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I need help with Buttercup...

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quakingcanopy

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Okay, so the history here isI got Buttercup and Wesley (Sun Conures, bonded pair, 4 years old) from a lady who was providing less then ideal care. Cockatiel seed. No pellets, no minerals, treats, toys, vitamins, cuttle, etc. Tiny cage, no exercise.

Now, the pair have bred and have begun laying a nest. But, I've taken the nesting box away and put the eggs in a brooder (I've raised chickens from egg before so luckily I am all set up). I need to get Buttercup to stop laying because her behaviors are really starting to scare me!!

What she is doing:
She can barely climb the sides of the cage. She falls often and sometimes from about a foot up. When she is on the bottom of the cage she sways back and forth. If she is out of her box it's because she knows I am nearby and is either going to throw a fit, or try to get me to give her something through the bars. She is not eating much; Wesley fights her out of the bowl so I do have 2 set up across the cage from each other. She just seems weak, unbalanced. Add that to not eating much...

What I'm doing:
My Avet is out of town until Monday, but is seeing her first thing. In the meantime she has told me to remove the box (done) and any eggs she lays in the cage if she does. She said to get her to eat - even if it's "junk." She will take 10 or so sunflower seeds from me and will entertain a nutri-berry or two, occasionally she will eat apple pieces. Keep in mind I have to give Wesley 3x as much as I give her just to keep him away from what she has. I also have vitamins and calcium in the water, a cuttle bone perch (they don't use), flavored oyster shell in a dish if they choose to eat it (they don't), and a pellet and seed mix in their bowls (which they throw the pellets out of). Plus, I am giving them fruits and veggies every day which I sprinkle ground pellets onto. I also got some egg protein powder mix but have not tried to offer it yet.

Is there anything else I can do? What if I separated them? I don't have a divideable cage but watch me do figure out how to do it or I can get another cage if need be. Would this be too much for them with me pulling their eggs, the fact that I've only owned them a week, and that they are not tame at all...seems like so much stress...but I want to do whatever it takes to help her...

Thanks for any help and advice...Scarlett is so healthy and loving and playful...and she eats everything I give her (she gets everything they do). I'm so confused and sad :sad3:
 

Magic

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im bumping this hopefully some one will be along shortly to help you
 

JLcribber

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I agree with everything she said except for taking any eggs away. That would just encourage her to replace them.

If she's sick (which she is) then the mate is putting her under un-needed stress by not letting her eat. Separating them at least until you can get her to the vet will not hurt anything and allow her to eat stress free and save her energy.

It will also let you keep her nice and warm and quiet, again at least until you can get her to the vet which is the most important thing right now.

It sounds like she could be egg bound. If so time is of the essence. Monday is a long time (too long if that's the situation).
 

ncGreyBirdLady

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You have only had them for a week?But You have taken "Eggs"and put them in a Brooder!How many Eggs? The very first thing You need to do is to get Her to Your Vet,which You said You will do Monday(Good for You)You already know that Her diet needs immediate Help:) I do not want to say that Your Vet is Wrong-But I would NOT take eggs away from her-Taking the eggs away will only encourage Her to Lay More eggs-further weakening Her already weak system!Keep Us Posted and Good luck with Her:hug8:
 

quakingcanopy

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Thank you. I'm adding that she appears to have an egg in her abdomen. It was not obvious just a few hours ago so I do not think there is cause for alarm yet. I will let her sleep and check if she has laid in the AM. If not, I will feel her abdomen (lightly, of course, I have been shown how to do this without harming her by pressing the egg into her organs by my vet). If there is a problem with her laying I will update on that...

Also, I was able to watch her climb the cage -something she has not allowed me to do before...and she clearly has a splayed toe on one foot. It does not grip the bars at all. I don't think this is helping matters!

So worried about my new momma...
 

quakingcanopy

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Oh, "eggs" is two. She laid Monday and Wednesday... (I think, I wrote it down, but I'm so tired - long non-birdy day, plus the birdy stuff!)
 

JLcribber

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If this is her third egg and she's having trouble passing it, she may already be depleted given what you've said about the bad diet. She may need a calcium injection to get that third egg out.

What condition were the previous two eggs in? Were they well formed and hard shelled?
 

quakingcanopy

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Okay...the egg thing was a..."you can try it, but she may lay more..." but she also really emphasized getting the nest away. I left a message on this, but maybe you guys can help. Should I put the nest back and put artificial eggs in? I have some...somewhere...

How would I know if she is egg bound? Also asked Doc if she knows someone else who can see her perhaps over the weekend. Waiting to hear back...

And yes, well formed, good size, hard shell on the other 2.
 

pinkparrot

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I hope your baby is going to be ok! I'm just wondering why your taking the eggs? Its going to be a job to hand feed chicks from day one!
 

quakingcanopy

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Well, I can't imagine making her care for them! I've hand fed before, so it won't be the end of the world. But if need be I can try replacing them as it has only been about an hour and a half. Bare with me everyone, this is my first pair and I got them "this way" and just want to do what's best! Whatever that is...I'm listening ;)
 

pinkparrot

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Sorry If I sounded rude I didn't mean to be. It makes sense to me now that you took them away becuse she was sick :headsmack:
 

quakingcanopy

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If it would be better for her for me to put them back I can. But it seems like I need to solve her health first, ya know? The eggs are warm and safe. Now for momma! Thanks for the posts :)
 

Sharpie

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Eek! She's showing some pretty classic signs of being hypocalcemic +/- egg bound. I helped with a umbrella cockatoo that was like this a couple of weeks ago with a similar cruddy diet. She needed (and was given) fluids immediately for dehydration. We also had to tube feed her because she wasn't eating enough and mixed a calcium supplement into her feedings once we ran the bloodwork. We kept her warm and got her more stable (the egg was not blocking her cloaca) and then had to go to surgery the next day since she wasn't passing the egg on her own.

Is your vet an avian vet? Or a vet with a strong interest in birds? Parrots will keep laying eggs until they have the predetermined number they're programmed for. So if you keep taking them away, she will likely try to lay more. If you can put two fakes in the cage to replace the two you removed, that would be ideal. Keep her warm and keep her eating. She needs some serious nutrition and help right now if she is as weak as she sounds, if you need to remove the male to make this happen, do it. If she becomes unable to poop normally at any point, it is a life-threatening emergency.

I hope she survives until Monday.... :(
 

JLcribber

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You said she laid the other eggs one every other day. This one should follow suit. If she doesn't lay it within about 24 hours of when it "should" have been layed I personally would be very concerned.

In that case she "will" need a booster calcium injection to allow her to pass the egg. A simple supplement is not strong enough or quick enough to do the job.

At this point she needs to be kept calm, quiet warm and "stress free". Existing eggs or not and no bullying from the mate.
 

evsrin

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I agree with the other advice given here, and I also think you should ditch the eggs she laid and not worry about getting chicks yet. Those chicks could be deformed given the care she had prior to you(or lack of:(), it's not a chance worth taking in my opinion. I know you're excited about having chicks, but you need to focus on the pair until they are READY and healthy, and right now they aren't. I would toss the eggs and replace with fakes and do the same even if she lays more. It's up to you to do right by them and pushing things through this early is not the right thing to do right now. It's obvious they have not been taken well care of in the past, and this poor momma sounds like she is just tired and under alot of stress. It's hard for them to stop once in breeding mode though, so I would give her some fake eggs and let her sit on them untill her heart is content;) Also, getting her to the vet asap sounds needed in this case, you don't want to lose her to egg binding... so giving up the eggs this time to ensure her health and well being seems so much more responsible then trying to hatch these eggs nomatter what the cost. All your energy needs to be going towards the pair not new chicks right now.

Good luck and I hope she is okay! Egg binding is very scary and real... you don't have time to waste:hug8:
 

waterfaller1

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Sending positive & healing energy for Buttercup. :hug8:
 

suncoast

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DO NOT wait until Monday. Get her in today! This is an emergency.

Ginger
 

Anne & Gang

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get her into the vet asap..trust me on this one...also get some false eggs...also that seed thing..seeds ARE NOT JUNK...especially for the smaller species....if you give seeds and or pellets alone that is not good....you must supplement ....you can buy false eggs birdsupplynh.com or look in a craft store...ditching her eggs is NOT recommended..keep them on the grate on the bottom of her cage with a towel underneath them.....take her in the shower room...hold her..turn the shower on boiling hot and run for 10 minutes....do not hold her in the shower..just let her have the humidity..this sometimes loosens the egg...good luck and GET HER TO THE VET
 
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