Howard Voren

[itzmered]

One of the big problems I see is that they use the name of Humane Society in their title. Most people equate the Humane Society to their local Humane Society which is a completely different entity. They donate to them thinking they are helping out all of the shelters around the country when in fact they are not even associated with any of them. It is kind of misleading and face it a mass majority of people do not do the research before they donate to a cause.

They are involved in many of the same things that PETA is involved in and that is enough evidence for me to know that I would never donate to them.

 

[melissasparrots]

One of the big problems I see is that they use the name of Humane Society in their title.

Agreed. In my younger years I would have been inclined to donate money to the Humane Society if I'd had money to give. I equated them to a larger version of an animal shelter. Saving poor little puppies off the street from the evil humans. The name itself is deceptive. I have to ask, why would they name themselves something like that if they weren't specifically hoping to deceive the ignorant into donating money.

 

[LaSelva]

They were formed in 1954 as the National Humane Society. "Humane society" being a generic title. It seems that their goals, from the onset, were broader in scope. Still to help animals but in a different way. In terms of the institutionalized, unseen, suffering that is not a part of the public's daily consciousness.

Their name is used in the typical straw-man argument to mislead the public against them.

What they do is easily made clear via "quick Google search."

 

[pajarita]

Um...HSUS does not run any animal shelters at all, isn't that enough for you? All the money you give to them goes directly into lobbying to do things like force the government to put parrots on endangered lists. They were directly responsible for putting the Blue Throated Macaw on the US Endangered List this last time around. This means that anyone who wants to buy a BTM that is not in their home state must first get a permit to do so and a permit will not be given to anyone but a serious and seasoned breeder. Bottom line, all the money you give to the HSUS goes to nothing but lobbying work and paying their staff. And if you want the ties to PETA, all you have to do is look at their CEO Wayne Pacelle

Breaking: HSUS Loses Charity Rating
Center for Consumer Freedom – 9 Things You Didn’t Know About HSUS
HumaneWatch | HSUS and Co-Defendants Pay $15.75 Million in Racketeering Lawsuit
Humane Society of the United States – Activist Facts

No, it's not! Why would it be? I donate to local (and one not local) shelters but I also donate to the HSUS because I want the cruelty laws to actually protect animals. Shelter take care of the symptom but the change in laws will take care of the disease. And, by the way, none of the links provides proof of any relationship to PETA and every site you posted is pro industry (sources need to be independent to be reliable).

 

[pajarita]

One of the big problems I see is that they use the name of Humane Society in their title. Most people equate the Humane Society to their local Humane Society which is a completely different entity. They donate to them thinking they are helping out all of the shelters around the country when in fact they are not even associated with any of them. It is kind of misleading and face it a mass majority of people do not do the research before they donate to a cause.

They are involved in many of the same things that PETA is involved in and that is enough evidence for me to know that I would never donate to them.

It's your prerogative not to donate, of course. I used to donate to PETA until I found out what they were about, I no longer do because I don't agree with their goals as I think that pets have an important place in our lives. But I do want the cruelty laws to be efficient (which they are not right now) and actually protect animals so I donate to HSUS - and I don't see anything wrong with the name, either. I don't know about people misunderstanding what they do but, if we are going to go by the name itself, it's actually quite appropriate: Humane: marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals. Yep, that's exactly what their goal is: animals treated with compassion, sympathy and consideration.

 

[jmfleish]

No, it's not! Why would it be? I donate to local (and one not local) shelters but I also donate to the HSUS because I want the cruelty laws to actually protect animals. Shelter take care of the symptom but the change in laws will take care of the disease. And, by the way, none of the links provides proof of any relationship to PETA and every site you posted is pro industry (sources need to be independent to be reliable).

So, are you ok with the fact that they forced the federal government's hand in listing several parrot species on the Endangered Species List so that pet owners can no longer purchase these species unless they are being sold within the borders of our state? Is that the kind of legislation you are looking for? How about the legislation that they were pushing that would make traveling across any border with any non-indigenous species a criminal offense, even for something like purchasing a bird from a rescue or going to see a vet? Those are the kinds of legislation that HSUS is backing and pushing and that's where your donation is going to when you give to HSUS.

Do you know who Ingrid Newkirk is? She's the co-founder and president of PETA. Her and Wayne Pacelle who is the CEO of HSUS are good friends and have similar goals. Did you even read any of the URLS provided to you? There is some very scary stuff out there and there is very little difference between the two organizations. Let me give you some quotes that are indistinguishable between the two organizations:

In fact, I don't want to see another cat or dog born.

In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.

Anybody who eats meat is guilty of holding the same mindset that allowed the Holocaust to happen.

I will be the last person to condemn ALM (the Animal Liberation Front - a known domestic terrorist group).

[Eating meat] is not your personal decision, any more than, you know, whether somebody beats their child is their personal decision.

My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.

My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.

Did we euthanize some animals who could have been adopted? Maybe.

A perfect example of effective rebellion is an Animal Liberation Front raid on a laboratory...Sure, the activists broke the law, but all of their activities focused directly on saving animals and exposing cruelty.

I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories, and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow.

Those are just a few sayings from PETA and HSUS. One in the same. You give your money to one, you give it to the other. This is what is going to happen to animal ownership if you aren't careful. Choose your battles wisely.

 

[Hankmacaw]

It seems as if there are two camps - those who have decided and won't accept evidence to the contrary and those who accept evidence but continue to search for the truth (whatever that is.)

The most dangerous 10 words in the English language; "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you".

"We would often be sorry if our wishes were gratified" is from Aesop

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

 

[pajarita]

So, are you ok with the fact that they forced the federal government's hand in listing several parrot species on the Endangered Species List so that pet owners can no longer purchase these species unless they are being sold within the borders of our state? Is that the kind of legislation you are looking for? How about the legislation that they were pushing that would make traveling across any border with any non-indigenous species a criminal offense, even for something like purchasing a bird from a rescue or going to see a vet? Those are the kinds of legislation that HSUS is backing and pushing and that's where your donation is going to when you give to HSUS.

Do you know who Ingrid Newkirk is? She's the co-founder and president of PETA. Her and Wayne Pacelle who is the CEO of HSUS are good friends and have similar goals. Did you even read any of the URLS provided to you? There is some very scary stuff out there and there is very little difference between the two organizations. Let me give you some quotes that are indistinguishable between the two organizations:

In fact, I don't want to see another cat or dog born.

In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.

Anybody who eats meat is guilty of holding the same mindset that allowed the Holocaust to happen.

I will be the last person to condemn ALM (the Animal Liberation Front - a known domestic terrorist group).

[Eating meat] is not your personal decision, any more than, you know, whether somebody beats their child is their personal decision.

My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.

My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture.

Did we euthanize some animals who could have been adopted? Maybe.

A perfect example of effective rebellion is an Animal Liberation Front raid on a laboratory...Sure, the activists broke the law, but all of their activities focused directly on saving animals and exposing cruelty.

I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories, and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow.

Those are just a few sayings from PETA and HSUS. One in the same. You give your money to one, you give it to the other. This is what is going to happen to animal ownership if you aren't careful. Choose your battles wisely.

I am OK with EVERYTHING that makes animal ownership obsolete and the right to keep them harder, my dear. Not because I don't want people to keep animals but because I want only the truly dedicated and knowledgeable animal lovers to have them and not every Tom, Dick and Harry that has the money to buy them without the knowledge/ infrastructure/systems to keep them right or for their own self gratification. I love animals and I don't want any of them to suffer unnecessarily or because it affects somebody's pocket, lifestyle or whatever.

And I don't care what disreputable sites or even what individuals say. I don't go by what 'other people' think, do or say, I think for myself and do what I think it's right. I do research, look at all the options and choose the one that most closely resembles my personal choice. And, right now, HSUS fills that requirement as they are fighting for better laws for the protection of animals. Are they ideal? No, most likely they are not. But they strive to offer animals a better protection that what they have now and that's good enough for me. If, at any point in time in the future, there is a better organization, I will switch my allegiance to them. Which animal organization do you donate to?

 

[jmfleish]

I am OK with EVERYTHING that makes animal ownership obsolete and the right to keep them harder, my dear. Not because I don't want people to keep animals but because I want only the truly dedicated and knowledgeable animal lovers to have them and not every Tom, Dick and Harry that has the money to buy them without the knowledge/ infrastructure/systems to keep them right or for their own self gratification. I love animals and I don't want any of them to suffer unnecessarily or because it affects somebody's pocket, lifestyle or whatever.

And I don't care what disreputable sites or even what individuals say. I don't go by what 'other people' think, do or say, I think for myself and do what I think it's right. I do research, look at all the options and choose the one that most closely resembles my personal choice. And, right now, HSUS fills that requirement as they are fighting for better laws for the protection of animals. Are they ideal? No, most likely they are not. But they strive to offer animals a better protection that what they have now and that's good enough for me. If, at any point in time in the future, there is a better organization, I will switch my allegiance to them. Which animal organization do you donate to?

But do you realize that these organizations want to make ownership of all animals by anyone obsolete? That is their goal and it's not just pets that they think we shouldn't have but they don't think we should use them for food in any way, shape, or form either. Do you think that is right? Do you not think that should be a personal choice or do you believe that every human on the earth should be a card carrying member of the vegan clan with no choice in the matter?

 

[Sadieladie1994]

I don't donate to either that you mention. My donations go to the route...preserve animals in the wild by preserving the land. Help those living with these beautiful animals have an alternate method of income. Selling kids, women and wild animals imposes a decline in world society/

 

[Monica]

If pajarita is who I think she is, then I think I would know the answer.... and it would be better to understand her, if you knew where and how she grew up. What she has been able to experience that most parrot owners don't get to experience. And she also keeps parrots quite differently than most owners.

And I've been wondering how one little senegal has been doing in her care.


Although her views are quite different as compared to other owners/keepers, I think people could learn quite a lot from her.



At the moment, I don't donate money to anything, but I have donated *time* to a local rescue. Unfortunately, with a change in jobs, I haven't been able to visit the local rescue like I used to. I've been waiting months now to have my days off changed so I could go help out again, and I'm not sure if, nor when, my days off may be changed. If I had the income/money, I would be more than happy to donate to various rescues and organizations to help animals! Both the wildlife organizations trying to preserve species and their habitats, as well as animal rescues and sanctuaries.


It's been interesting to see how this thread as evolved from a bird mill situation to organizations that we may or may not agree with.

 

[jmfleish]

If pajarita is who I think she is, then I think I would know the answer.... and it would be better to understand her, if you knew where and how she grew up. What she has been able to experience that most parrot owners don't get to experience. And she also keeps parrots quite differently than most owners.

And I've been wondering how one little senegal has been doing in her care.


Although her views are quite different as compared to other owners/keepers, I think people could learn quite a lot from her.



At the moment, I don't donate money to anything, but I have donated *time* to a local rescue. Unfortunately, with a change in jobs, I haven't been able to visit the local rescue like I used to. I've been waiting months now to have my days off changed so I could go help out again, and I'm not sure if, nor when, my days off may be changed. If I had the income/money, I would be more than happy to donate to various rescues and organizations to help animals! Both the wildlife organizations trying to preserve species and their habitats, as well as animal rescues and sanctuaries.


It's been interesting to see how this thread as evolved from a bird mill situation to organizations that we may or may not agree with.

Well, that's great Monica but it would be nice to know a little bit more about her and her views. Personally, I'd prefer that people don't tell me how to live my life or keep my birds, but of course, that's just me...you know how that goes...I kind of like freedom and all of that and I've done more than my fair share of charity work with the birds that have come into my home and the money and donations that go out.

 

[melissasparrots]

I don't donate money either. I will donate my time. I've fostered dogs and cats before. I've donated food to various animal shelters and rehab facilities. I've volunteered to do education programs for our native wild life. With pretty rare exception, I don't normally donate money because while I am for animal welfare, I'm not always in line with their political views or any influence they might have over local lawmakers.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Donating pet food to a food bank helps a lot of people also. The economy wrecks havoc on life at many different levels.

 

[gibsongrrrl]

Donating pet food to a food bank helps a lot of people also. The economy wrecks havoc on life at many different levels.

that's a really great idea!

 

[Sadieladie1994]

that's a really great idea!

 

[Wolf]

Monica' what was the Senegals name, if I may ask?

 

[Monica]

Zoey. I've heard she's doing well, but I do wonder if she still plucks or if she has stopped that, being in a new home.

 

[Wolf]

I know her, she resides in the dining room and spends a large portion of her day on Pajarita. She is a very sweet bird and when I last saw here I saw no signs of plucking. That has, of course, been a while, I had driven up to NJ to pick up a parrotlet that she had arranged for me to have as it needed a home. Any way Zoey was doing great at that time.

 

[pajarita]

But do you realize that these organizations want to make ownership of all animals by anyone obsolete? That is their goal and it's not just pets that they think we shouldn't have but they don't think we should use them for food in any way, shape, or form either. Do you think that is right? Do you not think that should be a personal choice or do you believe that every human on the earth should be a card carrying member of the vegan clan with no choice in the matter?

This is not true, it's nothing but PIJAC propaganda meant to scare owners into not pushing for better cruelty laws. If you look at what the HSUS is lobbying for you will see (go to the page where they list their campaigns and see for yourself: Stop puppy mills, Horse and Burro protection, Animals in Research, etc). There isn't a single thing there about everybody becoming vegan or not keeping a companion animal. I am not even a vegetarian, I have no moral issue with eating animal flesh, I do, however, have a HUGE issue with an animal that was bred for food or to produce to suffer terribly all its life just so people can save a dollar or two when they buy they product. I am against battery cages for hens (The Cruelest of All Factory Farm Products: Eggs From Caged Hens | Bruce Friedrich); I am against eating an animal that is not an adult, was fed an incorrect diet on purpose or was force-fed (Abuse of veal calves unveiled by hidden camera | Toronto Star and The Truth about Foie Gras - GourmetCruelty.com - Delicacy of Despair; I am against cruel and useless experimentation on animals (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/20/dining/animal-welfare-at-risk-in-experiments-for-meat-industry.html); I am against anybody keeping an animal for which the person cannot provide adequate care (and I could cite many parrot owners here! I once took two mutilating lovebirds from this lady who kept them up until 11pm every night and free-fed them seeds and when I told her that they were overly hormonal and that she needed to keep them at a solar schedule and give them a better diet, she replied that I better take them because she did not cook for herself and was not going to cook for them and that she had no TV and that they were her 'entertainment' when she came home from work - and then she went and bought two new baby lovies).

For another thing, I do firmly believe that companion animals should NOT be property (this is for the 'ownership' argument). I don't think that a dog, a cat, a parrot or any animal that you consider part of your family should be 'owned' the same way you own a chair. I think they should have a different legal status, that of 'companion animals', not quite people but not something that you can dispose of if you no longer want it (that is the law of the land nowadays: if you don't want it, you can kill it - some years ago a dog breeder in Pa was told by the USDA inspector that 4 of his dogs needed medical attention -they had mange- but the breeder did not want to spend the money so he shot them in the head) but a being that has the inalienable right to good care. The 'good' care to be spelled out by species and detailed because what they have now is completely obsolete just access to food and water (even if the water is green and the food is not enough or not adequate) and shelter from the elements (even if it is a cage outdoors all year round) and it's simply not enough. France changed its law to reflect the distinction and has endowed companions animals with a 'special' legal status, the EU has bans in place to protect animals we don't (no battery ages, no veal boxes, no gestation crates, no mutilation -like ear cropping, tail docking, de-horning, etc), Switzerland has one of the strictest and most detailed laws as to what constitutes cruelty, Sweden has 'bird' laws, in Ontario, Canada it's illegal to have a 'no pet' clause on a lease, Costa Rica has banned hunting and is closing down its zoos, etc and none of these countries has banned pets or made the entire population become vegans so, if other countries have realized that their existing laws are obsolete and change them why hasn't this happened in USA? I'll tell you why I think we are 'stuck' in the 1800's when it comes to animal protection laws: because people believe the systematic campaign of misinformation and deceptive propaganda the pet industry has been putting out for years and years so as to keep the entire industry unregulated and practices up to the individuals' sense of right and wrong (something that has NEVER worked in the entire history of mankind!).