Adopt! watch parrot confidential

[Monica]

Don't know when this was done... but one of the pictures states that there are around 50,000 illegally smuggled birds are seized on the Mexico border.... makes you wonder how many actually manage to get through....

Animal Smugglers | Nat Geo Wild


Another article that states that parrots are second to drugs crossing the Mexico border into the USA.... it states that 100k-250k are sold illegally in the USA every year and that at least around 25k of them die in transit.

Contraband and the Illegal wildlife trade across the world - Le blog de Charles Danten sur les animaux


This site states that only 16.6% survive the trip across the Mexico/US border, and that 60% of wild caught parrots die before making it to market (world wide).

Living with wild caught parrots - Hurlin's Parrot Rescue


And another article.....

The Truth About the Exotic Bird Trade Will Make You Rethink Buying a Parrot in the Pet Shop | One Green Planet


In Mira Tweti's book Of Parrots and People, she went to describe some of the ways that parrots were being smuggled across, such as hiding birds within the car, as in, the fuel tank! You can read a part of the book here....

Of Parrots and People: The Sometimes Funny, Always Fascinating, and Often ... - Mira Tweti - Google Books

 

[jmfleish]

I just did a search and read a few articles about the illegal trade in parrots as well as reached out to a friend who travels a great deal in South America specifically to look at parrots in their wild habitat. Most of the articles that I read state that, while there is some smuggling going on into the US from Mexico, it is not a huge amount and that most poached birds are staying in the countries they are poached from or being moved out internationally. This is also what my friend confirmed. He said he is sure that it is still going on to some extent but stated that he never saw it happen first hand. He mentioned that he had the chance to talk to various bird trappers and had been to bird markets and met many bird keepers who were keeping very endangered Amazons that had him unpleasantly surprised (mostly on Grand Cayman and Cayman Brac). He said that they are as popular in South America as they are here.

I think that we can all agree that the poaching problem would probably be worse if we weren't domestically rearing them in this country for the pet trade. I also think that it comes down to knowing where your bird is coming from if you choose to buy a baby.

Here is an article that I read by LaFeber that I found interesting and they give you ways to combat the problem as well and I think it's fair to remember that it isn't just parrots that get smuggled, it's all animals.

Understanding the Illegal Parrot Trade « LafeberVet.com

As fir Mira Tweti, once again, I just do not like her for several reasons. She bloats the statistics on how long parrots live, how many are in captivity, and she works hand in hand with HSUS. So, she's not someone I would run to for information.

 

[LaSelva]

Thanks, Monica. Not that I "like" the content of your post despite clicking the button but that it shows how the illegal trade in wildlife continues despite breeding.

Mira came about parrot ownership by taking in a bird that her friends could no longer keep. I believe that it was her struggles to understand her new pet that led her to explore how they fare in captivity as a whole and therefore the entire industry worldwide. She strikes me as a person who came into the role of activist through what she has discovered and how it influenced her. Although I don't know what she's doing these days.

Her book starts out with an exploration of the evolution of birds as well as the evolution of flight. She then goes into the extraordinary dedication of some owners in how they've revolved their lives around their birds. She talks about Dr. Pepperberg as well as some other very intelligent African Grey's, and avian intelligence in general.

She explores ecotourism, the formation of national parks, in a chapter devoted to Dr. Charles Munn. She also devotes a section to the life of famous parrot trapper Carlinhos. Goes to Loro Parque and meets Spix's Macaws. And visits shelters, bird mills, etc. (and this is where the book gets a bit more serious regarding the plight of parrots). Discusses companies like Kaytee and how they conduct research and development. Even recalling these things now, the book is pretty broad in scope.

For those interested it's called "Of Parrots and People."

 

[Monica]

I think that, just because we may not like someone, or some thing, that we can't learn from it, still.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

"and I think it's fair to remember that it isn't just parrots that get smuggled, it's all animals."

...including people. And I am pretty certain that there are laws govering "poaching" people...the term used is kidnapping or human slavery. You have not stopped drugs, or slavery what makes one think they will stop parrots that are illegal. Changes have to be made in other areas such as the origin of the illegal object and what the pay off is. It is about education of those that live here. How parents teach children about animals. Making information available about animals to help parents teach. We like things simple or one answer fixes everything.

 

[jmfleish]

"and I think it's fair to remember that it isn't just parrots that get smuggled, it's all animals."

...including people. And I am pretty certain that there are laws govering "poaching" people...the term used is kidnapping or human slavery. You have not stopped drugs, or slavery what makes one think they will stop parrots that are illegal. Changes have to be made in other areas such as the origin of the illegal object and what the pay off is. It is about education of those that live here. How parents teach children about animals. Making information available about animals to help parents teach. We like things simple or one answer fixes everything.

Very well said!

I work for a government agency that regulates trades and I can't even imagine what it would be like to try and put together the regulation of breeders and/or pet owners of parrots. I'm one of seven or eight programmers that maintains the systems that keeps track of the people in our state that have to be regulated and doing something like that for the regulation of parrots would just be terribly insane, time consuming, not to mention incredibly expensive and in the long run, I don't know that it would even help.

 

[Pentameter]

Overall, I really liked Parrot Confidential. I was happy to see they consulted our local avian vet for the film, however, I would caution everyone to remember that in this film and all documentaries, there's an agenda being pushed. They are trying to get you to see their viewpoint as the true one.

Our vet said the people who interviewed her for the film were very nice, and were highlighting an important problem, BUT they would not film any of the office birds interacting positively with people. Instead, they chose to only show footage of birds in bad shape or suffering from various issues. Now, Feathered Friends of Michigan is a great rescue and I recommend them highly. But here again, they didn't really show the positive interaction their birds have with people.

I am also skeptical of the breed and release programs, mainly because we don't really know what the survival of these birds is going to be like long-term. It's a neat idea, but whether or not these birds will thrive and reproduce in their natural habitat remains to be seen. The problem of parrots being taken from the wild is only compounded by the fact that their natural habitat is fast disappearing. We can't solve the problem of parrots being taken from the wild without first addressing their environment being taken away from them. Stopping wild-caught schemes is important, but without a forest to return to, what do the birds really have...

As a pet store employee (hopefully not for much longer), I've seen first hand what condition many of the animals are in. Don't buy from pet stores. I love my birds, both of whom came from stores (albeit at a highly discounted price and with some scolding of the employees involved), but they have had a lot of vet care because the breeders who produced them do not care about the welfare of the animals they produce. Responsible breeders are few and far between; they exist, but at the end of the day, they're sort of compounding an existing issue. The few responsible ones are drowned out by hordes of irresponsible ones. It's hard to know who's worth trusting.

So, while I support the message of the documentary, which I took to be "parrots don't make good pets," I would add the caveat "for most people." There ARE people who are good parronts, but these animals are not for everyone. I am not opposed to people keeping them, but I would say limiting breeding and adopting first are important, in addition to conserving these beautiful creatures in the wild. Can a parrot thrive in captivity, yes, but keeping happy, well-adjusted birds takes a lot of work and owning a parrot of any kind is not something to be embarked upon without due research.

To quote my vet, "it's an interesting problem." It's complex and not at all black and white.

 

[LaSelva]

Well said. But I tend to wonder about the parrots positively interacting with people that were not shown. I know, for instance, that an animal doesn't have to appear to be suffering at the moment in order for the effects of abuse/neglect, deprivation, etc. to be present or manifesting. These can remain for life even though the bird finds itself in improved circumstances (in other words happier ones). The public is hardly aware of this as it is. So imo showing sick or rescue birds or those with PTSD type symptoms and then others happily interacting would take away the message that most parrots are in the former category as a result of the stress of captivity. It therefore does nothing to remedy irresponsible attitudes towards an animal more sensitive to its environment than it's given credit for. I think it's a simple matter of negating the intended lesson.

"and I think it's fair to remember that it isn't just parrots that get smuggled, it's all animals."

...including people. And I am pretty certain that there are laws govering "poaching" people...the term used is kidnapping or human slavery. You have not stopped drugs, or slavery what makes one think they will stop parrots that are illegal. Changes have to be made in other areas such as the origin of the illegal object and what the pay off is. It is about education of those that live here. How parents teach children about animals. Making information available about animals to help parents teach. We like things simple or one answer fixes

And this goes right back to the existence of an illegal trade for what is in demand. And I think this documentary can influence responsible demand and dissuade impulse coveting. Because, just by the mere fact that they are sold as pets, people think that they are.

We can influence demand through proper education. And that proper education has to have as its basis the biology and nature of parrots. And they are mostly in line with the anti-pet sentiment (the ethical dilemma in caging a sentient being) and contrary to the behaviorist view that they can be molded to fit such a role. They are exotic and we're the ones who have to change to meet their needs - as best as we understand them.

 

[jmfleish]

And of course they don't want to take our pets away...here is the latest and greatest:

COMING TO A PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE SOON

Clark County Nevada
ACTION ALERT

"THIS IS AN ACTION ALERT FOR ALL CLARK COUNTY AND LAS VEGAS EXOTIC
ANIMAL OWNERS.

Clark County is in the process of drafting and attempting to implement
new animal regulations again. And this time it's a real doozy. They want
to ban the captive breeding of ALL ANIMALS that are not dogs and cats.
This will include all reptiles, amphibians, all fish, all birds and all
small mammals such as sugar gliders, rabbits, chinchillas, and all
rodents (hamsters, rats, mice). The regulation says ALL ANIMALS. This
may or may not include INVERTEBRATES, depending on how the county
defines animals. That would mean NO tarantulas, roaches, or crickets.

What does this MEAN TO YOU? It means if you own a pair of Leopard Geckos
and you keep them together and the female lays eggs and you allow them
to hatch, you have broken the law. If you breed Canaries and you allow
them to stay together and babies hatch from this pairing, you have
broken the law. If you have a fish tank full of Guppies and they make
more Guppies, you will be in violation of county law. If you breed
feeder rodents such as rats, mice, or rabbits you are breaking the law.
If you legally collect a Gopher Snake and it lays eggs and you incubate
and hatch them, you are a criminal according to these propose
regulations. As mentioned, how they define ANIMAL is going to either
make it legal or illegal to breed insects or other invertebrates. If it
makes it illegal, then say goodbye to breeding crickets, roaches,
spiders, tarantulas, meal worms, horned worms, and earthworms.
Springtails will be forbidden. Same with fruit flies.

The SECOND PART OF THIS REGULATION BANS THE SELLING OF ANY ANIMAL BY
PRIVATE PARTIES. That means ANY ANIMAL. If you get caught posting a
Crested gecko for sale on Craig's list or on Face Book or on a web site
you will be tracked down and arrested. If you invite friends to your
home and sell them ANY ANIMAL you will be a criminal. You will not be
able to sell any animal, period. No birds, no rats, no mice, no
hamsters. NOTHING. NADA. ZIP. The only way you can legally sell anything
is if you are a licensed business like a pet store. Some have claimed
they can obtain a business license for their homes. Even though it might
be possible, it is doubtful. You'll have to get a special use permit
from the county first anyway. This means that all your neighbors and
anyone that reads your license, which is provided to all the public by
law, will know exactly what you have in your house. Your home will also
be subject to open inspections by the police, animal control and the state.

Local pet stores in the area often depend on locally produced animals to
sell in their stores. Most rats and mice are produced by home breeders,
as are most feeder insect except for crickets. If this ban takes place,
many stores will have to turn to outside of Nevada sources for feeders.
This will cause a price increase across the board, meaning it will cost
you more to provide food for your animals. Many pet stores also purchase
bread and butter animals from local breeders such as Corn Snakes, King
Snakes, Leopard Geckos, Crested Geckos and so on. Once again stores will
be forced to purchase these animals out of state, causing another price
increase.

WHAT CAN YOU DO? Share this with as many people as you can. Ask Nevada
local Face Book pages that deal with pets in any way to post and pin
this to the top of their FB pages. You can also join the Facebook page
Save our Exotics at Log into Facebook | Facebook This page is
there to garner support and information about not only the county
regulations, but also for state and other local law issues. Join in on
the conversation, add ideas and give them your input. Join the Southern
Nevada Herpetological Society (Home Page and The Southern Nevada Herpetological Society | Facebook This group will keep you abreast on all
things reptile and exotic going on in Nevada.

WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO? Keep up to date on the goings on around you. Check
local government sites for anything they try to sneak in on us. And PLAN
TO ATTEND ALL COUNTY, CITY AND STATE MEETINGS WHEN YOU ARE ASKED TO.
There is strength in numbers, and we will need as many bodies as
possible to attend these meetings and hearings. You may or may not want
to publicly speak, and that's fine either way. But your presence will be
noted by the people that run things, and that's very important.

ANOTHER THING YOU CAN DO is sit back, relax and do nothing. This is not
a good option. I have learned in life to never expect to have anyone do
anything for you. If this set of new regulations effects you in any way,
it is your obligation to step up and do something about it. Here's your
chance.

Thank you for reading and please SHARE." - SNHS

There will be a public meeting next Thursday. All pet owners and others
affected should attend!

This text and information has been provided by the Southern Nevada
Herpetological Society (SNHS). Please follow the links provided above
for updates.

Contact information to voice your opposition:

By email: AnimalControlinfo@ClarkCountyNV.gov

By U.S. Mail at:
Clark County Animal Control
Attn: Jason Allswang
2911 East Sunset Road
Las Vegas, NV 89120

By hand delivery:
Clark County Animal Control
Attn: Jason Allswang
2911 East Sunset Road
Las Vegas, NV 89120

By fax: (702) 407-6829

View the proposed ordinance at http://usark.org/…/2015/02/Title-10-changes-Clark-County.pdf.

View the public notice at http://usark.org/…/u…/2015/02/Public-Notice-Clark-County.pdf.

View a letter to local businesses at http://usark.org/…/2015/02/letter-to-businesses-Clark-Count….
Save our exotics! (Southern Nevada Public Action)
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[ratgirl]

Actually, there are programs now that are releasing parrots bred out of captive ones into the wild successfully (15 Endangered Puerto Rican parrots released into the wild | Fox News Latino - on the same program: PARROTSÂ INTERNATIONAL - the Scarlet one: Macaw Release Programme, Costa Rica | Global Volunteer Services / Work | Study Abroad Volunteer Programs another three they are working on: Orange-Bellied Parrots to get Werribee Gym | Zoos Victoria - AZGFD.gov Game and Fish coauthors unprecedented international recovery plan for endangered thick-billed parrots - and let's not forget the Spix program which recently acquired a farm in Brazil where the last wild macaw lived in order to allow it to go back to a natural state so they can start releasing them: The Spix's Macaw. Yes, we do need to stop destroying habitats and everybody should take this into consideration when buying a product (like RPO and soy, for example).

Breeding animals is not bad, per se. It's the way it's done, whether their physiological and emotional needs are fulfilled, if the market can support more animals or not (overpopulation), and what the animal is bred for that makes the difference. Personally, I don't agree with breeding companion animals to be sold as merchandise, if it's impossible to keep them happy and healthy in captivity, if there are already too many out there or to breed them to be used as 'entertainment'.

And, no, I don't 'buy' the AR position without giving it any thought. I have actually given it A LOT of thought! And why is it that AR is used as a bad word in a site which devotes itself to the wellbeing of animals? Don't we all love animals and want to see them protected from abuse and neglect? AR is not Peta, you know...

-------------------
To me, 'AR' is very different from AW or Animal Welfare. Animals will NEVER have rights in the way that human beings do. But it doesn't mean that legally, they don't deserve to be protected from cruelty. Most AR groups, PETA, H$U$ especially, do not really believe that animals should be companions at all. At least not at the very top core people. They suck in a lot of people who don't realize that is the end goal.

I don't know about all of your examples of captive breeding contributing to wild release, but I know that the thick-billed parrot example isn't one. In the link you provide, they say how they decided that captive breeding WAS NOT a good option. I haven't looked into all of the others. It rarely works though. I do hope that many succeed, time will tell.

 

[LaSelva]

It's seems that successes in reintroduction programs are very environment specific (as are parrots themselves). In Costa Rica's Carrara National park, they were able to build up numbers of the Scarlet Macaw from 50 to several hundreds. In Tambopata, hand raised macaws integrated into wild flocks and took wild mates, producing offspring. In the case of the thick-billed parrot, everything I've read seems to indicate that these birds stopped migrating to AZ (from Mexico - where they are also in decline) of their own accord and where their former range is degraded due to development. In addition this development has favored increased numbers of BOP. I think that this is why the reintroduction efforts of Dr. Noel Snyder did not work. There's another thread on this subject including Chris Biro's plans that might interest some.....

Will our native parrot fly the skies of Arizona again? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

or,

Thick Bills Needed for Navajo Zoo | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


From Dr. Charles Munn,

"The best example of a reintroduction project gone awry may have been the attempt to reintroduce naive, lab-raised Thick-billed Parrots in southern Arizona. In this case, the project suffered from a number of problems, namely the fact that the Thick-billed Parrot is among the most difficult of parrots to reintroduce and the reintroduction area was plagued with a high density of hungry Red-tailed Hawks happy to eat reintroduced birds. The Thick-bill is among the hardest of all parrots to reintroduce because it has a very specialized feeding ecology and normally lives in tight flocks that fly each day at high speed for enormous distances. Thus, in order to blend into a wild flock and so not be singled out and attacked by hungry hawks, released Thick-bills need to be able to extract pinecone seeds at a phenomenally fast rate and then blend perfectly into a flock as it twists and turns in high-speed, marathon daily flights. The only reintroduced Thick-bills to have notable survival success after release were wild birds that were captured in forests in Mexico and quickly released in the target forest in southern Arizona. These wild birds knew how to eat efficiently and fly fast and precisely, and so were able to survive in the face of the major hawk populations in that part of the United States.”

 

[ratgirl]

It's seems that successes in reintroduction programs are very environment specific (as are parrots themselves). In Costa Rica's Carrara National park, they were able to build up numbers of the Scarlet Macaw from 50 to several hundreds. In Tambopata, hand raised macaws integrated into wild flocks and took wild mates, producing offspring. In the case of the thick-billed parrot, everything I've read seems to indicate that these birds stopped migrating to AZ (from Mexico - where they are also in decline) of their own accord and where their former range is degraded due to development. In addition this development has favored increased numbers of BOP. I think that this is why the reintroduction efforts of Dr. Noel Snyder did not work. There's another thread on this subject including Chris Biro's plans that might interest some.....

Will our native parrot fly the skies of Arizona again? | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum



Chris Biro's attempt isn't going to go anywhere. And the first attempt that Dr. Munn referred to, they did nothing to teach the birds about predators before release. Pretty much one RTH ate all of the released birds. It was really poorly thought out and executed. I won't go into the problems with Chris, but suffice it to say, it's not going to happen.

 

[LaSelva]

There is footage of Dr. Snyder using a fake hawk on a wire, flying it over an outdoor aviary housing Thick-Billed parrots intended for future release. It appears in a PBS Nature doc. called "Look Who's Talking." Apparently it wasn't enough and that illustrates how difficult reintroductions can be. Considering the known successes and failures it becomes obvious that an intact environment plays a key role.

In addition, I still don't see any certainty as to the nature of the populations that existed in AZ in the first place. Whether they were seasonal visitors, or breeding there. I haven't given Chris Biro's project much thought since those two original threads, but if you read them, even then I was in doubt due to a lack of any kind of feasibility assessments.

I think humanity should take care to realize that when we degrade a balanced ecosystem we cannot easily put back one particular part of it because it appeals to an aesthetic notion of ours.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

I believe Rick Jordan has also spoken about the thick bill project and I can't remember where I read it or he talked about it at one of the seminars I went to. It is thought that the thick bill was seasonal flying up from Mexico. Also at one talk I went to it was talked about that at reintroduction the raised birds need to know how to hunt and get around in the wild. I forget what parrot they were talking of but with limited birds available one could use a different species to teach another. I know of a breeder using an ekkie hen to feed a CAG (as babies they feed differently) Suragate feeding is seen in other species, why not parrots. In the case I mentioned the feeding was successful.