To clip or not to clip

[Bella&James]

Hi, I own a pair of 4 months old lovebirds called Bella and James(after Bellatrix and James Potter of course ). I have previously owned a female cockatiel called Gambit (after the X-men superhero). My grandma used to own an Indian Ringneck called Mala(Hindi for garland) and a big majestic Alexandrian Parakeet called Kuyasha(Bengali for fog).

Gambit passed away, but while she was alive, I had never clipped her wings. She was quite calm, but only when outside the cage. She would sit on my shoulders and take scritches without fear, but once inside her cage she used to be scared of my hands and run away. The reason I'm telling you guys this is because none of the birds we've owned were hand tamed. You see, where I live, in Kolkata, India, we don't get hand fed birds. Ringnecks and Alexandrian birds are now banned for sale in India, which is a good thing. But the other birds, such as cockatiels, lovebirds and budgies, are NOT hand fed, and most of them have been abused with poor diet and bad handling as such.

It took me a year to tame my cockatiel and she wasn't even fully tamed. I've checked a lot of sites, and most of them suggest two things:

a. get a hand tamed bird
b. clip their wings

So, since option a isn't possible, I will now come to option b.

I have nothing against people who trim the flight feathers. I understand it is for their safety and for taming them faster. But personally, I am against trimming their feathers. I give my birds lots of free time outside their cages, and I enjoy watching them fly around and play. Getting my Gambit to go inside her cage was easy, but argh getting the lovebirds to do the same is hard! They are scared of my hands, so I use a big long stick to get them to sit on it, and then try to coax them into the cage. It takes me a long time to get them to accept the stick, with me jumping around the room and trying to make them understand. They are so naughty

I know clipping will make them more docile, and help me tame them faster. But at the same time, there are practically no vets who can do that for me, and it feels kind of wrong to cut away the wings that nature had given them.

Is there a faster way to tame these lovelies without clipping their wings? Any tips will be helpful. And if there are no other options, how do I clip the wings so that they don't get hurt?

And if any of you guys are from Kolkata, please suggest a vet who can do that for me. The one I go to only goes as far as to suggest medicines. He bluntly told me it's against his ethics to clip wings.

 

[sunnysmom]

I personally am against clipping wings unless it's for safety reasons. I think it's better for a bird mentally and physically to be able to fly. I know a lot of people suggest to do so for training purposes but I see it as forced dependency. I think the best thing to do is just be patient with them and try to work at their pace. Feeding them treats, spending time with them, etc. Can you work with them in a small room where there's less places for them to go?

 

[Mizzely]

Taming a bird who is clipped is only "easier" because they are essentially helpless. My quaker came to me clipped (AND hand fed) and was super easy to "tame". Well, as soon as he got his feathers back I had to start over! And that's not a unique experience. Lots of people talk about how their bird suddenly "doesn't listen" or "doesn't like them" after regaining flight. So they keep clipping them to keep them helpless and docile. Since their entire body is engineered for flight, it can be detrimental to their health (one of the top reasons birds die in captivity is due to heart disease, which is caused by lack of exercise and bad diet.). So in my opinion, if you want a healthy, happy, and confident companion, it is worth a little extra time to tame them right the first time.

 

[nellysmom]

Clipping is a personal choice for whatever reason. Don't let anyone try to guilt you into doing anything you don't want to

 

[Bella&James]

Taming a bird who is clipped is only "easier" because they are essentially helpless. My quaker came to me clipped (AND hand fed) and was super easy to "tame". Well, as soon as he got his feathers back I had to start over! And that's not a unique experience. Lots of people talk about how their bird suddenly "doesn't listen" or "doesn't like them" after regaining flight. So they keep clipping them to keep them helpless and docile. Since their entire body is engineered for flight, it can be detrimental to their health (one of the top reasons birds die in captivity is due to heart disease, which is caused by lack of exercise and bad diet.). So in my opinion, if you want a healthy, happy, and confident companion, it is worth a little extra time to tame them right the first time.

Thank you. It's really stressing me out at the moment because I'm scared that my birds will fly into nooks and crannies and won't come back to me since they aren't trained. I've made some progress but yeah...if only birds didn't consider us as giant leviathans about to eat them!

 

[Calpurnia]

I'm personally against clipping simply to make a bird more docile. @Mizzely is exactly right, clipping MAY make a bird more docile but that's only because they realize the HAVE to depend on you to get around. The problem is, other negative side-effects can crop up from clipping. A bird may become more anxious or depressed because they've suddenly lost this huge aspect of control over their lives. Is this how you want to tame your birds? By forcing them to submit to your demands because they have no other choice?

I think your dilemma is a common one that parrot owners face, unfortunately. Most people have desire to tame their birds as fast as possible WITHOUT considering that maybe it's them that needs to change, not the birds. Frankly, IMO clipping to tame a bird is lazy. Instead I would take a hard look at myself and ask, "If I improved my training techniques would what I'm doing now be more effective?" Please don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to say you are a horrible person or anything. You have really good intentions, and it's obvious you love your birds. It's just that it's a very human-like behavior to believe that it's up to others to change to accommodate our desires, not ourselves.

Your heart is telling you what your head does not want to believe. Yes your birds will be happier and physically healthier being allowed to keep their flight. And I appreciate the fact that your vet is refusing to do the procedure since there is no obvious safety concern to make it necessary.

Taming and bonding can occur even if a bird is flighted with enough positive reinforcement. I don't know if you can get the book in India but it might be worth checking.... "Getting Started: Clicker Training for Birds" by Melinda Johnson is a great resource for the beginning trainer. I think you have the will and the motivation to try and train your birds right, so if you can just add the knowledge of positive reinforcement techniques to your arsenal you'll be golden! The whole idea is using force-free training to convince your birds that interacting with you gives them lots of positive benefits. For example, when you were teaching your lovies to step up onto a stick did you bribe them with treats? Did you respect their body language and respond accordingly?

It may be best (in the meantime) to not give your birds free roam of the house/room until they are reliably stick trained. That way you don't ruin your progress by chasing them around and scaring them when you try to put them back in their cage.

There is plenty of more information online that pertains to positive reinforcement training. Check out the webinars and DVDs of animal trainer Barbara Heidenreich at GoodBirdInc.com.

 

[Mizzely]

Neither of my birds like to step up, and one is not tame. So I trained them to "go home" to avoid having to chase them around. An easy way to do this is about an hour before you want them to go to the cage, remove all food. Then make a big deal about putting new food in the cage, with a treat inside (I have one bird that loves pumpkin seeds, so I only give them when I need him back in his cage). When they get in the cage (I have a perch on the door that I use as the "in" point), say HOME. This helps them learn what that sound means. It takes a few weeks but works well and I now it takes me only a few minutes to get even the untame one to get back in his cage.

 

[Bella&James]

@Calpurnia Thank you for understanding. I do love birds in general, they are really amazing. I hate seeing them cooped up in a cage all the time, considering I sort of found them cooped up in a cage with a dozen other birds when I came across them, so every day I let them out for five to six hours with lots of toys and freedom.
I haven't tried coaxing them with treats such as millets or something, because for some reason they don't lie millets, but prefer food like peas. I do back off if they are being very loud and try again after 5 minutes. It takes a long time. Bird coaxing has become my daily exercise I suppose.

 

[Calpurnia]

That's definitely a good start! It might be worth experimenting with lots of different foods/treats until you find something that they go bonkers over! Then you can use Mizzley's technique of luring them into their cages when they are hungry.

 

[fluffypoptarts]

You'll have a much stronger bond with them if you earn their trust, respect, and affection without making them helpless. True, yours are quite unaccustomed to people and thus you have a real challenge on your hands. But just try showing them how you will treat them well and be a good servant and see if they don't come around after a bit. Clipping their wings (making them helpless with someone they're actively afraid of) may be traumatic and work against you. But if you think they're unsafe with being able to fly (that they'll get trapped somewhere you can't get to), I can see why you'd consider it...unless you have other animals in the house, which would negate that.

 

[Valkyria]

You'll have a much stronger bond with them if you earn their trust, respect, and affection without making them helpless. True, yours are quite unaccustomed to people and thus you have a real challenge on your hands. But just try showing them how you will treat them well and be a good servant and see if they don't come around after a bit. Clipping their wings (making them helpless with someone they're actively afraid of) may be traumatic and work against you. But if you think they're unsafe with being able to fly (that they'll get trapped somewhere you can't get to), I can see why you'd consider it...unless you have other animals in the house, which would negate that.

I so agree, I love watching the joy all my birds display when they fly around. (Even though my old teil these days mainly seems to enjoy walking around on the floor, talking to the dogs )

 

[fluffypoptarts]

I so agree, I love watching the joy all my birds display when they fly around. (Even though my old teil these days mainly seems to enjoy walking around on the floor, talking to the dogs )

It is beautiful to see them flying around. So you have dogs? Better to leave the birds flighted then. You know however trained or harmless the dogs seem, it only takes a moment/instinctive reaction, and no more birdy (or birdies). Separation when the birds are out is safest.

 

[Valkyria]

It is beautiful to see them flying around. So you have dogs? Better to leave the birds flighted then. You know however trained or harmless the dogs seem, it only takes a moment/instinctive reaction, and no more birdy (or birdies). Separation when the birds are out is safest.

Sorry of topic; I think you need to look at each case individually, I dont allow dogs to be indoor and the lovely ones to be out of cage at the same time, they are just too full on. My teil bird (yes thats his name) loves dogs, and dogs are so gentle with him, they will be allowed to continue spending time together. He is more fond of the Mads my brindle, bird is close to 14 years old and he grew up with my old brindle dog and she used to wash him (he climbed to bottom of cage and talked to her while she licked him til he was soaking wet), when out of cage he used to follow her everywhere, and I think he think he is more of a dog than bird, he cant stand other birds, yet love the company of my 4 legged ones

 

[Mizzely]

Sorry of topic; I think you need to look at each case individually, I dont allow dogs to be indoor and the lovely ones to be out of cage at the same time, they are just too full on. My teil bird (yes thats his name) loves dogs, and dogs are so gentle with him, they will be allowed to continue spending time together. He is more fond of the Mads my brindle, bird is close to 14 years old and he grew up with my old brindle dog and she used to wash him (he climbed to bottom of cage and talked to her while she licked him til he was soaking wet), when out of cage he used to follow her everywhere, and I think he think he is more of a dog than bird, he cant stand other birds, yet love the company of my 4 legged ones

Dog saliva can be toxic to birds and we even have members here who have lost a bird to a dog that was "gentle" or "doesn't pay attention" to their bird for YEARS and then one day...tragedy. Same with cats, my 15 year old tabby was actually AFRAID of birds because of an incident with bluejays when she was younger, and ran from the room when the birds were there. She would let them perch on her after a while. And then one day, 4 years after I brought he birds home, she stalked one. So now they don't get to be in the same room together, ever.

You can never been too careful.

 

[Bella&James]

You'll have a much stronger bond with them if you earn their trust, respect, and affection without making them helpless. True, yours are quite unaccustomed to people and thus you have a real challenge on your hands. But just try showing them how you will treat them well and be a good servant and see if they don't come around after a bit. Clipping their wings (making them helpless with someone they're actively afraid of) may be traumatic and work against you. But if you think they're unsafe with being able to fly (that they'll get trapped somewhere you can't get to), I can see why you'd consider it...unless you have other animals in the house, which would negate that.

Though I love dogs and cats and possibly a lot of other animals (my second favorite animal are baby cows...go figure) I only own birds. They are the perfect pet for me, actually. The are smart and cuddly, with tons of personality and independence as they come in a pair. I also have to go away for hours at a time(I'm a postgrad student) so it would've been rather mean of me to keep a dog or a cat all by themselves in a small apartment.

Coming back to the topic, I've been progressing. They still hate my hands, and after an incident with mites and misting, they probably loathe me. Although, they do let me touch them while they are wet(I guess it's because they can't fly off) to let me check them for mites, ever so gently. You'll think I was talking to a newly born child around them. Bella even gave me a kiss bite the other day when I pressed my face against the cage. They really hate the hands, not the face, so small blessings, I guess.

Until they are tamed, I'll just have to watch them like a hawk. There was been a time when poor James, the explorer, got stuck inside the head of my hoodie which was hanging from a hook as I was busy doing something else. It was funny but at the same time, so not okay. I'll just have to be super patient and bow down to my Gods, I assume.

 

[fluffypoptarts]

@Bella&James Oh good, so just birds. They may forgive you the indignities with time. It's awful about the mites! I hope everything goes well with the treatment.