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  • This forum is for advice about initial treatment given to your injured/sick bird until a qualified avian veterinarian is available.
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Urgent Veins in crop, yeast or other bacterial infection?

T. gillii

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From the PDF:
"Disease, if it is going to occur, develops 10 to 14 days after exposure. It is characterized by generalized hemorrhage, moderate to massive hepatic necrosis, and an immune-complex glomerulopathy. Characteristic karyomegalic changes and intranuclear inclusion bodies are typically found in macrophages and other antigen processing cells, including the mesangial cells of the glomerulus. The vast majority of birds with these lesions die. Adult birds and nestlings that are infected but do not develop disease will remain viremic for a variable period of time and shed virus in their droppings, and possibly in feather dander and skin, before becoming virus-negative. Most infected birds clear the virus after several weeks to several months and, although they maintain a persistent antibody titer, are not thought to be persistently infected"

Here is a chat GPT summary from this paragraph and others in the text:
"This disease appears in birds 10 to 14 days after exposure. It causes severe internal bleeding, liver damage, and kidney problems. Most birds with these symptoms do not survive. Some infected birds don’t get sick but can spread the virus through their droppings, feather dust, and skin for weeks or months before clearing the infection.


Different parrot species react differently to the virus. Conures younger than 6 weeks old and macaws and eclectus parrots under 14 weeks are the most at risk. Infected baby birds often seem healthy but suddenly die with little to no warning. Some signs before death include delayed digestion, weakness, pale or bruised skin, and, rarely, yellow urates. Blood tests, if done before death, may show liver damage and low platelet levels. Birds that die are usually in good body condition but may have an enlarged spleen and liver, internal bleeding, and fluid buildup in the abdomen or around the heart.


Some birds survive the initial disease but develop severe swelling (edema) and fluid buildup in their abdomen (ascites). Even though they remain alert, eat, and digest food, their condition does not improve. This may be due to low protein levels caused by liver failure or protein loss from the kidneys. These birds either die or must be euthanized. Unlike those that die suddenly, these birds do not have obvious viral inclusion bodies, making diagnosis harder. The disease closely resembles another viral infection (eastern equine encephalitis), which can cause confusion. However, these birds still carry a high amount of the virus, which can be detected in blood, cloacal swabs, or liver samples through PCR testing."
 

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T. gillii

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I would say it is worthwhile to get your birds tested even if you never plan to breed again. The disease is quite contagious and if your birds test positive, you may want to take extra precautions when picking up food or supplies. If you can send a general location I can see if there is a lab near you that offers testing (they mail sample kits, you get a small blood sample from the quick of your birds nail, mail it out, and get results within 5-7 days).
 

BeccaLuna

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I would say it is worthwhile to get your birds tested even if you never plan to breed again. The disease is quite contagious and if your birds test positive, you may want to take extra precautions when picking up food or supplies. If you can send a general location I can see if there is a lab near you that offers testing (they mail sample kits, you get a small blood sample from the quick of your birds nail, mail it out, and get results within 5-7 days).
I'm in the UK, in the South East. from the look of it I can order a test online but i'd probably enquire with a vet to see if they could do it as i'd feel better about them getting the proper samples.
 

T. gillii

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I'm in the UK, in the South East. from the look of it I can order a test online but i'd probably enquire with a vet to see if they could do it as i'd feel better about them getting the proper samples.
It isn't difficult to do, I do my testing myself since I have so many birds. I use alcohol wipes on the tools, keep a clotting agent handy (kwik stop or corn starch), and very small nail clippers. You put the nail up to the card (do not touch the sample area with your hand, etc) and get a few drops of blood. Set it down, allow it to dry, and put it in the bag provided (assuming the sample kit is similar). Label each sample with the bird's name.

The upcharge at the vet is usually hundreds of dollars per test. I can get a polyomavirus test done at home here for $20, at the vet it is $200+

Here is a great affordable lab! Avigenics ~ Europe's best service for bird DNA testing
 

BeccaLuna

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It isn't difficult to do, I do my testing myself since I have so many birds. I use alcohol wipes on the tools, keep a clotting agent handy (kwik stop or corn starch), and very small nail clippers. You put the nail up to the card (do not touch the sample area with your hand, etc) and get a few drops of blood. Set it down, allow it to dry, and put it in the bag provided (assuming the sample kit is similar). Label each sample with the bird's name.

The upcharge at the vet is usually hundreds of dollars per test. I can get a polyomavirus test done at home here for $20, at the vet it is $200+

Here is a great affordable lab! Avigenics ~ Europe's best service for bird DNA testing
Oh that's perfect and really cheap as well! Thank you. They also do dna sexing so if the babies make it a few more weeks I might do those as well
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Oh that's perfect and really cheap as well! Thank you. They also do dna sexing so if the babies make it a few more weeks I might do those as well
How are your babies doing today Rebecca?
 

BeccaLuna

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How are your babies doing today Rebecca?
They're still doing very well today! Great appetite, active babies and lots of good coloured poops! Hoping to see a good number on the scales when we wake up tomorrow morning. He's 4 weeks old today with his sibling being 3 weeks tomorrow. Just keeping everything crossed still that we continue to have good days and keep on growing!
 

Mockinbirdiva

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They're still doing very well today! Great appetite, active babies and lots of good coloured poops! Hoping to see a good number on the scales when we wake up tomorrow morning. He's 4 weeks old today with his sibling being 3 weeks tomorrow. Just keeping everything crossed still that we continue to have good days and keep on growing!
That's all great news! I'm so happy they're improving and doing so well. You're doing a great job with them. Thanks for the update!
 

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That's all great news! I'm so happy they're improving and doing so well. You're doing a great job with them. Thanks for the update!
He had emptied his crop this morning and all was good but he now hasn't emptied it again at all since his last feed, which was 3.5 hours ago :(
 

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He had emptied his crop this morning and all was good but he now hasn't emptied it again at all since his last feed, which was 3.5 hours ago :(
Sorry to hear this. I hope it has been better through the day for him. How is the other chick doing? Keep a chart on the amount of formula you feed if you haven't started yet. Was his weight the same?
 

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Sorry to hear this. I hope it has been better through the day for him. How is the other chick doing? Keep a chart on the amount of formula you feed if you haven't started yet. Was his weight the same?
We ended up a different vet last night who examined him and said he seems very happy and eager to eat but they did drain his crop again. He's been put on emeprid which helped his crop drain overnight and after this mornings feed but after his afternoon feed it's stopped draining again at the moment. His sibling also started having issues today so I gave him some emeprid as well and it helped it to start draining.

I think it's too early to know at the moment but i'm worried now his sibling has shown signs of a slow crop that this is something viral. We have a follow up appointment on Tuesday but I'm hoping I can get things moving again as it's the weekend and emergency vet's only right now, which after 3 other vet visits isn't really affordable for me now.

He's stayed at 30 grams all week now. He was gaining weight and then lost it when he was struggling at the beginning of the week, only to gain 3 grams again wednesday/thursday and then stay stagnant after fridays issues.

I'll see how we go tonight and tomorrow and hope things get moving again, but i'm not sure how long something like this can be fought against with such a fragile baby.
 

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I have everything crossed for you :heart: And your little ones
 

Mockinbirdiva

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We ended up a different vet last night who examined him and said he seems very happy and eager to eat but they did drain his crop again. He's been put on emeprid which helped his crop drain overnight and after this mornings feed but after his afternoon feed it's stopped draining again at the moment. His sibling also started having issues today so I gave him some emeprid as well and it helped it to start draining.

I think it's too early to know at the moment but i'm worried now his sibling has shown signs of a slow crop that this is something viral. We have a follow up appointment on Tuesday but I'm hoping I can get things moving again as it's the weekend and emergency vet's only right now, which after 3 other vet visits isn't really affordable for me now.

He's stayed at 30 grams all week now. He was gaining weight and then lost it when he was struggling at the beginning of the week, only to gain 3 grams again wednesday/thursday and then stay stagnant after fridays issues.

I'll see how we go tonight and tomorrow and hope things get moving again, but i'm not sure how long something like this can be fought against with such a fragile baby.
Well, that is very disappointing for you but I am glad you went to another vet. All you can do is try to give them the best chance possible and you are definitely doing that. I would have thought it was just an issue with the one chick and it's more concerning with the second chick having a slow crop now too. I would be curious to know what a culture on the formula removed from the crop might show. Praying for your babies to come through this. Not many people can handle this kind of challenge. I know it must be hard but still, you're doing a great job.
 

BeccaLuna

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Well, that is very disappointing for you but I am glad you went to another vet. All you can do is try to give them the best chance possible and you are definitely doing that. I would have thought it was just an issue with the one chick and it's more concerning with the second chick having a slow crop now too. I would be curious to know what a culture on the formula removed from the crop might show. Praying for your babies to come through this. Not many people can handle this kind of challenge. I know it must be hard but still, you're doing a great job.
Thank you, i'm sure you've helped me all you can with these babies but sometimes it's just good to hear that what i'm doing is right and i'm not putting them through unnecessary suffering.

I'm going to ask about getting a culture done but in the meantime i'm just feeding a very watery formula. His crop is going down but very very slowly so lots of massages. He's stayed at the same weight since the beginning of the week but is looking incredibly skinny now
 

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Emma&pico

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Thank you, i'm sure you've helped me all you can with these babies but sometimes it's just good to hear that what i'm doing is right and i'm not putting them through unnecessary suffering.

I'm going to ask about getting a culture done but in the meantime i'm just feeding a very watery formula. His crop is going down but very very slowly so lots of massages. He's stayed at the same weight since the beginning of the week but is looking incredibly skinny now
You are doing amazing but I would definitely take him back to vets he does look to be skinny I have everything crossed for you
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Thank you, i'm sure you've helped me all you can with these babies but sometimes it's just good to hear that what i'm doing is right and i'm not putting them through unnecessary suffering.

I'm going to ask about getting a culture done but in the meantime i'm just feeding a very watery formula. His crop is going down but very very slowly so lots of massages. He's stayed at the same weight since the beginning of the week but is looking incredibly skinny now
It's a shame the first vet didn't culture the formula removed in the first place. It's not too late to have that checked or at least ask the vet when you go on Tuesday. They're losing weight because the formula is thinned down and they aren't getting enough nutrients. I know you said the box was 88 degrees but if you have a reliable thermometer lay it on top of where the chicks are to double check that temp. Chilled chicks can have a more difficult time digesting food. They should only be out of the box long enough to feed them to avoid any chilling.

@Laurie is there a better product than the Emeprid to assist these chicks as in a probiotic. This person is in the UK.
 

BeccaLuna

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It's a shame the first vet didn't culture the formula removed in the first place. It's not too late to have that checked or at least ask the vet when you go on Tuesday. They're losing weight because the formula is thinned down and they aren't getting enough nutrients. I know you said the box was 88 degrees but if you have a reliable thermometer lay it on top of where the chicks are to double check that temp. Chilled chicks can have a more difficult time digesting food. They should only be out of the box long enough to feed them to avoid any chilling.

@Laurie is there a better product than the Emeprid to assist these chicks as in a probiotic. This person is in the UK.
I do have a digital thermometer I keep in there as well as one that sticks to the wall and measures temperatures higher up. Unfortunately the vet couldn't see us today but we have an appointment tomorrow. His sibling has been having issues on and off with his crop emptying, but during the feed just now I noticed this very large dark purple area. He's had no falls with me and the box isn't big enough to fall in. I know with polyoma one of the signs is haemorrhaging but unfortunately can't find any pictures on the internet of signs in alive birds to compare it to.
 

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T. gillii

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For polyoma, check the abdomen/tummy area for black or purple spots
 

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I do have a digital thermometer I keep in there as well as one that sticks to the wall and measures temperatures higher up. Unfortunately the vet couldn't see us today but we have an appointment tomorrow. His sibling has been having issues on and off with his crop emptying, but during the feed just now I noticed this very large dark purple area. He's had no falls with me and the box isn't big enough to fall in. I know with polyoma one of the signs is haemorrhaging but unfortunately can't find any pictures on the internet of signs in alive birds to compare it to.
Glad you have got him appointment for tomorrow really praying for this little one

does he have black spots anywhere else ?
where is it located looks like his leg ? Does it go all way down to his foot are his feet feel cold ?
 
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