to grow. •I do make it to San Antonio on occasion and would love just popping in to say hi.

 

[waterfaller1]

I'm honestly done with this forum. You guys are literally minimule help..

Minimal help? Didn't I hook you up with a very knowledgeable person to speak to on the phone, and didn't you have many conversations? Didn't she in turn even lead you to someone in your area that could help? I am really sorry you feel this way.

 

[Love My Zons]

Minimal help? Didn't I hook you up with a very knowledgeable person to speak to on the phone, and didn't you have many conversations? Didn't she in turn even lead you to someone in your area that could help? I am really sorry you feel this way.

OMG this is like almost 2 months old so why drag it up?

 

[waterfaller1]

A weak moment I guess...sorry.