• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

What mutation is this?

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
25,980
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
What do you mean?
 

Zara

♥❀Livin´ in Lovebird Land❀☼
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Avenue Concierge
Joined
1/8/18
Messages
31,484
Location
Reino de España
Very beautiful :swoon:

Hopefully some of the budgie people will be along to help you. I'm sure someone will know the name for this mutation :)

@Sparkles99 @AussieBird @Lori D Pert
 

Sparkles99

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
6,399
Location
Ontario, Canada
I’m not so good with dilution mutations, but Aussiebird is. Your bird is beautiful! :)
 

AussieBird

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
7/23/20
Messages
4,663
Real Name
Call me AB
It's greywing or dilute, I keeping going back and forth but I think Greywing.
 

Kamoebas

Strolling the yard
Joined
5/24/23
Messages
94
It's greywing or dilute, I keeping going back and forth but I think Greywing.
I don’t really know what it is. i google images of those mutations but they both look like my bird. I’m guessing greywing is the mutation.
 

Karearea

Meeting neighbors
Joined
12/1/20
Messages
70
Your bird is gorgeous! To clear some things up, both dilute and greywing are dilution mutations. Greywing only has a slight dilution, from a distance you might even call it a regular blue budgie. However, dilutes are much lighter (usually ~50% dilution). The bird pictured on the left is a greywing, while the one pictured on the right is a regular blue - unfortunately I didn't have any blue dilutes to compare as well haha.
The very light blue body color and cheek markings mean that your bird is definitely a dilute instead of a greywing!
1685913842829.png
 

AussieBird

Rollerblading along the road
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
7/23/20
Messages
4,663
Real Name
Call me AB
Your bird is gorgeous! To clear some things up, both dilute and greywing are dilution mutations. Greywing only has a slight dilution, from a distance you might even call it a regular blue budgie. However, dilutes are much lighter (usually ~50% dilution). The bird pictured on the left is a greywing, while the one pictured on the right is a regular blue - unfortunately I didn't have any blue dilutes to compare as well haha.
The very light blue body color and cheek markings mean that your bird is definitely a dilute instead of a greywing!
View attachment 430260
I know my mutation knowledge is limited but this is very different to what I've been reading about these mutations.
Greywings can have a dilution of up to 50%.
Dilutes is anywhere up to 80%.
To me that means the actual dilution varies bird to bird and quality of breeding.
So you could have a greywing that is 50% dilute and a dilute that is 50%.
And to me if we use the cheek patch (which was causing me a lot of confusing) it looks greywing because the cheek patch is still very dark, not heavily diluted.
Again it's likely you're correct, it's just your post seems to contradict a lot of what I've read.

Maybe @grafton can share some thoughts?
 

Sparkles99

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
6,399
Location
Ontario, Canada
@Karearea Do you also know what mutation would make the wing markings on a spangle budgie grey/faded instead of black?

I have most of these mutations figured out but not the lightening of the wing markings. I don’t have good pics on my new phone so am linking to past posts.

Cloud & Ernest are still with us. Moss is not. Some of Cloud & Moss’ clutch mates were also spangle but had black wing markings.


 

Karearea

Meeting neighbors
Joined
12/1/20
Messages
70
I know my mutation knowledge is limited but this is very different to what I've been reading about these mutations.
Greywings can have a dilution of up to 50%.
Dilutes is anywhere up to 80%.
To me that means the actual dilution varies bird to bird and quality of breeding.
So you could have a greywing that is 50% dilute and a dilute that is 50%.
And to me if we use the cheek patch (which was causing me a lot of confusing) it looks greywing because the cheek patch is still very dark, not heavily diluted.
Again it's likely you're correct, it's just your post seems to contradict a lot of what I've read.

Maybe @grafton can share some thoughts?
The numbers bit was my bad, mixed up greywing and regular dilute (I'll try to edit and fix). The amount of dilution does vary, but not a whole lot in your average budgie - though I'm sure there have been at least a few breeders who try to selectively breed for different levels. Apologies, mutations are super confusion and I didn't mean to make that harder for you :')
 

Karearea

Meeting neighbors
Joined
12/1/20
Messages
70
@Karearea Do you also know what mutation would make the wing markings on a spangle budgie grey/faded instead of black?

I have most of these mutations figured out but not the lightening of the wing markings. I don’t have good pics on my new phone so am linking to past posts.

Cloud & Ernest are still with us. Moss is not. Some of Cloud & Moss’ clutch mates were also spangle but had black wing markings.


The interesting thing about spangles is that other mutations can influence the color of the dark spangle markings. Dark factor (AKA dark green and olive) and violet factor change the shade of the dark feather edges, making them slightly lighter and closer to the body color. I suspect that's what's going on here rather than a cinnamon or grey-wing mutation, which would either give the markings a brown wash or dilute the body just a little more than it currently is. Their age can also have some impact, their markings will darken just slightly as they mature, but this definitely isn't the only contributing factor to what you're seeing. Just my thoughts :)
 

WillowQ

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
2/4/23
Messages
1,955
Real Name
Heather Gerbyshak
I don’t know what mutation he is but he’s serene looking and beautiful. I’ve been more interested in budgies lately, now that I see such friendly take little guys.
 

Sparkles99

Biking along the boulevard
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
8/9/20
Messages
6,399
Location
Ontario, Canada
Wow! Thank you! I had no idea that dark factor(s) would make spangle wing markings lighter! I bet you’re right. I think all three of those guys have 2 dark factors.

All three of the budgies in question have at least 1 dark factor, & I do have a budgie (Winston) with both 1 dark factor & 1 grey factor, & his green is different from Ernest’s or the late Moss’, plus he has the unmistakable black tail of that combo.

I also have a budgie (Pistachio) with 1 dark factor & no other mutations. His green is also different.

Does spangle usually impact the dark factor body colour too?
 

Shezbug

ASK ME FOR PICTURES OF MY MACAW!
Super Moderator
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
4/28/18
Messages
25,980
Location
Vic, Australia
Real Name
Shez
Basically, feather mutations are when the pattern of the feather colors are much more different than parakeets without the mutation.
Sorry, yes, I’m aware of what a mutation is- my reply was not very clear I realise now. I was trying to ask if you wanted help with a name for the mutation your bird has or you just wanted to share your pretty little guy.
 

Karearea

Meeting neighbors
Joined
12/1/20
Messages
70
Wow! Thank you! I had no idea that dark factor(s) would make spangle wing markings lighter! I bet you’re right. I think all three of those guys have 2 dark factors.

All three of the budgies in question have at least 1 dark factor, & I do have a budgie (Winston) with both 1 dark factor & 1 grey factor, & his green is different from Ernest’s or the late Moss’, plus he has the unmistakable black tail of that combo.

I also have a budgie (Pistachio) with 1 dark factor & no other mutations. His green is also different.

Does spangle usually impact the dark factor body colour too?
The spangle mutation doesn't change anything about the shade of the body, it's a form of pied that "reverses" the color of the feather markings on the wings, neck, and head. The yellow-green edge becomes the main color of the feather, while the black main feather color becomes the edge. The blue of the tail is inverted as well, becoming yellow/clear-colored. (If that's what you are mean)
 

Kamoebas

Strolling the yard
Joined
5/24/23
Messages
94
Sorry, yes, I’m aware of what a mutation is- my reply was not very clear I realise now. I was trying to ask if you wanted help with a name for the mutation your bird has or you just wanted to share your pretty little guy.
Yes, I don’t know the name of his mutation.
 

grafton

Strolling the yard
Joined
7/15/20
Messages
88
Location
New York
Real Name
Grafton
I know my mutation knowledge is limited but this is very different to what I've been reading about these mutations.
Greywings can have a dilution of up to 50%.
Dilutes is anywhere up to 80%.
To me that means the actual dilution varies bird to bird and quality of breeding.
So you could have a greywing that is 50% dilute and a dilute that is 50%.
And to me if we use the cheek patch (which was causing me a lot of confusing) it looks greywing because the cheek patch is still very dark, not heavily diluted.
Again it's likely you're correct, it's just your post seems to contradict a lot of what I've read.

Maybe @grafton can share some thoughts?
I agree with you, greywing. And your understanding of greywings and dilutes is correct.
 
Top