Sisi scared me today

[Karen]

I hope the vet can figure out what's wrong so she can start to feel better.

 

[rockoko]

I hope she feels better soon

 

[Tvdv96]

So I went to the vet again today with Sisi. She behaved really well at the vet today, so I'm really proud of her for handling everything so well!
They took some blood for some tests and some feces to put on culture. They want to rule out some viruses and look at her kidney levels.
But I also talked about all the symptoms of Sisi breathing weird and not being as vocal as normal. The vet also listened to her lungs and heard a murmuring/hissing (sorry I don't know the exact word for this, as English isn't my main language) sound. And he's quite afraid she has aspergillosis. The behavior that I saw what I put to being nauseous, also seems to be quite a common sympton of birds with aspergillosis according to the vet. He says it's quite hard to test, but I will get some medication for aspergillosis. @Hankmacaw do you maybe have some tips or things I could discuss with my vet? I read the links on your thread and they were very informative.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Tvdv96 First aspergillosis has a serum test,, it's called an Asper titer - ask for that. Also ask for an xray those two tests "should" determine if asper is present. If those two are inconclusive then you need to go on to a Plasma Protein Electrophoresis, which combined with the other test should give a definitive answer. There are additional test, but get through those first and go from there.

What medication did your Dr. give you? She cannot have ITRACONAZOLE it is highly hepatoxic to African Greys specifically. There are other fungicides such as Voriconazole, and Lamisil that are not as effective as Itraconazole (Sporonox). Amphotericin B is the big dog of the fungicides, but it is also highly hepatoxic - there has been some success with nebulizing for 5-7 days with Amphotericin B without the hepatic side effects.

Keep her quiet - I have to emphasize keeping her from flying or running around or playing too much - keep her quiet. Make sure she stays warm, warmer than normal. Make sure she is well hydrated and that she is eating well. Keep her hydrated and taking in food, even if you have to feed her by syringe.

Bacterial infections are very common with aspergillosis (your bird's immune system is badly run down with asper), so don't be surprised is she comes up with one or two.

Start giving her Milk Thistle extract (non-alcoholic) because all fungicides have some hepatoxicity that comes along with it. Also put her on probiotics. The fungicide and any antibiotic kill the digestive flora and probiotics will replace them.

Aspergillosis treatment is very intense and expensive, but the more intense you are at the beginning will make a much better outcome. You must treat for a long time and don'tlet your Dr. talk you out of at least 2 and better three months of treatment (or more). Test frequently (asper titer) to make sure it is decreasing.

Ask any questions you may have and I will try to answer.

 

[Tvdv96]

@Tvdv96 First aspergillosis has a serum test,, it's called an Asper titer - ask for that. Also ask for an xray those two tests "should" determine if asper is present. If those two are inconclusive then you need to go on to a Plasma Protein Electrophoresis, which combined with the other test should give a definitive answer. There are additional test, but get through those first and go from there.

What medication did your Dr. give you? She cannot have ITRACONAZOLE it is highly hepatoxic to African Greys specifically. There are other fungicides such as Voriconazole, and Lamisil that are not as effective as Itraconazole (Sporonox). Amphotericin B is the big dog of the fungicides, but it is also highly hepatoxic - there has been some success with nebulizing for 5-7 days with Amphotericin B without the hepatic side effects.

Keep her quiet - I have to emphasize keeping her from flying or running around or playing too much - keep her quiet. Make sure she stays warm, warmer than normal. Make sure she is well hydrated and that she is eating well. Keep her hydrated and taking in food, even if you have to feed her by syringe.

Bacterial infections are very common with aspergillosis (your bird's immune system is badly run down with asper), so don't be surprised is she comes up with one or two.

Start giving her Milk Thistle extract (non-alcoholic) because all fungicides have some hepatoxicity that comes along with it. Also put her on probiotics. The fungicide and any antibiotic kill the digestive flora and probiotics will replace them.

Aspergillosis treatment is very intense and expensive, but the more intense you are at the beginning will make a much better outcome. You must treat for a long time and don'tlet your Dr. talk you out of at least 2 and better three months of treatment (or more). Test frequently (asper titer) to make sure it is decreasing.

Ask any questions you may have and I will try to answer.

First of all thank you so much for all the information!

I'm glad to know this now about the medication because I didn't know that at all! The vet prescribed fluconazale for Sisi, so luckily not one of the medications you mentioned!

I will really keep a close eye on her! I'm glad she's still eating and drinking right now.
Also a great tip to keep her warmer than normal, definitely doing that! And I will make sure she gets lots of rest.

And I will start looking for the milk thistle and probiotics! That's a great point.

I will definitely discuss the time of being treated with the Dr. Because he said to give the medication to her for 10 days.

Thank you so much for helping! If I have some more questions I will definitely ask.

 

[budgieluv3]

Hope everything works out!

 

[Tvdv96]

Hope everything works out!

Thank you so much!

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Tvdv96 Fluconozole is not very effective at all against aspergillosis.

https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Aspergillosis-Updated.pdf

." Prognosis improves if the granulomatous lesions are debrided, topical treatments are administered, and early, aggressive, systemic antifungal therapy is initiated. Topical treatment can include nebulization, nasal or air sac flushing, or surgical irrigation of the abdominal cavities. Antifungal agents employed in the treatment of aspergillosis include amphotericin B, flucytosine, ketoconazole, and itraconazole. Amphotericin B is generally accepted to be the drug of choice for the initial treatment of severe infections. It can be administered intravenously, intratracheally, or through nebulization and can be used in conjunction with one of the oral antifungal agents. Flucytosine is fungistatic and must be used for prolonged periods of time, up to 6 months or longer. Most fungi will rapidly develop resistance to this drug. Itraconazole has shown specificity and effectiveness against Aspergillus sp. and has been utilized to a wide extent. However, it has been shown to cause profound anorexia in African grey parrots, so it should be used with caution and administered at the low end of the dosage range. Terbinafine, systemic antifungal agent has proven useful in treating African grey parrots. It seems to be well tolerated and is as effective as itraconazole, thus serving as an alternative therapy to birds that cannot tolerate itraconazole. Other new systemic antifungal agents are also being used for resistant cases of Aspergillus."

Please read this;

Aspergillosis in Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals

Aspergillosis is a common cause of respiratory disease in pet birds. It can cause upper and lower respiratory problems or a more broadly distributed infections.

vcahospitals.com

 

[EagleClem]

Sending prayers and hugs that Sisi feels better very soon

 

[Tvdv96]

@Tvdv96 Fluconozole is not very effective at all against aspergillosis.

https://nilesanimalhospital.com/files/2012/05/Aspergillosis-Updated.pdf

." Prognosis improves if the granulomatous lesions are debrided, topical treatments are administered, and early, aggressive, systemic antifungal therapy is initiated. Topical treatment can include nebulization, nasal or air sac flushing, or surgical irrigation of the abdominal cavities. Antifungal agents employed in the treatment of aspergillosis include amphotericin B, flucytosine, ketoconazole, and itraconazole. Amphotericin B is generally accepted to be the drug of choice for the initial treatment of severe infections. It can be administered intravenously, intratracheally, or through nebulization and can be used in conjunction with one of the oral antifungal agents. Flucytosine is fungistatic and must be used for prolonged periods of time, up to 6 months or longer. Most fungi will rapidly develop resistance to this drug. Itraconazole has shown specificity and effectiveness against Aspergillus sp. and has been utilized to a wide extent. However, it has been shown to cause profound anorexia in African grey parrots, so it should be used with caution and administered at the low end of the dosage range. Terbinafine, systemic antifungal agent has proven useful in treating African grey parrots. It seems to be well tolerated and is as effective as itraconazole, thus serving as an alternative therapy to birds that cannot tolerate itraconazole. Other new systemic antifungal agents are also being used for resistant cases of Aspergillus."

Please read this;

Aspergillosis in Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals

Aspergillosis is a common cause of respiratory disease in pet birds. It can cause upper and lower respiratory problems or a more broadly distributed infections.

vcahospitals.com

Thank you so much! So as I understand it would be better to discuss with my vet if I could get Terbinafine for Sisi? Instead of the Fluconozole.

Sending prayers and hugs that Sisi feels better very soon

Thank you so much!

 

[Ulis_Beast]

Oh no... I am so sorry you are going through this.
I am at a loss for words.
Sending some positive energy your and Sisis way!

 

[Hankmacaw]

Yes, terbinafine or voraconazole are both effective against asper - fluconazole is not. Be sure ou ask about the milk thistle and start it immediately.

I can't emphasize enough that you don't want to let asper get ahead of you.

 

[Alexa]

Hi!
My bird also has foamy poop, did yours look like this? I can't afford a vet right at the moment (I'll take a loan if I need to but I would prefer other options...) so I was wondering what the vet prescribed for your bird? is this something that can go away or is it dangerous to wait to consult? there's also a lot of water in her poop (for context, I have a 2 yo albino rigneck dove) was it also the case for your bird? she seems otherwise healthy appart from the occasional sneezing and she just layed her first eggs (even if she is not coupled), could it be related? I love this bird more than life itself so I might seem a little bit too concerned but is this caused for concern? I have bird broad spectrum antibiotic but I'm afraid to give it, do you think I should?

 

[Tvdv96]

Oh no... I am so sorry you are going through this.
I am at a loss for words.
Sending some positive energy your and Sisis way!

Thank you so much!

Yes, terbinafine or voraconazole are both effective against asper - fluconazole is not. Be sure ou ask about the milk thistle and start it immediately.

I can't emphasize enough that you don't want to let asper get ahead of you.

Yes I will definitely ask about that too, thank you so much!

Sisi means everything to me, so will do everything for her. I will not let this get ahead of me, I'm so glad to have AA to ask my questions!

Hi!
My bird also has foamy poop, did yours look like this? I can't afford a vet right at the moment (I'll take a loan if I need to but I would prefer other options...) so I was wondering what the vet prescribed for your bird? is this something that can go away or is it dangerous to wait to consult? there's also a lot of water in her poop (for context, I have a 2 yo albino rigneck dove) was it also the case for your bird? she seems otherwise healthy appart from the occasional sneezing and she just layed her first eggs (even if she is not coupled), could it be related? I love this bird more than life itself so I might seem a little bit too concerned but is this caused for concern? I have bird broad spectrum antibiotic but I'm afraid to give it, do you think I should?

I would definitely go to the vet for this. The change of the poop can have many different reasons, and probably only a vet can tell you what's wrong and what you need for your bird. Before determining what's wrong with Sisi she had to get some tests done. I wouldn't feel comfortable with giving some sort of diagnosis while I'm not an avian vet.
It's always important to go to your vet for these things.
Hope al goes well with your bird and keep us updated!

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Tvdv96 How is Sisi doing today? Have you gotten any of the test results back?

 

[Tvdv96]

@Tvdv96 How is Sisi doing today? Have you gotten any of the test results back?

Thank you so much for asking!
Sisi is really quiet and she sleeps a lot, so she still isn't doing very well. Luckily she's still eating and drinking well!

I got a part of the test results back. There was nothing wrong with her kidney levels and some other related levels, so that's great to hear! She did have a slightly raised level which points a bit at fatty liver (I thin due to her previous diet), but the raised level was so small that the vet told me it was nothing to worry about.
I wil probably get the test results about the viruses back on Thursday.

 

[Hankmacaw]

How was her white blood cell count (WBC)?

 

[Tvdv96]

How was her white blood cell count (WBC)?

Sorry for the late reply, had a few busy days. The vet hasn't mentioned this yet, I'm unfortunately still waiting for the second half of the test results. So maybe I will know more about that then!

 

[camelotshadow]

Well wishes for speedy diagnosis & treatment

 

[Tvdv96]

Well wishes for speedy diagnosis & treatment

Thank you so much!