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Pulmonary Fibrosis

Supernova

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Hi,
I’m new in this site.Yesterday the vet told me my little cockatiel Ira is suffering from pulmonary fibrosis, we did endoscopy.Can someone write me if there’s possibility to stop the progression of the disease?Has someone already passed through this?I’m so desperate.
 

Hankmacaw

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Welcome to AA - sorry it's under such stressful circumstances.

My 34yo male GW macaw was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis by endoscopy as well. He had had severe aspergillosis several times and was not a healthy bird. His fibrosis was undoubtedly caused by Asper. To be quite honest I don't know if it progressed or not - he died from a carcinoid thyroid tumor. Just anecdotally he seemed in his best health and happiest just prior to his death. He had constant medical attention from his vet, but it was like playing whack-a-mole in that his general bad health opened him up to many other illnesses and infections.

Hank did have oxygen twice a day for an hour for the last 12 years of his life (he lived 15 years longer than he was supposed to) and I'm sure that, plus special diets, plus medications and his vet contributed to his longevity. I bought an oxygen concentrator and faithfull put him in his oxygen box for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. Perhaps you can discuss this with your vet. Used O2 concentrators are readily available to buy.
 

Supernova

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Welcome to AA - sorry it's under such stressful circumstances.

My 34yo male GW macaw was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis by endoscopy as well. He had had severe aspergillosis several times and was not a healthy bird. His fibrosis was undoubtedly caused by Asper. To be quite honest I don't know if it progressed or not - he died from a carcinoid thyroid tumor. Just anecdotally he seemed in his best health and happiest just prior to his death. He had constant medical attention from his vet, but it was like playing whack-a-mole in that his general bad health opened him up to many other illnesses and infections.

Hank did have oxygen twice a day for an hour for the last 12 years of his life (he lived 15 years longer than he was supposed to) and I'm sure that, plus special diets, plus medications and his vet contributed to his longevity. I bought an oxygen concentrator and faithfull put him in his oxygen box for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening. Perhaps you can discuss this with your vet. Used O2 concentrators are readily available to buy.
Thank you for your kind reply.Is there a website where i can buy 02 concentrators?And about the diet? Ira eats versele laga seeds, harrison’s extruded high potency fine and basmati rice with millet and lentils.To protect the liver we’re using milk whistle and Kana Rescue for immunitary system. I have no idea why he’s suffering from this disease, no Asper was found in his lung and i never cured him for pneumonia or something viral.One month ago he was 96 gr then in one week he got down to 94 in another week to 92 then 91 and he flew low.Then i took him to the vet; we found high monocites and basophili in his blood but the count of the white were ok,not very high. so the vet suspected something chronic and we did endoscopy.Liver is a little bit enlarged but with no damages.And then we found this light pulmonary fibrosis.i would like to write to an international avian veterinary to understand if there is some new or alternative cure for this disease.I’m so worried.Can you suggest me someone in particular?
 

Supernova

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Can you give me more history on the symptoms and treatments you've used so far?
Yes, sure.Symptoms were weight loss and flight low with one episode in which he opened his beak to breath after the flight.some sneeze but not so much. Tomorrow i have to talk in person with the vet.We discover yesterday this fibrosis.Until now in the last 20 days Ira was under Zhytromax because we didn’t know if there were viral or bacteric infection then i nebulized him with F10 everyday in the morning and in the evening with echinacea and arnica compositum, then a drop of milk thistle and two drop of Micox an omeophatic product against fungi.I would like to stop this fibrosis i know there’s no cure but i read about thyroid hormonal Therapy.Actually it is on a trial basis.
 
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enigma731

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What are the symptoms? How old is your bird and how is his health in general?
 

Supernova

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What are the symptoms? How old is your bird and how is his health in general?
Sorry I wrote you in the meantime. the bird is 10 years old and he is usually very active, but he began at the beginning of February with weight loss and also now he is not very hungry maybe because of the drugs.We started drugs on the 14th February. Zhytromax is very heavy for him and can cause anorexia.He was 87 until ten days ago now is 90 gr but he doesn’t look for food.I’m helping him, if I put food under his beak he eats it.His weight usually is 96.We didn’t discover why he began to lose weight.just for this chronic disease? Suddenly?We cannot understand which is the cause
 
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Hankmacaw

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I'm aware that there are many people who swear by F10 nebulization.- mostly in the ME for their Falcons. I can only tell you my personal experience. I was, like you, desperate to find something to improve my birds air sacs (Asper), so the vet said go ahead and nebulize with F10. I did for about a month and never noticed any improvement , but again that was for Asper.

I'm just not up to snuff on pulmonary fibrosis - poor Hank had several issues that were more critical, so it didn't get as much attention as it should have

If you are in Italy, you may want to do an internet search for "used oxygen concentrators". Be sure to get a full sized one. Here is one site I found for Italy. Oxygen Concentrator Suppliers in Italy | Medical Devices
 

Hawk12237

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As Mary @Hankmacaw pointed out, oxygen therapy is one of the best treatments for this condition.
Below, I've taken an insert from one my wife's vet manuals. It's interesting read.


A respiratory condition similar to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) affecting macaws and some other spieces (but primarily Blue and Gold macaws) has been recognized for several decades. These birds often have a history of being housed in poorly ventilated environments with birds that produce large amounts of powderdown (such as cockatoos and African Grey parrots). This does not mean that all macaws must be kept in separate areas from cockatoos or African Greys, but good air circulation and environmental hygiene is needed.
Birds that develop this hypersensitivity may also have secondary bacterial or fungal infections. Your veterinarian may need to do several procedures to determine whether your macaw’s respiratory condition is due to this hypersensitivity or to other causes. A blood cell count and x-rays are often performed. A tracheal wash may be necessary to determine if a combination of these diseases is present, and to select the appropriate treatment. A lung biopsy is the only way to confirm the diagnosis.

Initially, the best treatment for a bird that is in respiratory distress from this condition is oxygen. Your veterinarian may also consider the use of glucocorticoids or other anti-inflammatory drugs. Longterm management requires optimal air quality and ventilation. A good air filter (such as a HEPA filter) located near the cage is invaluable. Repeat crises may occur and necessitate rehospitalization and treatment, but a change of environment and increased ventilation will reduce the likelihood of severe relapse. Some permanent lung damage is usually present, and exercise intolerance often persists due to interstitial fibrosis (scarring) of the lungs. Affected birds may a shorter lifespan.
Polycythemia, an increase in the percentage of red blood cells, is a very common finding on the blood work and may be the best method to screen for this disease before it becomes a noticeable problem.
 

Supernova

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I'm aware that there are many people who swear by F10 nebulization.- mostly in the ME for their Falcons. I can only tell you my personal experience. I was, like you, desperate to find something to improve my birds air sacs (Asper), so the vet said go ahead and nebulize with F10. I did for about a month and never noticed any improvement , but again that was for Asper.

I'm just not up to snuff on pulmonary fibrosis - poor Hank had several issues that were more critical, so it didn't get as much attention as it should have

If you are in Italy, you may want to do an internet search for "used oxygen concentrators". Be sure to get a full sized one. Here is one site I found for Italy. Oxygen Concentrator Suppliers in Italy | Medical Devices


Thanks for your help, I really appreciate.tomorrow I’ll speak with the vet also for the oxygen concentrators and I’ll update the situation.
 

Supernova

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As Mary @Hankmacaw pointed out, oxygen therapy is one of the best treatments for this condition.
Below, I've taken an insert from one my wife's vet manuals. It's interesting read.


A respiratory condition similar to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) affecting macaws and some other spieces (but primarily Blue and Gold macaws) has been recognized for several decades. These birds often have a history of being housed in poorly ventilated environments with birds that produce large amounts of powderdown (such as cockatoos and African Grey parrots). This does not mean that all macaws must be kept in separate areas from cockatoos or African Greys, but good air circulation and environmental hygiene is needed.
Birds that develop this hypersensitivity may also have secondary bacterial or fungal infections. Your veterinarian may need to do several procedures to determine whether your macaw’s respiratory condition is due to this hypersensitivity or to other causes. A blood cell count and x-rays are often performed. A tracheal wash may be necessary to determine if a combination of these diseases is present, and to select the appropriate treatment. A lung biopsy is the only way to confirm the diagnosis.

Initially, the best treatment for a bird that is in respiratory distress from this condition is oxygen. Your veterinarian may also consider the use of glucocorticoids or other anti-inflammatory drugs. Longterm management requires optimal air quality and ventilation. A good air filter (such as a HEPA filter) located near the cage is invaluable. Repeat crises may occur and necessitate rehospitalization and treatment, but a change of environment and increased ventilation will reduce the likelihood of severe relapse. Some permanent lung damage is usually present, and exercise intolerance often persists due to interstitial fibrosis (scarring) of the lungs. Affected birds may a shorter lifespan.
Polycythemia, an increase in the percentage of red blood cells, is a very common finding on the blood work and may be the best method to screen for this disease before it becomes a noticeable problem.

it’s very interesting thank you for posting it.I would like founding an alternative therapy and see if it’s works.
“Affected birds may a shorter lifespan”....it’s very sad.I’ m try to think about the reason for the disease.Maybe the smell of newspapers in the cage?The paint on the wall? I really don’t know.
 

enigma731

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Has he had bloodwork or other tests to look for causes?
 

Supernova

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Has he had bloodwork or other tests to look for causes?
we did everything;bloodwork showed in the white blood cells High monocites and basophili but the number of the white blood cell was in the range.During the therapy they decreased and came back to normal range. Other blood test showed anything abnormal.i feared that without the therapy this chronic disease could go ahead.i mean maybe he is allergic to something that I cannot understand... we’ll do another blood test tonight and we’ ll see.There’s been an improvement but it’s something temporary.Pulmonary fibrosis cannot be cured.I’ d like to try alternative therapy;maybe, as I wrote before in a post, with thyroid hormone therapy.
 

Fergus Mom

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I just wanted to say I hope you can find something to help your sweet Cockatiel get better. And welcome - I don't think there is a better place on the internet regarding birds - lot of wise and experienced folks here. We understand how upset you are, because we love our birds too. I'm so sorry you're going through this and hope Ira will be better soon. :hi: :welcome2:
 

Supernova

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I just wanted to say I hope you can find something to help your sweet Cockatiel get better. And welcome - I don't think there is a better place on the internet regarding birds - lot of wise and experienced folks here. We understand how upset you are, because we love our birds too. I'm so sorry you're going through this and hope Ira will be better soon. :hi: :welcome2:
Thank you so much, i hope we’ll find a way to get him better.I followed this website for a while also to search for some advice in the management of my sweet Ira.
 

Hankmacaw

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I found quite a few articles and studies about Thyroid Hormone Therapy for Pulmonary Fibrosis treatment. This one is the most understandable for the layman. It certainly looks promising.


It is still in the research and clinical trial phase. I hope you can find a treatment for your baby.
 

Supernova

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I found quite a few articles and studies about Thyroid Hormone Therapy for Pulmonary Fibrosis treatment. This one is the most understandable for the layman. It certainly looks promising.


It is still in the research and clinical trial phase. I hope you can find a treatment for your baby.
I think my vet wouldn’t consider it like alternative therapy.I’ll update later in one hour I’ll see him..
 

Hankmacaw

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@Supernova - what did your vet say about the treatment?
 

Supernova

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@Supernova - what did your vet say about the treatment?
We are still waiting for bloodwork especially white blood cells to see if the old therapy worked.But he told me also to buy Fren Pet’s ozonizer and to put in ira’s room to clean and purify the air.I read that this ozonizer should be used only with the pet moving.I don’t live in that room how can I know if Ira is flying or moving in the room?!? Then he wants to give me nebulizing therapy for sixth month and then check with another endoscopy the evolution of the fibrosis.it’s a nightmare I continue reading about people who have cockatiel for ages 24-25 years and Ira is only 10 with this horrible disease.As far as you know is there a famous expert or specialist in avian treatment ? A sort of luminary...
 
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